The Two Towers: Ch 7-8

[00:00:00] Just to start, give me your general overall feelings of the Helm's Deep. What do you think? The chapter or the location? The chapter. It felt like the primest of all the chapters. Really? Yeah, like something about it. I was just like, oh, this is why we're here. Like, it just felt like it was like all leading to this moment. We also listened to it. Yes. And then you probably read it also. I did reread it, yeah. Nice.

[00:00:24] But it was great to listen to because I think it kept the pace going of like the chaos and because I'm used to my own pace. I was like, oh my goodness, we're moving and this is happening explosions. Wait, what did I miss? And it actually felt like I was in the battle. That's kind of sweet. So I think it was good. And then I could slow my pace and reread and soak it all in. But yeah, great chapter. I love it. I didn't slow down reread. Now, did you read, did you watch all of the second movie then? Most of it. Okay.

[00:00:54] We are, we're almost done with it. I really have been enjoying watching it. Nice. And then reading it because then I'm actually more invested. Yeah. Honestly. And I know the characters a little bit more. Except there's some like randomly come up. Because listening to it is hard. Yes. Just listening to it without any, any like context is a really difficult thing. Yep. Because I was even trying to think through this. Visualizing Helm's Deep from the book is so difficult. I thought that too. I was like, what the heck are these words? I thought it like described it so well in the beginning.

[00:01:23] Well, you're an environmentalist. You probably know what a comb is or a coom is anyway. I literally didn't know what that was until the end of the chapter and I still don't know. I just like made it up in my mind. I missed all that. But they spent so much time describing and I was like, this is crazy. But then as the battle went on, I was like, oh, I know where we are. Like you told me about that earlier. So I was like, I literally put that in my notes. Like the description pays off later. Wow. But I think it does. But at the same time, I think I was, I was overwhelmed by the description. Like I think cause early on when they're walking to Helm's Deep, the descriptions are great

[00:01:52] because they're deciding where they're going to battle these orcs. Yeah. And then I'm like, oh great. Okay. So I have like a, my bearings for all this, but still during the battle, I'm like, I understood this. I'm like, I don't know where, I don't know how to lay this out in my head. I don't know how big this is. Maybe I just have more trust in myself that my imagination like has to be right. Well, it was like, I would be imagining it one way and then there'd be a line where I'm like, oh wait, oh, everyone's down there. Yeah. I thought he was okay. Or like something else would happen.

[00:02:19] Aragorn standing on top of something, waving a hand and then arrows, wait, arrows from this side or this side. And then he jumped down an explosion and I'm like, I'm lost, but I know he's safe now. And then on top of that, the thing that threw me off the most out of everything was in the next chapter when all of a sudden there's Fangorn forest is right in the precipice of this. I'm like, how did this get here? Like they all just ran to watch. Seriously. I'm like, what is going on here? How is this forest so close?

[00:02:49] It should be, I was looking on maps and I was like, this doesn't make any sense. And then later I, I like typed it in discord. I was like, how does this, how does this actually logistically make sense? It's like 50 miles in the book. It seems like they just literally walk out Helm's deep and they're like, there's this forest right there. And someone was like, just keep reading. And I did. And I was like, Oh yeah, the trees got up and moved and you know, okay. Okay. Pretty sweet. I liked it.

[00:03:13] Cause I never, I don't think I've read a war scene in anything ever. So I was like, I don't know how that plays out in a book. Cause even like the scenes, like I have read in a war stories, you're following one character through their, like through their little journey, but just to see like a whole city in war. And then you're like popping into different people. I thought it was so interesting. It was, it was fun. And I have to say that too.

[00:03:38] Like I was writing about this chapter before and I haven't read a ton of war scenes either, but this is a really well paced war scene. I thought cause I'm like some, I'm sure I've like read certain books with the war scenes and it's, some of them have been just either really, really long. And like, I'm like, I don't need every little last detail of this. I can kind of picture things in my head. And some of them, they just skirt war scenes altogether. I'm like, they're more primed for movies, but that was until I read Helm's Deep and I'm

[00:04:07] like, Oh wow, this is like actually a riveting war scene. I thought that was great. Yeah. Like the action. Yeah. I missed all the description about Helm's Deep. I didn't. But now you can picture it. Watch the movie. And yeah, now that you described it for me, listen, I don't want to do anything. But I will say too. No, after watching it helps. The movies I think depicted Helm's Deep well. So like if you have, I had that image in my head, but like the characters and the like positioning and the shifting was different.

[00:04:37] I mean, Aragorn's not even in Helm's Deep in the beginning. Oh yeah. Like when it was starting in the movie, he's the ward thing. And then I'm like, that didn't happen in the book. Right? I know. I could have missed it. I mean, lately. That would happen. But we'll keep discussing this, but welcome to the podcast. I'm John. Jen. Danny. And Lizzie. And this is The Fellowship of the First Time Readers. Yeah.

[00:05:17] Um, so let's methodically go through this chapter. Methodically. Let's give you a quick summary of Helm's Deep. I'm really like snoozing in the fucking day. All right. Wake up, Jen. I will assume. No one wakes me up because I need to keep talking. I never wake people up. So true. Uh, Lizzie, you have a summary or? No. Okay. It's all you. The crew retreats to Helm's Deep to make the defense. Uh, and they do make quite a defense.

[00:05:42] The fight was crazy with ladders and explosions and trees and Urkenbrand, uh, but they win gloriously in the end. Urkenbrand. Yay! I don't know why, but I love him so much. Yeah, he's so cool. Comes in on his red shield and he's like really tall. I love that. Um, he was a minor thing. I missed it when we were very minor and then he got mentioned in the next chapter. Then when I was reading it, I'm like, wait, who is he? What did he do? It's like me a few. Yeah. Weird. Weird. At first I thought Urkenbrand was a location.

[00:06:11] I was like, where, where is this? What is going on? But I think he was like the steward of Helm's Deep kind of like, I think he lived there full time as like an honorable guy in Rohan, but that was like his home. Yeah. And then he was gone. I don't know exactly why. Cause he was going out to marshal some of the other soldiers, I think. And then I think he got ambushed. So he was marshaling like a thousand soldiers, a thousand foot men.

[00:06:37] Those soldiers kept getting ambushed, which is why like the whole journey to Helm's Deep felt chaotic. Cause they were bringing reports or like all these orc factions running around and like ambushing these guys. And then, um, that's why Gandalf goes and runs out to him. Cause I think he like knew he needed those men. So he goes running out, but he, I think he, I think you're right. If he was like the warden or the ward of Helm's Deep, that's kind of what I gathered. But his, his physical description is kind of cool, but he's a minor character. Isn't that different in the book too?

[00:07:07] Like Gandalf just leaves without explaining it. And then is that in the movie when he's like, look to the east? Yeah, it is in the movie. Dawn of the fifth day. So he just like very purposefully to Aragorn. Yeah, exactly. In the book. He just dips. He's just gone. Yeah. And it was like really quick. You kept saying that when we were listening. Yeah. What? That he just like, wait, did he say, did he say Dawn of the fifth day? Yeah. There's like no hope there. Just don't know if he's coming back. And I feel like they knew, like he still left with intention.

[00:07:37] He told them what they were doing, like what he was doing in a vague way. And then he just took off so fast. And everyone's like, even if we wanted to catch him, he's so fast on shadow facts. Oh, well, hope he comes back. And they, Aragorn had a lot of faith, but I felt like, uh, Théoden was losing faith a little bit. Yeah. That was actually interesting to see Théoden kind of losing faith a little bit in that. But he's way better in the book than he is in the movie. So much. I love that you said that so much better in the book than the movie. But there was one moment when they were marching there.

[00:08:04] He was like, Oh, I wish I had one of my two counselors here. I'm like, wait, time out. You would want Wormtail. Wormtongue back. That's crazy. I miss now both my counselors, the old and the new. Yeah, like what the heck? How do you miss the old? What the heck is going on in this? So again, it just makes me think Wormtongue really got in his head or like wasn't nearly as bad as Gandalf thinks.

[00:08:34] No, he is bad. We know it. He probably felt like a good person until Gandalf like brought that into life. Yeah. Like true manipulation. It was wild though. That was a wild line. Yeah. Cannot believe that. Definitely. Definitely. Um, this is more a generic question for the entire series. Like just take a step back. I don't know who you guys, who is your favorite character so far? We should have maybe should have done this at the end, but I'm just curious about that because like a lot of characters are popping up and I'm finding that I love them.

[00:09:04] Like Faden comes up and I think he was so much better in the book than the movie. So good. Oh, Mary and Pippin are really funny in the book. Yeah. So she has to turn into the second chapter. I've been enjoying them. Yeah. But favorite. I don't know. And he reads them really well too. Like their little Scottish accent or whatever. He does a great job reading them. Um, it was my instinct, but I wanted to take longer to think about it.

[00:09:35] But same Gimli. Yeah. I, ooh, it's a little controversial. I love movie Aragorn. Book Aragorn's all right. What? That's crazy. Whoa. For real. I think I'm combining them so I can't. Yeah. Yeah. Um, brief support to that. I think he brings up his kingness a little too much. And I think his humility in the movie is what I love about it. Yeah.

[00:10:03] Um, and then it's the little things like, um, in the movies we get him with the horse. He calms the horse down. He's like a horse master, you know, like all the animals. There's an instinct there. There's trust. Then in Helm's deep, he says to Théoden ride with me. Yeah. He's the one in the books. Théoden is the one who comes up with the idea. So it just, he's a little things where I'm like, if I'm honest, book Aragorn is not

[00:10:30] at the level that I've elevated him in the movies. Um, but Gimli is far better. I liked him in the movies, but he is awesome. Yeah. Gimli is significantly better. And I was thinking about this too, cause I was writing an essay on that about character development. Cause the character development is so different and it's different like, like hero tropes. And I was talking about this a long time ago with Nemo, one of our oldest supporters here. Um, and he was saying that like the hero arc was different in Tolkien's time.

[00:11:00] And cause Tolkien is going off of like these old fables and these like epic poems. And when you have a hero like that, the hero just starts off being good. Like their hero's journey is different from what it looks like now. Like our hero's journey is exactly what Aragorn is. Which is like someone who doesn't want to be king. He's very humble. Who just wants to live like a isolated farmer's life or like rangers life. And then all of a sudden he becomes king and he's like great at it. And everyone knows he's going to be great at it. In the book it's different because Aragorn just like, is ready to be king from the get go.

[00:11:27] And it does knock off some of his like humility cause he's not quite as humble in the, in the book as the movie. But, uh, the one thing I'll say about him though, is that like, yeah, I'm like, yes, he seems to desire and want to be king. But at the same point, the descriptions of his kingliness come from the narration rather than like him proclaiming himself to be king. Like there was a one, there was a one spot in this that I loved cause like everyone's just in awe of this guy. So I'm starting to fall in awe of this guy too.

[00:11:55] There's the one description where he like pokes his head over the wall and is like treating with the orcs and the hill men. I'm like, this is a weird section. And then this says the orcs laughed at him, but the hill men were like standing in awe of him. And they were like stunned by how kingly this person was. I was like, that's kind of cool. That's a cool description. Yeah. So there's like something other worldly about him that I kind of like, but I'm the same. I think Gimli is actually my favorite character. And you're going to say Gandalf. Whoa. Okay.

[00:12:25] I like, I want to say Théoden cause I love him in the movies, but I just think having spent more time in the books with Gandalf. Hmm. I have to say Gandalf. Um, what is it about him? I love his like, he's so calm and he takes everything as it comes. Even though I feel like he's the one that knows the most. He's like, we'll see. Like maybe hope prevails. Maybe hope doesn't prevail.

[00:12:54] And I feel like he's never like making anyone blindly trust him either as the leader where he's just like in the, he's with them all, but he knows the most. But then like, I feel like he just balances that so well. You gotta write an essay and you're just your idea of Dumbledore versus Gandalf. That's a good essay. That would go crazy. I should do that. Um, he's, his communication skills need some work. Yeah. Who, Gandalf? Yes. And Dumbledore for that.

[00:13:23] But like, we're just trusting Gandalf cause he's a wizard, you know, like don't put undue pressure on him. Yeah. But if you were leaving a war to go collect people, you at least need to let me know. Like shoot me a text about that. Look at me at West. Exactly. No, I'm with that. That was the hardest part for me to wrap my head around is like, he just, he knows what he's doing and he's like, he knows what needs to be done. But maybe he's doing it to like build their independence. Yes.

[00:13:53] Maybe it's a tactic. And it felt like a movement in the book too, where we didn't know where Gandalf was and we didn't know we were going to come back. And your expectations are so low. Yeah. That like when he comes back, you're like, what? This is amazing. So yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, yeah, because you just talked about Eric. What do you mean? Yours doesn't really count.

[00:14:21] Because I'm not in depth reading this book. It does not matter. No, honestly, I think Mary and Pippin are two of my favorites too. Yeah. Because like, I love their loyalty in the beginning and it just like stays steady and true. I can't distinguish between them still though. Like they're just the same. I'm trying to- I think they're so different. Really? Yeah. I have no idea. Help us out, Jon. Because Mary is the confident one. Someone has brown curly hair. I think Mary. Isn't Mary the confident one? Yes.

[00:14:50] Like he's always like very, the first one to like say something and Pippin's kind of like following along kind of. Yeah. I think Pippin's a bit more immature. He's a bit more of a follower. I think that honestly, I will say their movie depictions are pretty good with like the roundness of their personality, but they're both way more loyal and like way more brave in the book than they are in the movie. But like Mary is a bit more serious, a bit more like grounded. He's a little bit more mature than Pippin.

[00:15:18] And Pippin is like still more of a wild card, but his bravery comes out in crazy, crazy amounts. And he's like, I think their description in the end of the set, the eighth chapter, when Mary is the one that's like still kind of awake. Yeah. Being the door. Yeah. Like knocked out. No, he opens one eye. That is who they are as characters. I love that. That was the first thing that I was like, all right, I'm going to try to start to like remember who's who. Exactly. Where I'm like, all right, now this feels like a distinct moment.

[00:15:47] But even the tree beard chapters, I can't distinguish who said what, who did what. I'm like, I'm viewing them together too much. But now I'm going to try to like lock it in. Mary more mature. Mature. The next chapter is so funny too. And there and the welcoming everyone. Yeah. And that's Mary saying it. Yeah. Yep. And it's great. And it's interesting too, because that actually spills off to the third movie. So you get to start watching the third movie after that, because they actually do have that

[00:16:16] welcome with with the whole company that's coming. And a lot of the lines are the same. It's great. Yeah. Oh, yeah. What did you guys have in this chapter? The wild men. I didn't remember them being a part of it in the movies. So whether they were in the battle or not, I think maybe they were around Rohan possibly,

[00:16:45] but if they were around, I just didn't remember it. So in the extended, there's a scene with them where, yeah, I think I do remember that actually. Saruman is like, he's not, they don't go to the war with them, but he's talking to them and he's like, they stole your lands. Oh, and the one guy goes, man. Yeah. And then they go, they don't show up in the, they don't show up in the battle battle. I'm sure that it's like maybe they must be around. But either way, I love the depth of it there. Yeah, that was cool.

[00:17:09] And I love too, that at the end, like they give them honor and death and the hill men are like baffled because all that Saruman has been giving them is propaganda. Yep. Saying like these, they're like, you know, they'll eat your children and they'll like do terrible things. And they're like, it's all been wrong. Yeah. It's really cool. And I love that they actually give them honor and their death too. Like they, they have a whole burial mound for these guys, which is kind of cool. It's really cool. That's kingly stuff.

[00:17:38] Um, there was some funny stuff that Legolas was saying where I was just laughing to myself because he was saying, uh, but you come for me Gimli. I'm glad to have you standing nigh with your stout legs and your hard acts. I wish there were more of your king kin among us. Um, but even more I would give for a hundred good archers of Mirkwood. So it's just kind of like, I'm laughing that he's like, oh, I'd love to have some dwarves, but not as much as elves though. They're better. Yeah. Um, and that brings up the other point. The elves never showed up. Yes.

[00:18:06] I was like, oh man, this battle is, uh, looking bleak with no elf help. And I kept waiting for them to show up. Well, we didn't get to that part of the movie yet. Um, because there's a lot of Frodo and Sam's. Yeah. Are you skipping over that or watching all that? We're watching it all. Nice. Um, and you'll, you'll be able to keep that in your mind, but I didn't even process until today when we're looking at all the things that were like, oh, three more chapters till the end of the book. And I'm like, oh, end of like book three.

[00:18:34] And then we're going to have book four, which might be all. You have to rewatch all the movie. So all that Frodo and Sam stuff we're going to get to. Um, Oh, they like intertwined. Yeah. They intertwined. Yep. You didn't even notice that the books haven't had Frodo and Sam in a long time. Yeah. Well, I guess that's true. Well, yeah, it's true because the book has been pretty immersive with like this. Yeah. So it just feels like it's all flowing very well.

[00:19:00] Um, I will say though, I am kind of excited to get back to Sam and Frodo. I didn't think I would say that, but I'm kind of pumped to get back to them. Um, but yeah, I like what you're saying with that. I think, um, the, I feel like Peter Jackson, like, saw that. I was like, Oh, that's a good idea. I'm actually going to throw some elves, not from work. Would from, uh, La Florian. And then I just like threw them in there.

[00:19:25] But, um, I actually, what do you guys, what is your guys impression of the kingdom of Rohan? Like what, I mean, just compare it to the movie too. Do you think it's an accurate depiction of Rohan in the movie? They seem way more valiant in the books to me. Yeah. Like the movies was just a big cat and mouse thing. We're like, just flee to the hills and hide. But like, I don't know. They seem so well prepared.

[00:19:54] Everybody seems like they're fighting. And they're also like, I feel like they're just pros. Like they've, I feel like they've just done it before. I don't know. Like there wasn't that much playing into like the, the little boys are fighting and like, you know, like they're all going to die. I don't know. They felt like they had a good, um, stance, like the whole battle. Yeah. There's a funny meme. One of my favorite memes.

[00:20:22] I, I think one of my favorite characters in the books, minor characters is Hama. And, uh, he died. He died. I was like, well, he dies in the movie too, but a ward bites his face off. And I didn't even realize that until he watched it. I was like, Oh, he really does die. Oh, but then did you catch this in the movies? This isn't what a lot of people, a lot of people miss this one. But when Aragorn goes to that one kid and goes, give me your sword. And he tests out the sword. He goes, what's your name? And he goes, my name is Hala son of Hama. My Lord.

[00:20:50] That's Hama's son. Oh my goodness. And then there's like a, there's like a meme where it's like, uh, Aragorn goes, Aragorn goes, there's always hope. And then all of a sudden there's like a picture of Hama, like flying with the explosion in the wall. It was like, they put up in little arrow. This is Hama right here. Like he's dead. It's like so tragic. Oh no. But yeah, that's, I guess that's his son.

[00:21:15] But yeah, I think I'm with you that in the movie they like the kingdom of Rohan seems like a, just a bunch of like people who shouldn't be fighting. Yeah. In the book, it's somewhat the same. Cause they have the same line. Like some either have seen too many winters or too few. Um, but in the movie or in the book, they just seem like a stronger kingdom to me.

[00:21:40] Like in the book, they, it didn't seem like they needed the elves in the movie. Yeah. Yeah. Like here they're fighting and there's like a thousand of them in this keep and they're fighting and they're like holding their own. They're like struggling. Like, you know, it's not looking great, but like they seemed a lot stronger and a lot more able to actually fight than they did in the movies to me. Yeah. In the movies, it was like Gandalf saved them. They would have died without that. Yep.

[00:22:08] But in the book, when I was reading it today, at least I was like, I think they would have won. Yeah. They were just exhausted. Even if nobody else came to help, maybe I'd have to like see what other people think, but that was my impression where they drove everyone back to the dike and it cleared off the whole area between. So I'm like, they retook the entire field and orcs are running. I mean, it seemed like there were a couple of moments that were cowards. So I'm like, wow, these orcs, once there was that shift, they took off. Yeah.

[00:22:38] Um, but I was like, I think they actually would have won this battle even if Gandalf didn't show up. And even if the trees didn't show up, uh, maybe the trees helped with some fear elements. Um, or maybe Gandalf had some magic, uh, coward spell going on, but weren't they made of trees orcs too? So made of trees. No, like how in the movies are showing them being like born out of, out of the ground. It's the ground. I always thought it was the trees. I mean, I don't know a lot about it, but I never, anyways, with trees.

[00:23:07] The only, I did. I'm probably totally wrong. But then I'm thinking if like the trees were, you just said the trees maybe scared them. So I was like, oh, maybe that they came from it and they're attacking them. Anyways. Hmm. Well, it's interesting too. Cause, uh, I think they're part of maybe the reason why they're scared with the trees too, is cause they're chopping them down. Cause they're right on Fangorn's like, or think, um, is right by, um, Fangorn forest.

[00:23:34] So like they're chopping down tons of trees, which is why, you know, the ends march the war. And so when they're going marching the battle, it's like they go and all of a sudden they don't see any trees and all of a sudden they're retreating and they just see a bunch of trees and like those trees are terrified. I would be like, wow, how did these trees get in? I would be so scared. I would be terrified. I can't believe, wait, I really thought they came out of the trees. I thought, no, because I thought they used like, they cut down the trees and they use the whole trunk.

[00:24:02] I was just going to say, I remember there's a little tree goes tumbling against the tree. And then in the trunks, they're like the sack of them coming out. Maybe there's like a different tree. That's funny, yeah. That's what I thought. Okay, wow. Gray area. Okay. Thanks for making me feel better guys. Um, one thing I noticed about the orcs in the books versus the movies is like, to me in the movies, 90% of my fear of them was just like the sheepish. You're a mount.

[00:24:32] How much, like how many there are versus the Rohirrim. But then in the books, they're like hiding and they're playing dead and they jump out. Playing dead, yeah. And then like even talking to Aragorn, they're like chanting and like, I don't know. They have like all kinds of tactics and like, I know they're literally bred for war, but I feel like that was so much bigger. Like you could see that so much more in the book then. Like kind of just thought they were like, oh, they're all just like a big scary crowd of people.

[00:25:02] And they're just like, they're just bodies that you have to get through. But then like this, they had order. Yeah. And I don't know. I kind of love that too, because the whole thing felt strategic, way more strategic than the movies. The movies are like, they hit the walls and they have ladders and it's just an onslaught. It's like, let's get 10,000 people over the wall so we can slaughter these people. In the books, it was like so strategic. Yeah. When all of a sudden like 15 bodies sprung from the dead bodies, I was like, how smart is that? I know. That's ridiculous.

[00:25:31] And then they tried to sneak past that little gray in the culvert. I'm like, that's brilliant too. And they actually were able to manage to do it, but then they held that. They like pushed them back from that. The whole thing felt like moves and counter moves. It was just great warfare, like good strategy, I think. And then, yeah, one of my favorite parts to how kind of is with that is just like the tone and the mood of this chapter where in the book you have or in the movie, you have this like lightning and this thunder that goes off, but then everything is still lit so well.

[00:26:01] Like you can still see everything. I thought it was terrifying with the lightning in this because everything's so dark and all of a sudden they're fighting and they're shooting arrows and all of a sudden the lightning looks like lightning, peels. I'm like, you get a quick glimpse of like this mass. I think it talked about it like it's corn. It's like a cornfield that they're seeing like the engines of war move everywhere. It's like terrifying and then all of a sudden the lightning goes away. The light goes away and it's like dark again. You're fighting. I'm like It was terrifying, terrifying depiction. It's like kind of cool.

[00:26:32] So I was a fan of them. I like that love that that was in here yeah i have actually had that moment written down they turned and ran at that moment some dozen orcs that had lain motionless among the slain leapt to their feet

[00:26:55] and came silently and swiftly behind that's crazy and i love to oh again this was a it continues on it was like my favorite part of this chapter uh two flung themselves to the ground at amor's heels tripped him and in a moment they were on top of him but a small dark figure that none had observed sprang out of the shadows and gave a hoarse shout ruh kazad kazad uh i may knew

[00:27:19] an axe swung and swept back two orcs fell headless the rest fled and were struggled to his feet even as aragorn ran back to his aid like that that's a great uh the fiction of yeah family right there it makes you 10 orcs fled when they watched a single move from this guy i love it he's smooth

[00:27:41] he has a he had a serious battle wound at the end too yeah oh yeah great battle you missed that part too he came out it was a head wound yeah his helm his helm was destroyed his helm was gone a big wound on his head yeah i missed that oh yeah i'm just here to support you guys

[00:28:04] thank you we need that um there was when aragorn was kind of defending the stairs as the last guys were going up to retreat um a few orcs were around or like grabbed him got close and then someone from above i guess threw a boulder down and smashed the orcs and i was just thinking that is an impressive

[00:28:28] throw that nearly crushed the future king you know um but i guess they were using whatever they had cost those boulders good accuracy that one guy threw it and he's like well they make marion pippen do that when they're on uh the end yeah at the end they throw they're so accurate yeah perfect little shooters over there yeah the whole the whole battle was fun it

[00:28:56] was like strategic very good ambiance and like the whole mood was pretty good and then the ending was just great too i loved uh love the ending um why was aragorn so bold to get up and want to parlay with them and all that and then why did he say like now's your last chance for surrender yeah every one

[00:29:22] of you is gonna die what where did that confidence come from i'm like did he know that gandalf was coming back then did he have a reason to be so confident or was he bluffing or well like what was his mentality or was it a last i don't know where i kind of was like it doesn't feel like you're in a position to make these threats so what's the what was his thought behind it honestly i had a question popped in my head too and i came up with a theory behind that one because

[00:29:52] there was another section where it said like the men were very very tired and weary and like they were like dragging and then aomer like jumped into battle i'm like they he reinvigorated the men and i was like i think what aragorn is doing in this instance is just doing this as of like a show to reinvigorate the men because they're dead tired they're like exhausted they don't want to keep doing this and then if aragorn pops up and shows he has like a ton of confidence that they're not going to be

[00:30:18] able to take it and if he's like saying if i'm sitting if i'm there exhausted sitting there on the ground all of a sudden aragorn pops his head over and goes you better surrender because we're going to yeah yeah it's like no one's ever taken the hornberg before i'm like all right he's right let's go let's get out to war let's fight these guys so it was to psych people up a little bit i think it was to psych people up just a smidge like give people a little bit of confidence because i was kind of in the same boat like i didn't i feel like he was saying that out of his butt like

[00:30:46] there was no legitimacy behind that like i'm confident in his ability to kill a lot of orcs but there's thousands that he has to you know mow through yep so i don't know i don't know what do you think about that lizzie you're shaking your head like no good i agree that was a crazy section to me though and he like pops his head over and is actually like talking to

[00:31:10] the orcs i thought that was crazy wild so wild i'm i was kind of surprised that they talked back too like yeah it's like who are you to do that yeah i don't know also i really loved um when they ride out over like the little bridge thing that's like a big scene in the movie but yeah you said it it's like the reverse right where theoden yeah it was like brings it up yeah that was at least

[00:31:35] they'll sing about us in songs if anyone survives this or whatever he says yeah theoden has he's he's an extremist i feel like he always thinks he's gonna die yeah well i did like um aragorn's uh confidence in gandalf he because theoden i forget where it was somewhere in here but um oh yeah he defends him um because that's where theoden says the you know what can we do against such reckless hate

[00:31:59] um i should not have rashly ridden forth to meet um for all the arts of gandalf uh his council seems not so good and then aragorn says do not judge the council of gandalf until all is over so he had faith gandalf was gonna come back yeah and i respect it this is maybe too where i think they got like theoden's depiction in the movies a bit more because he seems not like weak here but he seems a little

[00:32:25] bit more all over the place and he's just like hiding the tower too which i didn't like yeah oh yeah yeah yeah i was like i hope he was doing something up there yeah yeah because who is that who was the guy with him um he was another older guy i don't know what his name was starts with a g because i thought it was similar to gandalf sword um gambling nice gambling was there with him because he was

[00:32:52] like older he had seen too many winters um but yeah he was just like chilling in the tower i guess he was commanding and doing certain things and like but it seemed like he wasn't actively involved in the in the movies he's a bit more actively involved yeah at the same point he's not he's still like hiding in his tower and then he has those lines that i can't stand in the movie where he's like uh is this all you can uh conjure while he stands up there by himself he conjured 10 000 people in a few

[00:33:19] months what are we talking about here something doesn't compute but uh yeah it was great when they uh they rode out cleared the bridge and then one of my favorite lines in this whole chapter there suddenly upon a ridge appeared a rider cloud and white shining in the rising sun over the low hills the horns were sounding behind him hastening down the long slopes were a thousand men on foot

[00:33:48] their swords were in their hands amid them showed a man tall and strong the shield was red and he came to the valley's brink he set through his lips a great black horn and blew a ringing blast that's irkenbrand right there yeah kind of loved him

[00:34:11] yeah i thought he was a good character like he just had this aura to him like being able to muster this many many people like even he he just seemed like he was a legendary warrior they were talking about like his like deeds that he's done and then all of a sudden he comes he's like renowned for having this red shield i'm like that's kind of cool and then he just blows his horn there are a thousand foot men not on horses they all come charging down this hill i'm like it's a cool

[00:34:37] still a very cool depiction i kind of love it in the book you guys have anything else in this chapter i had this one line um the hornberg it was called for a trumpet sounded upon the tower echoed in the

[00:35:03] deep behind as if armies long forgotten were issuing to war from caves beneath the hills and that made me think of like aragorn's army like more than it made me just think of their own army because that's cool yeah and i i don't know it just sounds like is that the dunedane is that what that is oh like what are those ghost people army thing is that what they're called now they're yeah that's what it makes me think of when i read that i want to learn more about them yeah

[00:35:31] the armies long forgotten were issuing to war from caves beneath the hills huh that's really cool yeah and then that was like one little foreshadowing and then gimley right away at the beginning he's like line me up some orcs i'll chop their heads and then he just like kept doing that i was like okay good good job uh-huh exactly what you said you would i like that aragorn said never did i see an axe so wielded yeah about like for him to be wowed by

[00:36:00] gimley's axe moves yeah yeah that was really cool all right let's go on to chapter eight the road to isengard what do you guys think of this or let's do a quick summary of this one this one was kind of all over the place too but gandalf theoden aemir aragorn legless gimley ride through the forest and over river to isengard

[00:36:28] acronym the ents took it over and mary and pippin welcome them perfect i love that this is where i kind of got a little i mean i was confused during the battle a little bit with like the locations of things because he was talking about they were talking about burial mounds like these trees that were there i got so disoriented in this chapter because i didn't know what was going on um but then i looked on this on line for this like the diagram of helms deep and it cleared things up a

[00:36:56] little bit it was just like a hand-drawn sketch on just a piece of paper yeah nice of someone like showing like the this is the this is the dyke they planted some people here some people on the other side there was like a side another little side thing for the hillman and they showed where like the orc rock thing was at the ends all all made that no no uh grass grows on or something like that

[00:37:18] we talked about that later in the chapter but yeah it was hard to visualize but what do you what do you guys think of this chapter what did you have i'm curious what it would be like to read this with no movie knowledge if like how much suspense there would be at this point or if if you've already calculated the timeline and said oh i wonder if treebeard made it over there and vanguard's already

[00:37:44] moved in the forest and i feel like it was like there's that hope of trusting gandalf um and it was fun to read the anticipation but it's like still mysterious um it felt like just an in-between chapter to me yeah but still fun to read i love hearing well i don't want we'll wait till we get there yeah what did everyone else think of the chapter they feel like an in-between chapter i feel like

[00:38:09] just marching from one place to another some of these chapters do feel like that it didn't it didn't like i think this book oriented i keep thinking the same thing that you're thinking like what would this feel like if i hadn't seen the movies or had no knowledge of this i think this would be more of a significant chapter if i didn't know that because this is like the reunion between mary and pippin like i already know that's going to happen in the uh in the book because i've seen the movie

[00:38:36] right i'm excited for that but in this one you don't know if that's going to happen like all of a sudden mary and pippin story the ents are marching down this thing and then they're with treebeard and then all of a sudden you flip the aragorn like his journey and then they're at helms deep and they're going back to orthink so you're like they might meet but all of a sudden at the end of this chapter when they see two figures in the distance it just is like oh that's mary and pippin that it just feels

[00:39:02] so good it feels like oh this is so nice it's like a great ending to the chapter where you have like a little bit more closure there you're like finally they're back together everything's good everything's safe on this department yeah they need to tell like no tie up a few ends they need to meet up with saruman and like you know they need to figure out a few other things but this is where i got a little bit of closure in this chapter which is kind of nice that's what i got yeah the uh the hillman and the dunland dunlanders were actually an interesting

[00:39:32] part of this chapter in the beginning my guy hama says in the midst of the field before the hornberg two mounds were raised and beneath them were laid all the riders of the mark who fell on their defense those of the east dales upon one side and those of the west fold upon the other but the men of the dunland men of dunland were set apart in a mound below the dike in a grave alone under the shadow

[00:39:55] of the hornberg lay hama captain of the king's guard he fell before the gate oh i was sad about that poor hama i know he was my he was my my favorite little minor character there the men of dunland were amazed saruman gave them propaganda i know which is crazy he was just feeding into their like

[00:40:21] insecurities i know uh the people of rohan stirring them up i'm like saruman is crafty he knows what he's doing with that and it's like there's it's interesting too because there's a lot of that stuff in this book even with the rohan people from rohan and they had like the idea that they were selling horses i'm like saruman is a master at weaving these little tales to make people distrust others like i'm sure that was a total tale woven by saruman that they're selling horses um

[00:40:48] to mordor and he's doing this all just for discord and so he's doing this with the men of dunland he's like oh you know they're they've taken your lands you know they're they show no mercy they're like you know evil people and they believe it and then they they're able to do his bidding saruman just weaves people in his hand i kind of thought of that when it was talking about the description of eisingard because like people must have visited him there and it must have been kind

[00:41:16] of like a renowned spot for like the greatest wizard ever and then i feel like it just slowly declined into like this scary place where obviously like orcs are being manufactured i guess so like it is kind of crazy that it's like kind of a ruin at this point but it would have been i would think like a cool place to be and like a cool place to visit and then well there isn't there that depiction in when they're walking through this uh like they go through it and they're like they see tons of

[00:41:44] houses and tons of like structures before they actually see the massive tower i'm like with you because i think it would have been a cool thing to see that but like none of that is inhabited now yeah it's like all orc stuff so maybe that was just maybe that actually was all just where the orcs were living also like how long has it been like this state yeah for right right because maybe that's like way longer than a normal human lifespan already i don't know yeah it's a great question actually

[00:42:15] i don't know spooky yeah definitely spooky yeah it's actually interesting too because i i keep thinking this with some of the movies because peter jackson was originally like a horror movie director and he didn't lean into that any of that with this movie i'm like i he could have directed some of these scenes like even had the battle at helms deep he could have directed a little bit different to like incorporate more horror elements but this chapter when they're when they're going to

[00:42:44] um or think in the movies it doesn't have any of like the eeriness that i i thought it had in this chapter like when they're marching there i mean i guess you just have to like be economical in your time but when they're marching there all of a sudden they see the ford is completely dried up and then all of a sudden they're sleeping and then these like which was i didn't okay they're this i'm guessing that these are ants but like what is this section it says the mist gathered about

[00:43:08] them above them a few stars still glimmered faintly but on either side there arose walls of impenetrable gloom they were in a narrow lane between moving towers of shadow voices they heard whispering and groanings and an endless rustle rustling sigh the earth shook under them long it seemed to them that they sat there and were afraid but at last the darkness in the room were passed and vanished

[00:43:34] between the mountain's arms is that the ants is that some other weird it did not occur to me at all that they were ants but now that makes a lot of sense yeah um i was thinking it was like something more evil but i didn't know what it was like the presence of sauron or something it was like then the whispers i was like what in the world is this or like the final orcs just escaping or something because earlier in the helm's deep chapter at the beginning it was talking about legolas looking

[00:44:03] out to watch the orcs coming and there was like a darkness or a haze over them or something that made it so we couldn't see so i was like is this that defending some kind of evil as it escapes or something yeah but that would make a lot more sense if it was ants and the darkness or the whispers or the gloom was from their sadness of what was destroyed it's like the fog and lost or whatever they call that yeah that's exactly what i thought of like this dark force that's just all of a sudden

[00:44:30] enveloping them so i guess we'll never know what it is then yeah with the way the loss ended like yeah that was a that was a weird section like the whole chapter had like eeriness to it like that like you just didn't know what you were going into and then all of a sudden these mists hit and then like you saw like uh there were um like massive clouds of like vapor that were coming from um or think i guess because that's because they were putting out the fires and they like reopen

[00:44:57] the dams and all of a sudden the ford re floods right like they don't know what's going on right there and then they get there and they kind of figure some stuff out but it's like kind of a creepiest chapter yeah yeah that was creepy but gandalf i think helped everyone feel better he's like yeah don't worry about it wait it out we're gonna be all right so when he said that i was like all right all right i'll trust you gandalf but definitely creepy yeah i'm definitely i'm definitely with you and i've kind of calmed all of them all the people down here wait what did you

[00:45:26] think it was lizzie um i had that thought well i was reading this paragraph and i was about to fall asleep and i was like oh what just happened let me reread that and then i was like i'll think about this as i fall asleep and then i was out so you're thinking about that when you fall asleep wow my first thought i was like i thought it was like some like aura of like the orcs like leaving like the the bad energy of all that place just like fleeing into something else or like going back to

[00:45:53] south sauron no what's the eye sorry yeah sauron like i was like maybe it's all just like like back to like whoever is like in power and then i was like all right let me reread that then i just thought it was the trees leaving but my only thing with it being the ends is like i would think it would be a lot more like raucous and not just a mist because these trees run really

[00:46:20] fast and i was like it would be like an earthquake if they're all just like stampeding by so i didn't know i was like not sure about that but maybe that's like the magic of the forest that they can kind of have this like peace even if they're like they have a lot of energy and strength or they can just like kind of shield you from that and just run past i don't know but i yeah i had either either option but i kind of thought it was like the orcs just like or that the thing that it's like they

[00:46:49] can't be in the sun and like they're sheltered by that like i thought it was that thing but interesting my second thought was the ends and i was like yeah maybe we'll go with that kind of makes sense that it's the ends the ends just in like the dead of night when you can't really see anything because there's another depiction of the ends when they didn't first sees them and like they're on the edge of the forest and all of a sudden these ends come and they're just like the herders or i think that's what yeah what ganoff says and then there's a description of them that i

[00:47:16] forgot exactly what it was but it was like the way they moved they were like swift to the way they moved they didn't just like they weren't just slow and lumbering everywhere i think it describes their footsteps too like it wasn't they weren't like loud when they stepped or something like that i forgot what it was but i thought that was kind of a funny description too because like they didn't it blows my mind that they have never like waiting herons yeah yeah it was a great great they came swiftly

[00:47:45] from the north walking like waiting herons in their gate but not in their speed for their legs in their long paces beat quicker than the heron's wings the riders crowd allowed in wonder and some set their hands upon their sword hills that's a good description yeah that is great that's a really good one i love that legolas wanted to just run into the woods and he could tell even before he saw the eyes there he's like they're talking there's something happening i could learn this language

[00:48:11] he got all like uh woods nerdy about it i love how that's legolas like legolas loves the woods and then gimli hates it it was so great i love that so much and then they were planning their journeys that is so cute i'm like oh goodness i'm like we better get that by the end of this i'm already like build a pony and now a trip for those two back to these places yeah there's a few things i need to

[00:48:36] get tied up build a pony is one and their journeys i'm like that needs to be a movie the the adventures of legolas and gimli or something yeah the way gimli was talking about that cave yeah and it never even occurred to me that that is probably the deep of helm's deep yeah and oh yeah and the fact that gimli is like just going on and on about how glorious this cave was so great and i love that

[00:49:00] he was after legolas was like oh you guys are just ruining like keep working he was like no we just had like a little bit like here and there make it perfect and i also thought it was a well gimli's just the best but all the great like he had a perfect analogy he said it's like you wouldn't cut down trees that are freshly bloomed in springtime for firewood it was like great yeah you're right yeah some caves you mine and some you just wonder at and they're glorious so i was like touche gimli

[00:49:29] he's got some great one-liners yeah honestly that was i love how he described that too um because he's walking from that and he's like oh all of durin's folk would be in awe at this it's like there that would be like a little you know mecca for them for all to just come come there and like pour over it yep and then uh legolas is like i don't want to go there and then he gently just keeps talking about it he's like i'm starting to regret not going to those caves they seem pretty cool yeah and then uh

[00:49:55] there's like okay so like on our way back we'll pass through fangorn and gimli's like no he's like i'll endure fangorn for you if you come to the caves with me i'm like their little back and forth is so cute i love it you move me gimli i've never heard you speak like this before that is so great i don't know if this is like i don't know if you're gonna be with

[00:50:21] me on this or not but i feel like this these little chapters in this book in particular instead of the fellowship of the ring like it's so intuitive and realistic and normal to me like i don't know i was just like i was hiking with my cousin the other day and we were just like we did 10 miles which was like the most either of us a hefty hike yeah we walked past this tree and he's also environmental science we walked past this tree and we both stopped and like look at this tree and my cousin

[00:50:51] just goes that looks like that one wants to talk to you i was like i was like it does like literally it's just like this one random tree and i was like it just made me think of the lord of the rings so much because like how often like i'm in the woods a lot and like i feel like i'm listening to all this stuff and like i don't know i don't like it's not like spooky to me because i feel like oh i recognize that bird i recognize that plant but i just feel like as you write this or as you read it

[00:51:18] it's just as like i feel like it could come so naturally from just your own life your own interest in it but then also there's like the gimleys of the world that are like maybe they don't like the plants maybe they'll like to go like on the cave adventures and like stuff like that um and i hate caves and i can't stand being under caves and then every family vacation we find some like cave to go explore and i'm like having a panic attack wait is this actually you you're saying yes

[00:51:44] the amount of caves i've been in i'm like guys i cannot i cannot go in another one so yeah and then i'll like leave the cave you know we were in hawaii one time and there's this massive cave i can't i can't do caves like they freak me out so i went in and i like ran out i was like guys have fun and then i just like climbed a tree and sat in the tree on the piece and i was like this is so gimley and legolas like it's just like your own um like how you view the world and what you enjoy

[00:52:13] about being outside it's like yeah just written into story and then also the fact that like nature always makes a comeback and always wins like the water coming back and then i was like reading a commentary thing or like watching videos and it's like talking about climate change and like oh the sea's gonna rise like the weather's gonna get worse and it's just like it all is like so i don't know i just love that john muir kind of figure like i feel like there's a lot of environmentalism in this book

[00:52:40] yeah i love that yeah i kind of love that whole idea i feel like uh he's always like lamenting people who are like you know doing the industrialization of war or like you know changing scenery or nature in order to like you know achieve their ends and even like the the characters in this like um they have the discussion about the cave even and legolas is like oh your people would move into this cave and they would like you know make it like it wasn't like it is now like they'd change things they'd

[00:53:09] like a hundred dwarves would come in and like change everything he's like no he's like my people would come in and stare and wonder at this he's like you don't chop down you know young beautiful trees like letters flowering in spring and it's like this understanding that yes the world has to move forward and there's like things that need to change but there's beauty that like the best people in middle earth just sit back and enjoy like you don't change those things you don't chop down

[00:53:35] fangorn forest because this is the oldest forest it's like this is the forest um so i kind of love that that part of what tolkien seems to be trying to communicate here i think he's trying to communicate that a lot in his and they're all like people of the land like the elves love the trees this the shire is farming and you're living on the land even rohan is like it's all about the landscapes and the horses yeah yeah it's good right and then the places that are not about that are the ones that

[00:54:05] are destroying the land metal and wheels yeah exactly exactly it's good ryan says we need a legolas and gimley buddy comedy that would be a great movie a little side comedy with them just their journeys at the end oh that'd be so lovely i was glad that they kind of like went through a little battle i was curious too um gimley comes out injured and he says his number first

[00:54:31] and in my head i'm like i wonder if legolas had more than him but he felt sympathy for gimley because gimley has this big wound in his head and he went lower to give gimley the win because legolas starts off and accounts like 20 20 right off or something like that yeah there's no way he lost and then gimley caught up when he jumped down to like clear out the culvert thing okay but yeah by the end these numbers don't line up and then legolas was doing some knife work or whatever 24 and i was like i that

[00:55:01] didn't occur to me yeah you're right he might have i feel like legolas like knows how to smooth things over and i feel like he's very good and and he seems not prideful to me so for him he maybe doesn't care but maybe i accidentally also think of him as a little bit clueless where he wouldn't even realize that that's a problem he's like oh what i killed 80 is that not is that a lot i don't know um but you're right i like thinking that he was emotionally intelligent and picked up on it that's

[00:55:29] good and then way more people are knocking their weapons than this story than i had ever read before like gimley knocks his axe what does that mean like you have the big you have like a like uh you break it not like break it but like part of the tip so you usually use it and it got yeah i'll show you a picture okay i just thought they were like chipped like from battle yeah i mean

[00:55:55] like chipped like deeply chipped like it's been through but you said it like they do it purposefully but they don't no they don't do it purposely yeah it just gets worn down like he he did it because his stroke fell because someone was wearing an iron collar and so his axe hit this iron collar and then it just like dented or like chipped part of the sharp part of the blade um no i was kind of

[00:56:18] getting sick of the a i think it was aomer and aragorn like kept calling their swords my name i was like yeah it's like again and calling your sword isn't there something better that was a little cheesy too they were like jumping out the battle yeah i'm like they're just nerds that's like what nerds would do and they're real all right all right relax just you know you have a cool sword we all know that yeah it's like i understand why they cut those things in the movie rather than yelling your

[00:56:47] sword's name um you guys have anything else in this chapter we wrap it up um darkness blacker than night on both sides of the river no just didn't get what that was so weird so it said saruman had dwelt there long and had not been idle so it gets back to what you

[00:57:11] were saying lizzie about how long was this thing going on going towards ork land stuff um but then i even just thought how old is he how long has he been there and how long was he good before he started to go bad i'm just thinking about it i would love that too to know like when his fall started to occur like when in his mind did he did he start changing things being like oh i'm gonna go down this path now probably wasn't like this instantaneous moment but i'm curious if something happened

[00:57:38] i like to think that something did happen yeah and it was ring connected like at a moment when the ring either went to bilbo or maybe when it passed from bilbo to frodo like something i don't know why but i like the idea of it being somehow connected where there was like a deeper evil where he was being drawn to the ring and i'm still wondering because didn't it say early on that his nickname was like

[00:58:03] ring maker or he called himself that he called him so it just feels like a weird thing like he might have been in tune with rings already on some level so it'd be kind of cool if there was some timeline that connected it because he does make a ring and it does have some kind of power and he calls himself you know saruman of many colors ring maker i think he calls himself and so it makes me think was he trying to make his own rings of power and yeah some of them actually powerful because then i think of

[00:58:30] galadriel where she said when you have power you're wearing a ring with like the rings can something like see other rings or there's like an increased awareness of other rings then i thought maybe this was all his like wanting to get back to the rings um yeah i don't know yeah it is really cool um yeah i would love to like have an inventory of all the rings i got some people some people did give

[00:58:56] me like some spoilers for some of the rings but like where they are located right now which is a bit of a bummer but it's not like crazy spoilers but it's kind of fun but you're gonna shield us from those spoilers yeah don't worry don't worry at the right moment okay nice i don't even know if it's gonna happen in the book though i like oh yeah i know this stuff like very well so i'm curious if it doesn't pop up i'll definitely let you guys know yeah whenever the moment is right but i don't know if this is going to be in the appendices or i'm guessing i'm guessing there might be some moments

[00:59:25] that come up that we learned that but so did he write the appendices and like planning that to be part of the book how does this work because there's so much information in those that i feel like we need but if you just publish them separately or didn't publish them like i'm so confused i think he published them with the book okay i think at least some of them yeah i can't be sure of that but i'm i'm next to positive because otherwise it's just like you have a incomplete story or like

[00:59:54] yeah yeah and i even like i didn't look this up at all but the instagram algorithm gave me a thing today where someone said his original version of the hobbit was a little different yeah and then he changed it when he started writing lord of the rings because he's like oh i'm gonna have that be the one ring yeah i'm gonna have it be that golem didn't give it up willingly because i think the original version it was a little more willing or something but then the way he changed it was great because it was

[01:00:21] ahead of the story saying oh yeah for a while bilbo used to lie about how this happened but then um the real way it happened is blah blah blah so i thought that was interesting yeah getting a story it's fun now it's deep i'm gonna reread the hobbit after this yeah um treebeard commanded me to welcome the lord of rohan with fitting words so treebeard knew he was coming yeah i'm curious how

[01:00:46] and then i thought did gandalf just say like was it was gandalf just so good at predicting all this so he was there already and kind of said hey treebeard this is what's going on i'm gonna go wrap things up at helms deep we're gonna come over here i'm gonna make sure theoden shows up um because then he's like oh theoden you don't need to i'm just gonna go you can if you want but then so it just made me wonder was it a plan ahead of time i feel like tree or end communication is better than anybody else's i feel like they could just like pass it across trees or something like that so luke system

[01:01:14] right yeah the roots um and maybe that's like the ends did march quicker like all of a sudden trees up and left and then they were the trees were passing in the night i guess if that was the ends so i'm sure there was probably like somewhere that came yeah maybe earlier on about that no you're right that makes a lot of sense maybe he has really good vision i don't know but eagles take a flight real quick end to riding an eagle

[01:01:46] um and then the last thing i had was i liked theoden in his response to mary where he remembered toeballed the old and his herb lore like just the fact that he was even listening and then responding you're just so polite so kingly and he's like yeah well we're gonna talk and there's gonna be no timeline you come on by i'm gonna host you like just like felt great i was like oh man they didn't yeah and he knew what hobbits were yeah so cool our songs don't do you justice like you do so

[01:02:14] much more than that i really like and they were like touched that someone had heard of them yeah it was really cool and they yeah they were so kind and cordial to one another i loved it they were great yeah read an essay about that all right let's wrap it up give me some of your favorites who is your favorite character who is the hot tamale or the basket of mushrooms or whatever that is and what was your favorite moment in these chapters

[01:02:53] i think i gotta say gimley's my favorite because i already already said that and part of the reason i said is because of these chapters um the poetry about caves not literal poems but just poetic words and uh in battle and he was funny um just a well-rounded dude love it yeah um hot tamale is a little bit tougher

[01:03:22] yeah it's like oh man i feel like maybe aragorn um that's partially just because of the movie tamale energy um yeah but him standing up on the on the top and trying to like talk to people and being threatening and saying let's jump out onto the the little walkway and clear orcs like it was it was high energy of tamale in there yeah

[01:03:49] i'd probably give my my tamale to amr yeah a lot of hot tamale energy like he showed himself to be a worthy prince there someone worthy to take over for theoden when theoden dies like that seems like i would follow him he was like very courageous right now um favorite i probably say the same is gimley this was a great gimley chapter i thought yeah i'm gonna go gimley yeah i was gonna say gimley

[01:04:14] for my favorite yes and then i was gonna say i think it's merry for the hot tamale because at the end i feel like he was really holding it together and then was like trying to be all like extravagant and like really respectful of everything he's like yeah yeah like he told me to you know give you a good welcome um i like that part i kind of got the feeling he was not drinking as much wine like

[01:04:40] pippin's like have another glass and he's like no i've got a job to do let me just wait and then as soon as they're done he's like all right good let's party again yeah that's great i think my favorite moment was the um the charge out in the battle um just at the end to kind of win and in reading it feeling like they actually could have won the battle in that moment and be like whoa gandalf didn't come

[01:05:03] save them yeah i feel like they ended the battle right there um so yeah i thought that was great i think that was a favorite moment yeah that's a great moment and i reread the chapter and it still was great so like yeah i could reread it again yeah it was awesome i feel like i'd rather reread it than rewatch it like if i had to choose one pretty epic although i do feel like i need to look at what helms deep looks like again like the because just pause it even in the movie we just got to it

[01:05:32] but we didn't finish the battle so i'm like yeah the layers and the things and the tower and and where's the river coming from and then where are the caves is it behind the tower i was like yeah it's a whole thing yeah i'm a little confused i think my favorite moment was kind of close it was i just for some reason i really liked eric and eric and brand and when he came down like his horn and his red shield

[01:05:58] um so it's like they're pushing him back they kind of won the war won the battle there and all of a sudden they finally get reinforcement and it's like oh then now they're truly gonna win it was kind of cool i like that moment my favorite is probably just the legolas and gimli conversation about the caves and then having to like visit each other and like okay you go to the cave i'll go to the forest i really like that their dynamic is great even with mary and pippin at the end

[01:06:26] like gimli's like oh but the the smoke he's like why are you rubbing in my face and then legolas is instantly like yeah but at their wine too i could do some wine it's great just that dynamic they're just like gimli's balance to it all i wasn't so uh happy right now i'd like you know kill you he's like my anger and my joy you're so mixed right now and then i think was it theoden who was like i can tell like we've run across your friends because just like the way you're talking to each other that was good you guys know each other don't you yeah

[01:06:58] then you got any any stand out well i kind of said it before when mary and pippin are welcoming yeah yeah yeah i can't think of the name um isengard yeah yeah and then like does saruman know that you're here to like welcome him he's caught up oh wait and saruman's like still upstairs i know that's so weird that's crazy with worm but what did mary say something like tree beards in charge

[01:07:27] yeah he's taking over management yes love that he's not in charge oh yeah see that's what i thought was so funny and like clever yeah the end of the chapter it did have some good comedy to it i loved it perfect well thanks for joining us on our journey of fellowship the first time readers see you see you guys later

[01:08:16] flatsam and jetsam you get to learn what that is yeah really jen went ahead it was an accident yeah actually that was a good chapter you liked theirs the palantir yeah it's so good cool no spoilers i almost been done with this whoa only flotsam jetsam yeah yeah

[01:08:46] love that we're just right into the end of the voice of saran yeah to the end of both i think it's just a more chapter later yeah yep blows right into it yeah yeah