The Two Towers: Ch 1-3

[00:00:00] Ziz's mic was not plugged in. We'll do it live. Hello? Can you hear me? Let me check it. Yeah, we'll do it live. Testing, 1-2-3. I think we're good now. Wait, say testing one more time. Testing, hello. I think we're good. Okay. Yeah, so I read the first 100 pages of Dune and it's been so enjoyable and it feels like more enjoyable to me than Lord of the Rings. And I don't know if that's just because Lord of the Rings kinda sat back for like a month,

[00:00:27] but it just feels like I enjoy, like the world building is very different than the world building in Lord of the Rings and I'm just liking it a lot better. And yeah, I don't know. It's just as good. That's wild to me. Maybe better to me. That is wild to me. It's really good. Cause I just finished my actual read of Fellowship of the Ring and I think it's the greatest book ever written. Yeah, and I was like five stars.

[00:00:55] I was like, I love this and now I'm like, I was like, should I put it down to four stars? Like, did I just get too excited? But I don't know. Maybe you're just too excited about Dune. Yeah. Yeah. Or yeah, or it's like the time in between. Whatever you're reading, you just love. Exactly. So, so far so good though. So I'm a Dune. I heard it gets boring later on. I heard, yeah, Dune apparently gets really weird later on. Mark has told me all about the weirdness of how strange it gets, but. It's better than a movie though. Really? Already.

[00:01:25] Yeah. Wow. And there's like, I'm finding differences already. I'm like, Oh, I'm so good at this. Like I just watched these movies. But yeah, my brother and me are reading it. So I'm like chasing up to where he's in the book. I'm really excited to read it. I just don't think I'm going to like it more than Lord of the Rings because I think the outlook on life is totally different from Lord of the Rings. Um, but I'm very excited to read it. So when we do that one, you're going to be our host. Just go right now.

[00:01:52] Me, my brother, you record it stockpile. Sick. Um, but let's get into our discussion of Lord of the Rings. So, um, welcome. Hold on. Yeah. How do I, how do we do this? I welcome to the podcast. Yeah. Welcome to the podcast. I'm John. Hold on. Hold on. I thought you saw me chewing. Sorry. Welcome to the podcast. I'm John. Jen. Danny. I'm Lizzie.

[00:02:21] And this is the fellowship of the first time readers. Um, okay. Before, before we even jump into this, I want to know too, cause cause again, I like actually read this.

[00:02:49] Um, when you're going through fellowship of the ring as we're leaving off into this, cause my moment correlates exactly with the first chapter, because I think one of my favorite moments of the entire fellowship of the ring was just Boromir's character development. Hmm. And when you got to this chapter, I was distraught when I was reading this first chapter cause I, it was so impactful for me. So what was, what was your guys favorite moment in the first fellowship and the first two books? Essentially.

[00:03:19] Can you remember deep in the memory? Yeah, I know. Well, it's kind of nice when we have just this amount of time, whatever it was month and a half. It, uh, it means that when we look back, we've forgotten some of the less important and we focus on the key moments. Uh, the minds of Moria definitely stands out. Um, also the shire time. I could happily go back to the shire for another full book. Yeah. Um, because it was just so magical and innocent.

[00:03:48] Isn't that the Hobbit? Yeah. It's like, honestly, kind of, but even, well, yes, I'm excited to go read the Hobbit again, but even just the time in the shire, like they just seem so chill and the problems are so small and birthday planning. Yeah, seriously. It was just like, just fun. It was, it was the same thing when we were reading, um, Harry Potter. It was the same thing when you just want stuff like in between some of the action, you just want like, yeah, I'm going to classes and then just kind of hanging out. Hmm. You want, I want more moments of the shire.

[00:04:18] I was thinking the same thing. Like even the first chapter was so exciting to me because they're planning a birthday. And I hate birthdays, but it was like so fun. It was like all these little details that were happening that were just chilling. And even the Hobbits of how much they want to go back and actually how them with how much they're fighting for the shire. Frodo in particular, like everything he does seems to be centered around the shire. Yeah. It's really beautiful, but yeah, it kind of like flavors. You're reading of this now, even like Mary, Mary and Pippin on their like little chase.

[00:04:46] They seem like Pippin had that one moment. I think it was Pippin. He's like, why did I even go on this quest? Like, what am I doing here? I'm just like a suitcase or like luggage for everyone. I did. It's also bad for him. Yeah, poor guy. What was your favorite part? Oh, don't. For Lizzie, I meant. That's what I meant. Yeah. I think when they reunited with Bilbo, that whole like time I really enjoyed and like him

[00:05:13] singing the songs and like, He loved the songs. Like the whole thing. You made a video about it when we were like, I don't know if I'll live to see like your chapters. That part is like by far my favorite. But yeah, that was like really sweet because that was a little bit of happiness and encouragement like after the first trials that they went through. And then they've all dispersed and it's back into like hopelessness. It's pretty.

[00:05:43] It's pretty bleak. Yeah. So I really like that part. Hmm. Hmm. Um, so let's jump into chapter one. Uh, let's do a quick summary of chapter one, which is the departure of Boromir. Anybody have a summary? I didn't take any notes. All right. Wow. I'm ready. I got two little things. Come on. Uh, Boromir's funeral and song. The three hunters came up with their plan to go save Mary and Pippin. Mm hmm. Yeah. Great.

[00:06:13] Um, so that one of the books lines and this keeps popping up and I want to talk about this for a bit, but it says Aragorn is on top of a, what's that? Um, what's Ammon mule? Ammon mule. Yeah. Is that the Kings league up there? Yeah. A little lookout. It says he turned from the north back again to the north and saw nothing save the distant hills unless it were far away that he could see a great or unless, sorry, unless it were

[00:06:42] that far away, he could see again, a great bird, like an eagle high in the air, descending slowly in wide circles down toward the earth. It mentions the eagles a few times in this little section. And then it mentions in, in the fellowship of the ring, it mentioned that a few times where there was a fight between two eagles. And then later on, it mentions that Legolas sees these eagles. Oh yeah. Is this, is there any symbolism behind these? I thought that was a Nazgul. Did you guys pick anything up? Really? That's kind of what I thought. You thought what?

[00:07:11] It was the Nazgul, but then. Right here or later? Well, at first I thought it was the Nazgul, but later I thought it said something like he hasn't been released yet. Right. Like it's not their time or something. Yeah. Well, they're not allowed to cross like the river, right? We're not like, not allowed, but like Sauron hasn't let them across the great river because it's not yet again, it's like not their time, but. Is that what he's seeing? Just an eagle? I like that. I like that.

[00:07:38] The idea that maybe he's just mistaking an eagle for a fell beast or like a Nazgul. Hmm. I never thought about that. What is that? Um, they're like little, they're not like dragons, but they're like dragon like creatures. You'll see him when you should have watched the movies. You'll see him when you watch the movies. I tried. They're like, uh, yeah, they're kind of like dragons. That's like my best description for them. I know there's a difference, but I don't really know the difference between the two at the moment.

[00:08:07] Um, okay. Thank you.

[00:08:38] Yeah. I'm fine. Did you just go straight from the end of book one? Yeah, pretty much. Okay. Nice. Like I finished the end of book one. Yeah. I didn't reread a few days ago. Um, would there be any like other just weird symbolism for that? I keep thinking it's symbolism for Aragorn maybe and his kingdom over Gondor. Like I was thinking Aragorn and Boromir some extent like Aragorn and they weren't really fighting, but when they were on the river, it's like these two eagles.

[00:09:08] They're flying in Gondor and it's like these two eagles are fighting. I'm like jockeying for power. Cause really Aragorn has a real power. And then all of a sudden now he's at the top of this Boromir is about to die and he sees just the solitary eagle flying around. And then he sees again later when they're going through Rohan, which is interesting. I just don't know. Maybe I don't want that to be the symbolism because I don't like the eagles so much right now. Why? They just seem a little arrogant. I don't know why they're just kind of like, yeah, keep us out of your business.

[00:09:38] We'll, we'll step in a little bit here and there. Fine. We'll fly someone around, but don't, don't tell us your story. Yeah. Um, so I think I just don't have the best view of them. Um, but maybe that'll change. Like it kind of feels like that even with Gandalf. They're kind of like, well, we'll take you that far or whatever. Yeah. But now they're just flying around to take a peek at things. Feels a little weird. Yeah. Um, so I don't know if they can totally be trusted or if they even are eagles or just a smaller bird that's closer. I think I missed something. Well, you didn't miss much.

[00:10:07] It was like pretty small. Yeah. It's a small tiny detail that I'm obsessing over. Okay. Good. That's all I'm doing now. Yeah. So don't worry. Just small things. That's what we have to deal with. Yeah. I know you guys are. This is what I'm doing. Oh, the book said this weird word and in this little section. What does that mean? Uh, I actually did it. It was a semi-world. I was merging while listening so I did not hear that. Yep. Um, what do you guys think about this whole, the whole vibe of this chapter? What did you think about Boromir's passing?

[00:10:35] Uh, let's just talk about the generals of this chapter. Oh, sad. Yeah. It was much. Well, between this and the chapter with Mary and Pippin, it was like a double whammy of hearing the story of Boromir's death and kind of seeing, I was like, oh man, so sad. But the funeral song I thought was excellent. Yeah. Um, it was like somber and kind of a warrior thing and they honored him.

[00:11:03] Um, and I love that he was honest in his death. Um, yeah. And then if I remember correctly, I'll have to see my note. Aragorn didn't, he didn't tell them that he takes it to, yeah, he's going to take it to his grave, which is great. Yeah. I was thinking about it all today actually, but it's like kind of a funny thing. He didn't tell him that he felt bad. Or letting. Well, cause Boromir was kind of apologizing. Yeah. Like saying like, I couldn't be trusted.

[00:11:31] I tried to take the ring, but then Aragorn didn't tell Gimli and Legolas when they got there. Um, which is kind of noble. Yeah. It's like he was trusting Boromir's deeper character and knew that that was just a momentary thing that the ring made him do. Um, and then Aragorn was willing to look past that and didn't judge him for it. Yeah. And even protected him, um, to protect his legacy. Um, which I thought was cool. Yeah.

[00:11:58] And in these chapters, Aragorn, he keeps getting more complex. Like I kind of like in the movies where he's just the man at all times, but here there are moments where I'm like, huh, he's still figuring it out. Yeah. He doesn't know when to be like, yeah, I'm King. What up? Yeah. Or when to kind of be chill and he, he, he's doubting his decisions. Um, so that's a new dynamic. I, yeah, I agree.

[00:12:28] Reading fellowship. I think part of it too was he wasn't necessarily the outright leader. Like I had like a little discussion or like trying to figure out whether he was the outright leader or not. This is what Wes does to you by the way. He rips the tiniest piece off his bear and wants to play tug of war with it. That's so funny. And like once he wants to play with that. So like you can, I'll throw this little tiny piece of those, like a stuffed animal that he's ripped off for hours and he would love it.

[00:12:54] Um, but I kept thinking that, uh, Aragorn wasn't necessarily the outright leader. I think he was, he was like co-leading with Gandalf almost. And then all of a sudden he's thrust into this role. I think he adopts it pretty well. Like there's a moment when, uh, like I just made a full essay that everyone hated about Aragorn being fully erect when he's going watching the Argonaut. I saw that thumbnail and I didn't watch. I was like, no. That's so funny. That's so funny.

[00:13:21] But, uh, he goes through this and I'm like, this is a kingly moment for him, but I still didn't love him as a character. And this chapter I think was the moment that I actually really fell in love with him as a character because he's so doubt. He's so self doubting. He doesn't know what to do. And he's so nervous. He, he is like all in the air with every, every scene pulling it, getting pulled in every different direction. And then he just makes a decision and he just keeps going and he stays true to this decision that he's making it at the moment. I'm like, I think he's still wrestling whether this is the right decision or not, but he's sticking with it.

[00:13:50] And I'm like, that is the sign of like almost like a man of like a true king. Even if it's might not the perfect decision, you stick with it and you see it through to the end. And I'm like, he's making decisions, which is something that I really love that he's not frozen in indecision right now. Hmm. Like he's trying to figure it out, trying to figure out these riddles that they're talking about. But this was, and then again, he sees, we'll talk about that later, but like a Omar in the next chapter. And it's like, when he starts speaking, it's like a and where become shorter and Aragorn becomes like taller.

[00:14:20] Um, he's like a cool description. Yes. Got her. But I just, I think this is the chapter that I started to really respect Aragorn, even though I, I still love this dynamic that he doesn't have everything figured out. Yeah. He's like very confused. I think it's a cool dynamic. And he's so honest about it too. And he trusts Legolas and Gimli to help him. And so there's just a lot of that. It seems like a better. Brotherhood, you know? Yeah. Agreed.

[00:14:50] I think to me, he seemed like second in command only because he was the closest with Gandalf. Hmm. So he was like in the same boat as the rest of the fellowship. But I was always like, okay, maybe he knows a little bit more or like maybe they've seen something together worked on this in the past. Yeah, that that's why I was like, okay, he's second in command. But they're definitely like the tension of Boromir and Aragorn was like, I think it could go either way. Yeah.

[00:15:18] Especially I was like trying to imagine if Boromir ran into Eomer. And I was like, what would have that like? What would that have been like? Like when they just all like ride together? Yeah. Okay, that's it. Because they were buddies. Yeah. And I mean, we'll talk about that later. But they Rohan has learned to not be dealing horses to shadow. Yeah, which we'll talk about that in a bit. But because, yeah, with one of my favorite moments of Aragorn was what you mentioned to

[00:15:47] Dany and that him he didn't tell Gimli and Legolas about like Boromir's fall essentially, like they still knew that he kind of went after Frodo, but not like to that extent. He really wants to play with you. Come on. Um, but I thought that was a really respectful moment. And then I just everything with Boromir like I thought we weren't going to see the actual fighting of Boromir, which I thought was going to be a really good writing implement. But I like that we saw it through Marianne's perspective.

[00:16:17] But I like the idea that we're like with Aragorn and all of a sudden he blows his horn and then you get there and he already has arrows in his chest and he's already like on the verge of death. That was gutting to me like that. You didn't get to see that, but I thought that was brilliant at the same time. He killed like 20 orcs. Yeah. And then later in the next chapter you realize that Mary was there cutting guys arms off. Which is so legit. Like that guy is so cool. So great.

[00:16:41] Aragorn definitely like preserves the like Boromir's sanctity and like gives him a lot of grace, which I think is good for like the trust going forward. Cause I almost feel like with the rest of the tree, our trio at this point starts like doubt themselves like, ooh, Boromir went down. Like are we, is it going to get me? That's a great point. That's a really great point. They feel less susceptible to temptation than Boromir does. Boromir seems like the weakest of them, but I would say that's a great idea for Aragorn.

[00:17:10] Maybe he sees that weakness in himself too. That because he's a man? Yeah, probably. That's what they all say, right? Well, it's men are weak. The scene where Gimli like just tries to hack it with his axe. That's not in the book, right? Mm-mm. Okay. So I don't know. Maybe Gimli is not going to fall and that was why the movie was like get that out of the way right away. And we would never fall. Yeah, right. He seems so noble. I don't think Legless would either. Yeah, I don't think so. Cause he's so elf and special. I don't know. You took the words out of my mouth.

[00:17:39] Cause I think the next person that would fall is Aragorn probably. Yeah. Uh, I think he's weirdly the next person that's most susceptible to it. Merry and Pippin seem like they don't care about it. Frodo obviously cause he's the ring bearer, but Aragorn seems. That's part of the reason why I love him too much. He's like a flawed leader. He seems like he'd be the next one to go, but he's resisting temptation so well to the point that he wouldn't at the same time. Well, that's where in the movie he had his test right at this scene. Mm-hmm.

[00:18:08] But did that happen in the book? Like I can't keep. Oh, so true. No, that didn't. So because he never interacted with Frodo, right? Because. Oh yeah. Yeah. In the movies he has that scene and you're right. He passes the test. He closes his hand and Frodo is kind of like, well, take it. Which also now compared to the book feels a little silly because it's like Frodo doesn't understand his quest, but he had already in movie end book offered it to Galadriel.

[00:18:35] So it also feels like, wait, didn't you learn your lesson with Galadriel? Yeah. You don't offer this to other people, at least in the movie. So I'm glad he didn't offer it to Aragorn, but then he didn't interact with Aragorn. It was just kind of gone and Boromir had to catch Aragorn up on what happened. Um, I also thought Boromir, he said, farewell Aragorn, go to Minas Tirith and save my people. And I thought, how about our people Boromir?

[00:19:04] I thought he was going to like, you know, kind of create that bond in that moment. Um, and I was waiting for him to call him King. Yeah. Like some kind of something. And then he kind of like, didn't say it. Is it great? But at the same time, I did love this movie death because he, he still dies with dignity and hope in his heart. And I thought that was the most important thing for Boromir.

[00:19:27] And like, I think the movie writing was brilliant in that scene, but I also think the book writing was obviously equally as brilliant because in that moment, he's like telling Boromir he can rest in peace. Hmm. I think that was huge. Like, that's why Aragorn jumped up so high in my mind because he's giving Boromir what he needs and he's like fulfilling promises to Boromir into the kingdom of men that Boromir needed to see. Even though Boromir didn't necessarily love Aragorn as a leader, really. Be at peace. Minas Tirith shall not fall.

[00:19:56] And then he smiled. Like it was like, that's what he needed. He's like, all right, I don't need to hold on anymore. I've told my story. Aragorn's got this. Yeah. I loved it. It was such a good moment. Aragorn always does shout Elendil though, everywhere he goes. Elendil! At first I was, I was talking to people in our discord today.

[00:20:17] And at first I thought, cause he shouted it, I think maybe not first, but he shouted it in the minds of Moria when he's about to jump in with Gandalf who's fighting the Balrog. And I don't know why, but I thought that was a Gandalf's name. Like his like Elven name or like another name, but it's not. Is it his sword? Yeah. No, Elendil is his ancestor. Oh. So Elendil is the father of Isildur, I think. Right. Okay. That makes sense. I'm totally wrong on that, but it's his ancestor in some sense. Right.

[00:20:47] Right. So people were saying that he does that in order to like, it's like prayer almost like calling down like your ancestors. Is that actually like powerful? I don't know. I don't think so. Didn't the elf names do that? Tom Bombadil's name does that. Do the Elven names do that? Didn't they call on some Elf name? When they like cross the river? Am I making that up? I thought they did. Which river?

[00:21:15] You're saying when Frodo was being carried by, uh, what was the name? The man? Aspeloth. Over the river. What? No laughing. I can't contribute. I thought they, at some point they did that with the elf names too. And it was like actually powerful. I thought it was like a song to calm the river. Oh, or two. Or check the chat. Yeah, I know. Give us some answers people. Elbereth. Elbereth. Thank you.

[00:21:43] And she's a valet, which I don't know what that means. Um, but Gandalf's name is actual name is Mithrandir. That's his Elven name, I think. Oh yeah. So I always thought, I thought it was a Lendil for a second and it's not. I think so. I think it comes up in that. In rings of power. Oh yeah. I think it does. Yeah. Did you watch rings of power? Just a big rings of power fan. I like watching things. It's just great movie.

[00:22:13] Yeah. Um, yeah. Boromir's passing was tough in this whole section. I thought it was really well written. Um, what else did you guys have in this chapter? I have one more question, but what else do you have? I just was curious about some of the magic. Like if the, um, if the horn did anything more because everyone heard it and we find out later from Mary and Pippin that the orcs kind of like got nervous, maybe even backed

[00:22:42] away for a second, but then they realized no, no one else was coming. So then they came back in. Yeah. But then I thought was, did the horn scare them because of backup or is there something deeper about the horns power to like increase fear? Um, so one big thing I was thinking about that too. And I was thinking even thinking about that with the name, cause Lizzie was kind of mentioning that is there magic? Like the whole magic system is in everyone talks about this as being a soft magic system, but

[00:23:09] it just leaves ambiguity there to the point where I like, don't want to figure it out, but I want to know some of these details. Yeah. So that fact always the, the names fact is interesting. Like, is he actually calling down with some kind of power? His ancestors, is he receiving power in this moment where he like puts up a sword and then like, you know, lightning bolt hits it. And he was like, or is it just like a hypes him up? And the same thing I thought was, was true for what you're saying this horn. Cause I think it was interesting.

[00:23:37] The detail for the horn is that it's cloven in two after he dies. Right. So did the orcs know that this thing has power and did they, they had to have cloven it into I actually thought of it breaking itself because it was so connected to Boromir when he died. I thought of it as, um, again, I don't know much about this, but I just thought of it more like it was connected to him on some deeper level through some kind of magic.

[00:24:05] And that's what made it so that this is his horn. Um, so yeah, I think it was just like the horn of Boromir. Like this isn't the horn of Gondor. This is, you know, like I don't know if that's its official name, but that, that was kind of my own little headcanon. Um, because let's, I'm just thinking the orcs didn't even kill him. They ran off so fast. Yeah. They, they just left him by a tree. So they came over just to like break a horn in half.

[00:24:33] It seemed, it seems excessive. It seems excessive, but they didn't even finish the job they started, or maybe they're just evil and they wanted him to be in pain. And that was part of their thing because they alluded to that in the next chapter or two chapters where like orcs kill people properly takes a long time. I was like, Ooh, sounds like sacrifice. Um, but either way, I thought, I don't think they broke the horn. I think that just happened. Hmm. It's final moments. I love that.

[00:25:00] The idea that it's so connected with them that as soon as Boromir dies, the thing or like he's slain, the thing just gets cloven into because yeah, it has a little deep connection. I love that. I even love the, even the idea that of like the more natural thing that like orcs likes like close this thing too. I even kind of liked that idea too, because they even realize this thing has power. They're like, we don't have to kill him. He's done. Yeah. We can't, we don't want to face this thing again. Hmm.

[00:25:29] That's cool. Makes me curious if we're going to hear this again. Like if the, if Gondor is actually going to have a bunch of these and, um, I'm curious what the kingdom of Gondor is going to look like. Hmm. I think that's one of the things I'm most curious about. Like I'm, I'm excited that we get to Rohan too. Like we're going to see them in a bit. I'm sure. But I'm curious about Gondor. Um, is Eregorn making the right decision? We say this in hindsight, we know the movies. Right.

[00:26:00] Yeah. How much of this do you remember? I feel like his tracking abilities were fantastic in this chapter too, where he's just like laying on the ground, listening to it. Hmm. That was great. Cause in the movies, I thought they were like a little over exaggerated, but they're not like when he's like, Oh, he, in the movies when he's like, Hobbit lay here and the other here. I'm like, come on. He doesn't really do that. In the books. He's like, he legit does. Yeah. He's like, Oh, a Hobbit ran off course here. But it took them like hours of searching. Yeah.

[00:26:29] And then in the movie, he is just like running around following the steps. So he's a little slower, but I don't think it's less impressive. Yeah. Yeah. His tracking skills were elite here. And then, um, even on top of like his tracking skills, I think him and the decisions that he's making here are just really fascinating.

[00:26:50] Um, because I don't, I think he's, I liked the idea that he still has so much self doubt, but he's just going to see this out. Like even when they're, when they meet the writers of Rohan and they're on this, like they, they pursue these orcs for what? Like four days until they see the writers of Rohan or three days. Crazy. That's like a brutal track. And I'm every single time they're allowed to go to sleep. He's like, I love that one moment. We'll talk about this in the next chapter a little bit too.

[00:27:18] When he's debating between sleeping and between pursuing them. Oh yeah. And then when they wake up, they realize they've like lost them. Yeah. They don't know where they are anymore. So he's like, I think I made the wrong decision. And he keeps talking about that. Yeah. And Gimli is like, we need to solve this riddle. And the riddle is always like, what's the next thing that they need to do? I just thought, I think it's such good, uh, character building for him. Hey, Daniel Wilson, five pound donation. A Brit.

[00:27:46] Have we ever, have we ever watched the BBC interview with J.R. Tolkien? No, but I think we need to. That's on the list. Out to the list. The live watch. That sounds awesome. Yeah, seriously. I wanted to check that out. I'm curious, uh, cause I haven't watched anything with him or seen any bonus stuff, but I am curious like his stuff. He like how he would talk about the books afterwards or during, I don't know when the interview is from, but. Um, yeah, that makes me, I'm curious what he would like.

[00:28:14] Everyone talks about him being like a curmudgeon and how he wouldn't like movies and everything like that. I don't know if he would necessarily would, but I'd be very curious to see what his take on some of this kind of stuff is. Well, yeah. Uh, anything else in the chapter before we go to chapter two? Of course. Good. Um, just one thing I thought was funny. Aragorn, of course he's amazing. So they get down to the river and Aragorn's like looking for clues and he's like, we're looking at the dirt and trying to find things. And then Gimli's like, well, what about their bags are missing?

[00:28:45] I'm just kind of like, I love this. The perfect balance that Aragorn's like on the ground sniffing rocks and Gimli's like, their bags aren't here and one of the boats is gone. So. Cause Aragorn had the one moment where he's like, Hobbit went into the water right here. Oh yeah. I'm like, how the heck does he know that? Yeah. And all of a sudden, yeah, Gimli's like, Oh, nope. We're sending a bag. You know, they don't have one of the boats is gone. It's so good. Yeah. One of my favorites. I love him so much. Um, so I did like that.

[00:29:14] They put all that together. Um, I guess I was kind of wondering like what moment the fellowship broke and it, this kind of felt like that moment, even though I guess it broke as soon as Frodo left at the end of the first, but that's what I love about this chapter. It was such a beautiful continuation. Yeah. It, it just was seamless. Um, which I loved, like, it really feels like you just keep reading. Um, yeah, and that was it.

[00:29:41] And it's something too, with the decision that everyone makes, I'm going to keep harping on this decision because I think it's such good writing because I think one of the most important chapters for Harry Potter too, when we were talking about that was, um, when they come back from, uh, what is it? Gringotts. Oh no, they come back from Malfoy Manor and they're at shell cottage. And remember like Harry has to make a decision if it's for crux or hallows. Oh yeah. Yeah. And he still doubts himself like crazy, but he has conviction over this decision. And that's like the moment he becomes a man.

[00:30:11] I felt similar to this with Aragorn and they has to make a decision right here between Frodo, between pursuing them between Mary and Pippin. And like, maybe he could have gotten Frodo to Mordor faster, but I think he's making the right decision here and going after Mary and Pippin. And I love his reasoning behind it and how he convinces Legolas, excuse me, and Gimli to go after him too. It's like, we cannot leave them. What does he say? And then he's like, we cannot leave them to death and, uh, torture or something like that.

[00:30:40] Um, I just thought it was so good. And he, he makes this decision and he just follows it and he just keeps doing this. And I'm like, it's, he's, it's someone I want to lead or I would follow. And this is a good leader. Yeah. Yeah. We cannot forsake our companions while we have strength left. Mm. And I love just the inspiring, uh, departure. Like, I feel like he's just pumping them up a little bit. Yeah. Pumping me up. Um, with hope or without hope, we will follow the trail of our enemies and woe to them.

[00:31:08] If we prove the swifter, we will make such a chase as shall be accounted in a marvel among the three kindreds, elves, dwarves, and men. And it's funny cause he's saying that meanwhile, there's more than 200 works and Urkai all running. And if they got accosted that they would have gotten slaughtered, which is what Aomir kind of said. He's like, what would you have done if you caught them? Like you three. It was a great moment. Um, all right, let's go on to chapter two, the riders of Rohan. John, what are your thoughts on this chapter?

[00:31:38] This was fantastic chapter. Love this one. It's general thoughts so far. Jen, you're allowed to fade away. Yeah, fade away if you must. Feel free to put a pillow on your head. The hunt for orcs and Mary and Pippin met riders of Rohan tension, but then trust. They got horses found orcs dead. They lost their horses. Weird old man. And then they go into Fangorn. Weird old man. That was scary. That was scary. That scared me so bad. Oh my God.

[00:32:07] I don't like this at all. Well, again, that was a brief moment. Yeah. Just an old man pops out. They're like, what's going on? All right. I guess we're just going to go back to sleep. Yeah. They're like, no, come sit down. I was like, no. That's a terrible idea. There's no one here. Everyone's like, come warm yourself by the fire. And I'm like, that threw me off. I was like, what is he saying? Take one of those vlogs. I mean, so friendly. I kind of like the self-confidence. He's like, okay, there's an old man. Even if he's a wizard, everyone's like, I can take him. He's like, come warm yourself by the fire. Yep. Middle of nowhere. Terrifying.

[00:32:38] So was that Sauron? Do we think it was? Yeah. No, I think that was Gandalf. Oh really? I mean, yeah. Yeah, that's like. But why would he just leave right away though? That's a great question. And why take the horses? Because I think what he's doing is he's maybe drawing them into the woods. I don't know. Maybe there's like some purpose that they have in the woods that they need to go there for some reason. Um. I don't know. The hobbits are in the woods. Yeah, maybe. I feel like. It's a great question. I don't know.

[00:33:09] I think the whole time I was reading this chapter, I was just thinking to how fun this would be if you had never known the movies. You didn't know anything that was coming after this. Yeah. At this point, I don't know if Mary and Pippin are alive. And all the indications that we are getting are so subtext. It's like such perfect writing. And that like, all of a sudden they're pursuing them. They hear and they see their they see tracks. Then they lose the tracks and they wake up in the morning and you're like, did they make the right decision? And that Aragorn can't hear anything. Legolas can't see anything.

[00:33:37] And in my head, I'm going, OK, either they're long gone or maybe the orc are all slaughtered or something like that. If you're reading for this for the first time, I'm like the tension that he builds in this chapter with whether or not they're alive or dead is just top tier. Yeah, truly. And then especially at the ending, because you see this wizard and you're like, he's packing the Fangorn. What? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. It was so good. Oh, gosh. So good.

[00:34:06] But this is one of the first lines that I have in this chapter that I wrote down. It says, I think that the enemy brought his own enemy with him answered Aragorn. These are northern orcs from far away. Among them slain are none of the great works with stone with the strange badges. There was a quarrel, I guess. It is no uncommon thing with these foul folk. Maybe there was some dispute about the road. And one of my questions was, what is the quarrel about? We learned what the quarrel was about next chapter.

[00:34:39] But yeah, the whole intensity to this. There was one other thing that I want to talk about, which kind of correlates to the prior chapter. I have a lot to talk about in this one, but they keep mentioning. So in the song that they were singing for Boromir, they mentioned the east, south and north wind. And they, Gimli at the end of the song says, you left me the west wind. And then all of a sudden they make mention of the west wind being like forsaken at Gondor. Like the west wind doesn't pop up in Gondor.

[00:35:09] And I, what is that? I totally missed that. It's like a weird section here. Let me, let me, I gotta cut this section in audio when I fix this, but. You left the east wind to me, said Gimli, but I will say not of it. Let me try to find it. That is as it should be, said Aragorn. In Minas Tirith they endure the east wind, but they do not ask it for tidings. But now Boromir has taken his road and we must make haste to choose our own.

[00:35:40] What does that mean? Yeah, what does that mean? It's so bizarre. That is so bizarre. And you guys were in book club when we were talking about, this is why it reminded me of this too. But you guys were in book club when we were talking about till we have faces by Lewis. And in that section, when it's like a Cupid and Psyche retelling. And in that section, when she gets tied up, the west wind is like a deity.

[00:36:07] Like she feels the west wind blow on her face and the west wind like takes some kind of form. And it's like a weird fascinating thing. And that's the first time I've ever heard of that before. It was like the west wind is actually taking kind of form. And then it comes up again in this and I'm like, oh, a little connection with the inklings. Maybe they like plan this, but I don't know what it is in their head or in their mind. Or even just literally in this story, if it's an actually, it's probably like actually a west wind. I'm like, well, maybe I'm just reading too far into this, but I feel like there's some kind of symbolism. There's always something there.

[00:36:37] I have no idea. Yeah. Well, I love just even that with the song, like it was a known song and they made up plenty of the lyrics because they're talking about the waterfall is going over and Boromir and everything. But that it's like a kind of a structure of a chant or a song that you would sing maybe even specifically for a funeral. Um, they endure the east wind, but they do not ask for its tidings. Yeah.

[00:37:04] Like maybe they're just just directionally in Minas Tirith. There is not happy tidings from the east because that's like where Mordor is. Yeah. And maybe Aragorn just making a little play on words here. Yeah, but that is fascinating. I know it was just like a random thing that I was like, that seems weird. Let me think about that. Um, Isengard is in the east too. Where's Isengard?

[00:37:34] Well, now it's kind of west of them because they're doing a little, a little loop. Did you look at the interactive map? Actually, I don't know which way they turned. I haven't rechecked. But that threw me off because I'm like, wait, they're traveling west. I'm like, that seems like the wrong way. And it kind of is because the orcs came out to get them, grabbed Merry and Pippin, and then kind of are going northwest back to Isengard. Yeah. So then it feels counterintuitive because they're kind of going back the direction of like Moria and then Fangorn's up there.

[00:38:04] But I guess I'd have to pull up that little map from where we saw online, but interactive middle interactive map of Middle Earth. Because then it actually shows the path, but like that's useless. Yeah, that's so tiny. Yeah. Because Anduin is kind of like it cuts the land in half almost. So they were going down and then they got to Em and Mule. Paths.

[00:38:33] And then they'd be going west to Fangorn or to Isengard. But they went towards the forest to kind of do this. So they go. This is where they stop and they go over Em and Mule. Mule. Come on. Come on. I know. And then so they this is where they're running, I guess. Why is this thing all like that? And so Isengard is east. Yeah, this is their run.

[00:39:01] And then this is where they see the little wizard, I'm sure. Which we don't know yet. And then all of a sudden they're supposed to go down there. And like, you know, this is kind of cheating, but we still know the movie. So we know they're going to do all this kind of stuff. Edirniss and then this is Helm's Deep. And this is Isengard right here. Which I always thought Isengard was a much farther march to Helm's Deep, but it's not. Right. It seems kind of close. It's like scary close.

[00:39:31] What do you guys have in this chapter? I didn't take any notes this time. You don't have any notes in this chapter? I was just reading. I like underlined stuff, but I didn't. Yeah, I didn't take notes. That's what I mean. I feel like this is just reading like a book so easily now. And the other, the first book wasn't doing that so much. Yeah, I'm actually with you. But okay, allow me to speak about Dune for another second.

[00:39:57] Dune to me is like this one I know, like I'm not getting stuff and I know there's so much that I have to reread and get like the lore for. But it's built like backwards where I expect to have a reread. But Dune, I feel like it's building up more like bottom to top. Where like I can understand it. Like you're not missing things. You feel like you're grasping everything in it. Like as long as I pay attention, I'm already like, oh, they just mentioned that. All right, that's interesting. So I kind of like that because I don't feel lost.

[00:40:27] I feel like I have the direction of where we are. Yeah, that's kind of true. As far as like storytelling, it is good. At the same point, I'm liking this too, because it just feels like the world is huge. And like the histories of Middle Earth that he wrote. Like I get excited about it because like he mentions a character and that character has a whole life and live it. They're living and breathing. The whole world feels so much more full to me. But you haven't read Dune. But I haven't. No, no, no, no. I'm saying in this. Oh, okay.

[00:40:51] It feels so much more full to me because like I was I was talking about this and like when we meet Gildor in the first book. I feel like it was like a happenstance and like he already had a full life. And like I feel like somewhere Tolkien wrote about Gildor because you feel like he had some kind of history. He had some kind of battles like you had some kind of lore behind him. And we just didn't know that yet. Yeah, so it feels like I'm just like plucked into Middle Earth and walking with the hobbits and they're like learning about all this stuff with me. So the.

[00:41:21] That's just ripped one. Nice. West. So I feel like I'm like it's a more immersive world to me. Like there's more out there. Like I feel like even though it's a bit more intimidating to get into this, I still like it a bit more. But I haven't read Dune. So maybe when I read Dune, I'll change my tune. I do like that because he gives random names and details sometimes you don't know when the detail is going to matter and when it won't. Yeah.

[00:41:51] And then that meant that the orc chapter, even with movie knowledge, I still was like, wait, these orcs. Are we about to have a like a consistent character of an orc from book to book? Like I literally I'm like, I think there's a nemesis here, you know, like and then you just don't know because you're getting a lot more background than you expect. And then all of a sudden death. So it does keep you guessing because just because you're learning about a character doesn't mean they're going to stick around. So it keeps you guessing.

[00:42:21] So this is where they mentioned that Legolas sees the eagle and he's going. He's very high, seems to be flying now away from this land back north. And I didn't think of any symbolism, but I was just more wondering, are we going to find out what he was doing? He was coming down from the north to do a thing. Now he's going back. What was that thing? Yeah. Why? And maybe they're like scouting. He's coming down from the north and then he's going back up north. Maybe they're just scouting Rohan or or they're scouting more door or something like that.

[00:42:51] Hmm. I don't think they'd be able to see that far. The eagle thing. Yeah. No. Are they really don't have sides, though? They don't. I don't remember much except they were fairly involved in the Hobbit. But it just felt like the way Gandalf talked about the eagles. They were kind of like, all right, fine. I guess we're going that way. We could drop you off like. All right. You know, it just felt a little like they're casual about it. But I don't remember much more than that. Hmm.

[00:43:21] But I accidentally don't love them that much. Yeah. It was interesting, too, because we got a little bit of a deeper dive on Gandalf coming to Rohan for a little bit. Right. Right. He stole Shadowfax. But he only needed Shadowfax because the eagles wouldn't take him any farther. Exactly. For sure. So it's like this kind of like. For sure. But it's stolen. Yeah. Yeah. And then. Yeah, they they he's like not welcome anymore in Rohan. Yeah. That part of me was like.

[00:43:51] When I was going through the Council of Elrond, like looking at his journey was insane because he was he comes off or think or he goes all the way down from Hobbiton to Orthink and then all of a sudden dropped off in Rohan. Or no, he goes all the way down the Minas Tirith from Hobbiton. Oh, yeah. Right. Right. All the way back up to Hobbiton. And then it goes Radagast stops him. He goes all the way back down to Isengard.

[00:44:16] He gets dropped off in Rohan rides Shadowfax all the way up to Weathertop and then to Rivendell. And he gets where he sees like it's like his journey is nuts. Now I'm so curious what the eagle was doing if the eagles. I know. Why was it going from Isengard out to Rohan? That's a great question. Dropping him off in Edoras. That's kind of like it's south east. So then I'm just I feel like the eagles are doing all these things and I just want to speculate what they're up to. Yeah, they're plotting and planning those little little buggers.

[00:44:46] So I also think that Legolas can see 12 leagues. So way to go. Yeah. Eagle eyes guy. What is a league? I was too lazy to Google that even though it mentioned it a bunch of times. I was looking something else, but no, it wasn't. Was it leagues? Holy. Yeah, like a league is three miles. I think I looked that up. Three miles? But then 12 leagues is 36 miles? Is it 36 miles? That's crazy.

[00:45:14] Dude, like you were like, wait, but he saw an eagle from that far? Wait, what does it say? What's it fathom? Many things. It's great company on foot, but I cannot say more, nor see what kind of folk they may be. There are many leagues away. 12, I guess. But the flatness of the plane is hard to measure. So, oh, because he's saying. Oh, my gosh. Ranging from 2 point. There is something moving over the plane. So he sees something moving out over a plane and he thinks, oh, that's probably like 36 miles. Yeah.

[00:45:43] Like, oh, it's hard to tell because it's a plane, but that's. And there's one section where he's like, don't ask me if there's any hobbits in the mix. He's like, I can't pick him out right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could pick him out if they were sitting there? Like what? Are you kidding me? Yeah, that gives some perspective. I'm just thinking of like, you know, when you're up on a mountain, I'm thinking in places you can see far and whatever, but like 36 miles. Yeah, there's no distinction at that point. Like looking at the city from when you're hiking.

[00:46:12] I'm like, that's farther than any of the views that I'm picturing right now. So to be able to see anything detailed is insane. That's awesome. But I've been loving some of the elf lore in these chapters. Yeah, seriously. Yeah. Like what they can do, even his how he sleeps is so funny. Yeah, what? Well, at first I'm like, he doesn't. He's like a dolphin. His eyes are open. That's what I kept thinking. He said he's a dolphin. Yeah. That honestly tracks. They're like half his brains awake.

[00:46:42] He's laying there like, what is it? Hands folded or something? Yeah. Well, there was a hilarious moment too where they like come on green, green earth and then like, let's just take like a whiff of it. And he's like, that's as good as sleep. Yeah. And I'm sure Gimli and everyone are like, what? Like what in the world? Like how do you even relate to someone like that? Yeah. It's like tough to be friends. But then I like the, it's such a funny detail of an elf that I just never thought about where

[00:47:09] they were saying dreams are very similar to reality and memories are kind of like perfect. Like you can relive memories as if you're experiencing them again. Like time doesn't mean as much. So I guess that's like a cool way that that would make anyone ethereal. You're a little, a little like spacey. Yeah. Just like hanging out in your memories for a little bit as if you're like replaying it in real time. Yeah. Like, let's just seem so content. I know.

[00:47:39] He's just like stares off into the sky. Yeah. He is so content. He's just like, yeah, he's, he's hilarious. I think it's weird too. Cause in the, in the movie Gimli is more of like the coming to comedic relief here. Legolas is absolutely the comedic relief. Yep. Like you're like, this dude is not from middle earth. It's from another earth. Um, it's so funny. Um, I also, I thought it was funny. Um, they're tracking, they're, you know, looking for hobbit footprints.

[00:48:07] Um, Oh, where was this? Oh, he's, uh, Legolas says, um, yes, they're quite plain. A hobbit's footprints. Pippin's. I think he is smaller than the other. And look at this. I said, smaller than the other. Does he not know Mary's name? Yeah. I was like, but also they haven't been traveling. That long brain fart. Yeah. If it was ever a name not to know, you know,

[00:48:38] Um, that's like the movie theory that Frodo doesn't really know. Like this is the name. Erick does only knows one of the hobbits names, Mary and crap. What was that other one we have to say? What's that guy? Who are we out here saving? Uh, yeah, we'll talk about Pippin's bravery too. But he was incredible in the next chapter, but the amount of running they're doing is insane. Yeah. And Gimli way to go. Seriously. I love it. He's like, he's like, uh, dwarves tire, but not as, not as much as it works. He's like, I'm, I'm ready to go. We have, we're endurance athletes here.

[00:49:05] And then there's like the, the weighing on their heart. Like the whole atmosphere of the places change too. And they're like slowing down. Yeah, seriously. And I, did they mention later that they felt like that weight was not like it was a supernatural. It was abnormal. It was like Saruman. Saruman is kind of sending negative vibes their way, hitting them with the, with. It seems like he's poisoning the land to some extent, which. Hmm. Isn't that like to shade the orcs though? Or did I make that up?

[00:49:35] So that they could be running. Oh man, great thought. Cause it's like the moon and the stars are like weak. Yeah. Right. And then later the orcs are like, we're going to run during the day. Are you kidding me? And then they were like, yes, Sauron's like, I don't know. Wow. Yeah. I think I, I think I got vibes. I think that was part of it. Maybe it's like, especially potent now to give them like shade, but Urk, I don't need the shade, which is crazy. Which is nuts. Yeah. And then on top of that, the land already seems poisoned. Like when Amor is talking about it, he's like, you know, a fade in this, like, he's almost

[00:50:04] out of his mind now. Um, he talked, he mentioned something that was like a hint. I think we're going to get for green, a worm tongue. He said like something like the council of the King or like the, the people who are giving words to the King are poisoned or something like that. He didn't say that exact word, but, um, it feels like Saruman to me has been slowly poisoning, poisoning this land as soon as he realized he wanted power.

[00:50:30] Um, and so he's been like, yeah, I think it even worked with Gandalf too. Cause Gandalf thought that they were selling horses and there was all sorts of misinformation that was going on there. Um, it was just fascinating. I like the idea that he's like, especially poisoning it right now. So that these, these, uh, these Uric's come back faster. Yeah. I thought it was interesting how Aragorn introduced himself as Strider first.

[00:51:00] And I was like, I don't know. Cause didn't Aomer clock him on that? And then was like, you're not, is that your real name or something? And then he was like this, like his full is Sildur's heir name. But I don't like, then that was a whole moment where he kind of grew up and like, I don't know the confidence. And then you said like the height difference and the power dynamic and everything. But he just said he was Strider.

[00:51:26] And I guess he really kind of was Strider in that moment. Cause he was really like tracking and being a ranger, but then he had to turn into like King King Lee. Bargaining almost like relation. So I don't know. I won't. Or like, is he ever going to be Strider again? That's what I was thinking. I was like, does he just, Oh, is he leaving it behind right here? He's like, all right, I guess that people give me weird looks when I say that.

[00:51:54] And then they were like, Oh, you should be called wing foot or something. Yeah. For that. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. I like that. He was just like subtly impressed about that. He's like, cause at first he was throwing them shade. He's like, you guys are like, how, what did you think you were going to do when you got them? Like you're pursuing them in all the wrong ways. And then when he's like, you know, it took us three days to get there. And he's like, Oh, it took you three days to get all the way from the river to here. Impressive. He's like, okay, wing foot or whatever his name was. Okay. Wing foot.

[00:52:25] That's a great nickname too. I would not want that name. Wing foot. Um, someone at the dog park the other day said, your dog is most athletic dog I've ever seen. And that was like one of the most proud moments I've ever had. Yeah. Um, I like that when Legolas saw the riders, he's like, there are 105. Yeah. Like he instant counted all of them.

[00:52:52] Um, there's, there's a, like a comedic scene and I think it's like Kung power Kung Fu or whatever the movie was. It's like a dubbed movie. And there's like a massive army coming up the guy and he just starts counting. I'm like, what did the, I feel like that was Legolas. Like there's this massive army coming out of it. He's like, what did he, okay. There's 105. Like I just assume he's a fast counter, but yeah, maybe he just took his time, you know? Um, and I love that Gimli stood up for Gladreal again. Mm. Mm. So good. Yeah.

[00:53:22] He, uh, that was one of the scenes, the scenes I wrote down cause I loved it. He defends her. He's not just talk. His life is on the line and he was confident. As Gimli rose and planted his feet firmly apart, his hand gripped the handle of his axe and his dark eyes flashed. Give me your name horse master. And I will give you mine and more besides. He said, as for that, said the rider staring down at the door, the stranger should declare himself first. Yet I am named Aomer son of Amund and I am called the third marshal of the Rittermark.

[00:53:51] Then Aomer son of Amund, third marshal of the Rittermark, but Gimli, the dwarf of Gloin's son, Gloin's son, warn you against foolish words. You speak evil of that which is fair beyond the reach of your thought. And only little wit can excuse you. Aomer's eyes blazed and the men of Rohan murmured angrily and closed in advancing their spears. I would cut your head off. Beard and all master dwarf that stood a bit, a little bit higher from the ground, said Aomer.

[00:54:20] He stands not alone, said Legolas, bending his bow and fitting an arrow with hands that move quicker than sight. You would die before your stroke fell. The even the quick relationship of Gimli and Legolas is beautiful here too. Yeah. Go from hating each other a few chapters ago in Lothlorien to now they're like, he's literally willing to die because there's yeah. Legolas will die if if he if he kills one guy. They're not good at de-escalating. I'll say that. Aomer was like, oh no. Okay.

[00:54:50] Like good thing Legolas was that quick because I feel like in some cases someone might have been able to jump out or maybe this is normal but I was like, this is really intense. Yeah, it's so good. And I love that it was just like the movie though because it's such a good scene in the movie. So I feel like they did it. They quoted it exactly. A lot of people talk about how this book is totally different. Like I made the essay on this, this, the movie and the book differences in the fellowship. There's a few, but there's not like a massive amount of them.

[00:55:20] People say there's so many in this book. This is where it like really goes off the rails and the movies get like, you know, so different. But up until this point they're like dead on. Yeah. It does feel like if you're a book lover and you're watching this movie to start the first like 20 ish minutes are exactly what the book is. It's so good. Very satisfying. I mean, you don't have like the literary, you know, it's like in the first two chapters, you don't know if Mary and Pippin are alive in the movie. You know that after the first five minutes. Yeah. So it's a little bit different, but it's still so very, I think it's very accurate. I think it's good.

[00:55:51] Um, I thought it was interesting on my, Oh, my next page right after Aragorn says who he is. Um, for a moment, it seemed to the eyes of Legolas that a white flame flickered on the brow of Aragorn, like a shining crown. Yeah. And I thought, okay, it clarified Legolas. Yeah. I think that was actual elf magic. Like he is truly seeing a crown. Like it is forming.

[00:56:16] And it made me wonder if we're going to hear from Legolas perspective in the future of seeing that crown more clearly glittering on his head. Um, because those, those happen with, um, I did it happen with Gimli. I think it happened with Gimli potentially in the previous book or something. I forgot exactly what it was. I can go back and remember that, but it happens with a Duren when he looks in the mirror mirror and he sees the crown of stars around his head. So there's something like different and there's something like ethereal and weird about that.

[00:56:45] And that's what I was noting too. When, when Legolas sees him and he sees like this crown around his head. Um, I was the same, I was the same. I was curious if we're going to write more of that. If we're going to see, you know, this crown more, more and more materialized, the more and more he becomes a man. And the more and more he becomes, he actually becomes the king. Um, it's a really cool point. I don't remember where it was at all, but I didn't, it say something about their dreams being like the future, like being able to see that in dreams. I wait, who elves? Yeah.

[00:57:15] Elves. Cause it, I don't remember how it at all, but it made me think about when, um, Arwen was about to leave for like the undying land. And she was like, Oh, like you saw, like we had happiness and we had a child. And I was like, Oh, maybe that was actually like, like, I don't know. That was real or like she really saw the future and it wasn't just some hallucination type of thing. It's like weird in the movie. Yeah. But.

[00:57:44] And even like looking in the, um, you want to call it the mirror of Erised, uh, the thing that Galadriel brought out. What was the thing that is that? Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a mirror of Galadriel. Yeah. Yeah. But I feel like she said something like, you know, you could see the past. Yeah. You could see the future. Yeah. It's a different perspective now. And that's just a different, deeper kind of elf magic, but maybe elves can summon a taste of that at any point.

[00:58:13] Um, or maybe not summon, but it just happens. You just go to bed and you're like, Oh, well, I just saw something that wasn't here. And I think that's real. And, and that kind of connects on a human level where you have dreams or deja vu. And you're like, was that real? Does this mean something? What was this dream about? Why did I dream that? And if you're an elf, then you're thinking this could actually be real. Yeah. Yeah. For this come from. Yeah. Honestly, it's a great point. Yeah. The whole idea of like the dream world and the real world, it like meshes in this really well. Um, it's not confusing, but I like that.

[00:58:43] It's just unanswered. Um, it's a bit more ambiguous, which I think is great. I, the, one of the, the funniest part in this whole entire, uh, three chapters to me so far was when they're talking about halflings and Amber, they're talking about like what hobbits are and Amber goes halflings off the writer that said beside the armor halflings, but they're only little people in old songs and children's sales out of the north. Do we walk in legends around the green earth in the daylight? He's like, these things aren't real. Yeah.

[00:59:13] As he stares at an elf and a dwarf. It's just so funny. I know. I love that. It's so funny. I was like, this guy's out here and not thinking these other things are real. These halflings are real. And then all of a sudden, Oh, it was so funny to me. Like such a funny part of this, the lore here because to him, that's a like mythical creature. It like could be a leprechaun could be anything else, but here we are in this fantasy land as we read, but seeing people have weird perspectives on it. I was, I was laughing at that one.

[00:59:43] It was so good. Um, and then my favorite part or another one of my favorite parts, um, says some years ago, the Lord of black, the Lord of the black land, which the purchase horses of us at great price, but we refused him for he put beasts to evil use. Then he sent plundering orcs and they carry off what they can choosing. Always the black horses. Few of these are now left for that reason.

[01:00:12] Our feed with the orcs is bitter. I was sending memes about this. And people were talking about this on this word because, um, there's a, have you guys seen the Lego Batman movie? No. God. One of the best movies ever made or no, this is actually just the Lego movie. Not the Lego Batman, Batman movie, but that I've seen the Lego movie. Remember when Batman is in the movie and they're all working on their ships and Batman all of a sudden goes, I don't give me all the black bricks.

[01:00:40] He's like, I only work in black and very, very dark. Yeah. This is the Sauron right now. He's like, Oh, that brown horse is going to ruin our aesthetic. We cannot. Exactly. He is. If he's anything, he's concerned about the aesthetics and the look of this. Sauron is a man of order. He wants things exactly his way. That's so funny. Only black horses. It was so funny to me. I love that. And I love that in this little bit of information too, you get the idea that, um,

[01:01:11] they are not selling these horses that they're like a more upstanding group of people than we were led to believe. Um, what does he do with the horses? He just, that's a great question. I actually didn't think he was, yeah, I didn't really think he was like using these horses. Like, uh, people were riding them in any way. I think like the evil use was like, he uses them to like dig out fields or like, you know, he ties rope to them.

[01:01:41] So they can like a bunch of horses and the like, you know, I don't know, take a bunch of dirt out of this. I don't know. It's like not like practical war use. I thought he was going to like crossbreed them into like some evil creature. Yeah. There comes some weird breedy crossbreeding with the environment over here. Yeah. Like some dino horse situation. I was like, I don't know where do orcs come from? Like, that's a great question. Like they're goblins. And then isn't there like some fallen, like elf person?

[01:02:11] Or like, I don't know. I don't know where they, I don't know. Urkai are the, they seem like a weird crossbreed between a few different things. I don't exactly know what Urkai are, but orcs and goblins I think are the same, but they're, I don't know what they, I don't know where they came from, where they come from, where they are. Orcs and goblins are the same? Yeah. Really? I was actually asking people in, in, in different chats and apparently they're the same. They're just the same name for different things. They feel different to me. But this is the confusing, confusing point in the next chapter I will talk about in a little bit, but like how many factions were there at this group?

[01:02:39] I kept losing track of what the factions were. Yeah. I was getting confused. It was, it was all over the place. But, um, um, yeah. Wait, could the horses have been for the ringwraiths? That's also what I thought. But I think he's getting a ton of them. I don't think he's just like, yeah, it's not like nine. It's a lot. Yeah. It's like, you know, 500 as a backup plan and he's like, Oh, your horse died. Jump on this one. And they just keep doing that. Do orcs ever ride horses in the movie? I was going to say, I don't, I don't think so. See that. Right.

[01:03:09] I feel like they probably have to, maybe that's just like the aesthetic of the movie gave. Maybe I'm just discounting that, but I don't know. Maybe like, maybe we'll see that later in the books where like orcs are on horses or riding a horse. It just feels so wrong. Yeah. Although orcs are different in my mind than they are in the movie way different. So true. Because there's the one moment in the mines of Moria, which was like a really cool moment where the orc chieftain gets up and like pretty much like throws Boromir to the ground

[01:03:38] and almost kills. Um, I think he almost kills Aragorn, but I forgot what happened in that moment. Um, or he skewers, he skewers Frodo and then like the whole fellowship gang up and this guy's like, it was almost like his skill was better than anybody else in that room. You seem like he was, they said he was like almost like a full grown man. He looked tall and the orcs. And even in the next chapter seem a lot more intimidating and serious than, than, uh, I think sometimes we, I think initially that they were in the movies.

[01:04:06] And like the communication, they seem much more organized. Yeah. There's different languages. Yeah. That was cool. I was like, they're bilingual. They speak more languages than me. It just feels like weird. I was like, you almost feel like you could reason with them. They're like, I don't know a whole new dynamic. I like deep. Yeah, seriously. Um, you guys, anything else in this chapter?

[01:04:32] We will talk about at the end, just, uh, where this little old wizard comes from or who it is. Um, when it talked about shadow facts, the most precious of all the King's steeds chief of the Miedras, Miedras. Um, I like the sire of their race was the great horse of your role that knew the speech of men. Oh my God.

[01:04:58] And I was like, knows it like understands it or speaks it because either way, very fascinating. And I think that would also make sense if it knew, if it was a descendant of that horse and shadow facts, um, kind of understood more than your average horse would. Um, which I thought was an interesting idea. Well, that's what they were mad at Gandalf for, right? Cause yeah, stop responding. Oh yes. And like, it was wild and untamed. When it got back, it didn't listen to anybody.

[01:05:28] I forgot. That's why. Because shadow facts did return. It lives. Yay. Way, way to go. Shadow facts. Yeah. Um, yeah, it was, it was untamed. It was a while. When did we lose shadow facts? Was it the same time as bill? Uh, could they have been growing out for a little bit? No, like he came back seven days ago from this. I think he sends it back when he gets to Rivendell. I think he is. Oh, and then cause they don't go out with. So they never had shadow facts after Rivendell. Yeah. They don't even want to go with bill because it's, but Sam and his connection is too deep.

[01:05:57] Sam needs his pen. I love it. Yeah. What if that random piece of flesh that they handed Marion Pippin? What if that was bill? Oh, Don't say that. Isn't too much. Are you kidding? I'm just thinking that's like the only option of meat. Yeah. I mean, it does make you wonder what they get. Gosh, that's depressing. What the heck?

[01:06:23] Um, I like that Legolas and Gimli started sharing a horse and they don't even need a saddle. They don't even need a saddle. I know. Way to go. I do love to like his ability to control horses. When Legolas jumps on that thing, it's like, even the men of Rohan were impressed with this. Yeah. You like understood that her horse like tamed it and like that moment it was already tamed, but like, you know, had this connection with this horse. Um, I liked when Aragorn said the council of Gandalf was not founded on the foreknowledge of safety for himself or others.

[01:06:53] There are some things that it's better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark. I love that. It's like, they kind of know what they're in for and it isn't about survival. It's about doing what's right regardless. Yeah. Um, almost at once sleep laid hold on them. I was like, Oh, Legolas is sleeping. And then it went into that whole like weird thing. He just like, Oh, or not really. Is this one the wizard is here? That was the other chapter. Yeah.

[01:07:22] I marked them said Aragorn, but I marked also that this old man had a hat, not a hood. Um, so he's talking about it. Did I underline that? Why is that significant? Wait, Sourmon's supposed to have a hood? Well, I thought that too. I was like of all the things he like, maybe he's just like trying to do that. Kind of lighten the mood with Gimli. And he's like, well, don't worry. Cause this guy had a, you know, a hat, not a hood. But he said somebody, but it also said like an old man hooded and cloaked. I'm like, I'm lost. Yeah. They all see a different version of an old man. Whoa.

[01:07:52] Cause it literally said hooded. And then he says hat, not a hood. Interesting. I love that. I'm weird. Who is this old dude? Maybe he has a hat on under his hood. Double whammy. So is this a legless off? Yeah. Is this coming from? I don't know. I think this is coming out of it. It seems like it's, it's like beckoning them a little bit. Not necessarily. Like maybe beckoning them in. I think it's just like almost messing with them. The horses are gone.

[01:08:21] I don't know if this, this guy stole the horses. It seems like to me, like this guy was like on the edge of the firelight, just like dancing around in the, like in Fangorn and like the branches of Fangorn. Um, I don't know where he comes from. I think, I think the only two options really are Saruman or light or Gandalf. Yeah. I, I would, I would say it's Gandalf, but I don't know. I don't know who it is. Ever since you said Saruman, I'm like, you know, going back and forth between the two.

[01:08:57] Hmm. Anyway, an old bent man leaning on a staff. Oh, cause yeah, maybe I was reading the wrong part. Kind of. It was like what Aomir said. Suddenly Gimli looked up and there just on the edge of the firelight stood an old bent man leaning on a staff and wrapped in a great cloak. His wide brimmed hat was pulled down over his eyes. Gimli sprang up. Oh, they're going legless. Blah, blah, blah. It's funky. Whatever it is. I don't know.

[01:09:29] All right, let's jump onto the next chapter. You guys are right. Just trying to figure this out. I know. The next chapter is the Uruk-hai. Merry and Pippin travel with the orcs, goblins and Uruk-hai until they escape when the riders of Rohan attacked. Merry and Pippin ran into Bangorne before the battle ended. Hmm. I'm going to, I think, do an essay on part of this chapter and like the literary analysis of the whole thing. This felt like maybe the most chaotic chapter where I felt the most lost in the whole series so far.

[01:09:59] Hmm. Other than the old forest, which has the same kind of feel to it. Like I think Tolkien wants you to feel lost. So he like almost gets confused with it. Yes. I thought it was like great. And I don't know that I like some people just chalked it up. You're like, oh, you know, you just not run out writing this section good. But I think this section is so different from the last, like the writers of Rohan section was so clean and organized. I felt like I followed that to a T. Yeah, you're right. And then all of a sudden I get to this chapter and I'm like, where are these factions coming from? What is the debate that they're having with all this?

[01:10:29] And you are getting it through Mary's perspective or no, through Pippin's perspective. Right? I think you're getting Pippin's perspective. I feel like, yeah, it might've jumped. I think. Yeah. Cause Pippin's the one that runs out. And then, yeah. But then most of it, I think was Pippin. So it is, it does make sense that he's confused through this whole thing of where these are coming from. And so you as an audience are also confused. I just thought it was great writing. Yeah. No, that's a great point because it's kind of jarring. It's disorienting. Yeah. Like what's going on. But yeah, that probably is how you're supposed to feel.

[01:10:59] I'm curious now if I'm going to see that in other chapters where it's like, yeah, disorienting. But then when you're back with the king, it feels like organized. You're on a mission. It's good order. What's going on planned? Um. Within the orcs themselves though, there is a lot more order than I thought there was. Yeah. Like they're in their own little groups. Yeah. Their own little, I don't want to say like, governments. But yeah, like they're separate and they don't know each other. Languages.

[01:11:27] So there's orcs from Sauron, Moria, and Isengard. Are there any, are those, are they, is there three? Is there only two? Did I miss something? I think there has to be at least three. Yes. But I just couldn't tell because they kept saying go north. Yeah. So that must be Moria. And they keep using, what was that one term they keep using? Uh. They were talking about like a town. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I, I didn't know like, is that a Mordor town?

[01:11:55] Is that like, I'm going to see what I underlined. But at first I thought it was someone's name. And then I was like, what is this place? Is this some other leader? Do they all have the same orders though? Cause like the one. But it kind of seems like no. Cause yeah, the one, I don't remember his name, was saying like, don't mess with them. Don't search them. Ugluck was the. Ugluck. And then yeah, he was like killing people. Or a gluck. I was trying to figure out who they were in the movie. Ugluck is the ones with Isengard. He's the Uruk-hai. And he has the group of Uruk-hai.

[01:12:25] And then there's, there's a few that are coming from Moria and they seem like they want to do their own bidding. They seem like they're not a legend. They're like, yeah, they're freelance warriors. But what were they doing? Just trying to get vengeance. Revenge. Like that was literally it. They're like, you killed our brothers, which is also kind of crazy. Then you almost feel bad for them. It's like, they're just hanging out. They've been there for a while and all of a sudden people come charging in and kill people. They're like, whoa, what's up? Yeah. And then there's some from Sauron here too.

[01:12:51] And that the guy I think from Sauron's camp is the main, is that Grishnuk? Yeah, that I think so. Because he wanted to take him talking about the Nazgul. Yeah. He was talking, talking about the Nazgul, talking about taking him to this one little like weird city. And then the other guy was like, no. And he's just chopping heads off. It was the tension in this was just crazy. It was weird. A winged Nazgul awaits us northward on the east bank.

[01:13:22] Going at once to Lugbors. Lugbors. Yeah. Weird name. Yeah. So weird. And I was getting confused between the three and who was on each of those sides. And then there was a point where it felt like they were starting to split up a little, like someone was running ahead, but then they came back and then it felt like someone was in the forest. They went to the forest. But then they came back. And I was like, whoa, these guys. And what were they doing there? I thought some of them were going to be left over.

[01:13:53] Even when Merry and Pippin left and they went to the forest. Right. They said they're like looking at the battle and like they're looking at it from like a clearing or like a hill or something like that. I was like, they're getting close. Yeah. This is bad. But then some of them had already come back. And so it was just intense. Yeah. It was all over the place. But I think that again, I think it's a great bit of writing because it's this small little dude that you can't like see, you know, the full world on. And they're just like, you don't you just get his perspective. It was great writing through his perspective. I loved it.

[01:14:22] And then I'm curious what this is. This is another question that I had about the magic system. So we talked about like, you know, names, but this, this liquid that they're using. Yeah. Bill's blood. Lizzie, no. But that would be super powered. Dude is perverting your mind. Save the liquid. What is that?

[01:14:51] Is it just alcohol or is there any magic behind it? Oh, there's gotta be. I don't want to. Yeah. I feel like it's something gross. Like a concoction. Fair point. It works, but it actually works. I know what I thought it was going to have negative like side effects. Yeah, but it doesn't feel like it did. It also feels like they legit healed Mary because he had the gash on his head or whatever. And then they smeared something on it. But it says he has a scar there for the rest of his life.

[01:15:21] A scar forever. Okay. No, but still it healed it up. Instant healing. Yeah. And so whatever this magical healing thing, it works on orc skin the same as hobbit skin. So this is universal medicine here. Right? Orcs are getting universal health care in mortal life. Yeah. Which I just didn't anticipate that they would even have medical things. Yeah. Seriously. Orcs are traveling around. You got a cut. You do this. Well, we're going to lop that arm off if it doesn't heal.

[01:15:49] Or like maybe a part of me even wondered if they can heal. Yeah. Like orcs seem like if you're not healing, you just like staple something closed or whatever. Yeah. Disposable. But again, these are the urcs that are healing. The urkai that are healing. So they're a little more sophisticated. They're from Sauron, right? I was giving them this stuff. He makes some potion for them. I feel like, but this still makes me think that orcs from Mordor are, they have some of this in some measure. Yeah. Sauron's obviously powerful, but how does he treat his orcs? Sauron seems like he's treated decently well.

[01:16:18] Well, maybe the orcs are disposable and then the urkai they're trying to save. Yeah, that's true. That's great. It's a great point. I don't know. I like that they called Boromir a great warrior. We slew the great warrior. Yeah. I know that you're like, they're heaping praise on his name. I love that too. Even in the previous chapter when aomer learns of Boromir's death, they're like all the rioters were hunter. Like what is Boromir was like buddies with them and like he was a fearsome warrior. Yep.

[01:16:47] I love I also I don't know why because I'm tall. I love the details about Amor being tall and Boromir being tall. Right. These are the tallest of the group. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting too because Aragorn is not as tall as them. And this is like it's like a near biblical line of like, you know, it doesn't matter about the man's the height of a man. It matters about the stature of his heart, I guess. And Aragorn has that and Boromir had that. You know, I still think he has that. He's still one of my favorites. Amor I still think has that.

[01:17:17] He's like a kingly like very regal, but he doesn't have it in the same degree as as a Aragorn. Aragorn like says something and all of a sudden he shrinks in power and Aragorn rises in power. It's like these guys, it was like the literal height. You can like their aura. It's just fascinating stuff. I love it. Yeah, absolutely. Hmm. But yeah, this this concoction that they're drinking is so bizarre to me. Very curious if there's like magic behind this or something.

[01:17:48] Maybe it's like elf magic that they've stolen stolen. Stolen. He's don't want it from us. Stolen it from the lady. A few comments on Pippin. Is. Well, first of all, is Mary going crazy or is he just making Pippin try to laugh? Because he has this one thing where he like puts the brown stuff is a scar to the end of his days. And all of a sudden he goes over to Pippin. He says, hello, Pippin. He said, so you've come on this little expedition to where do we get bed and breakfast?

[01:18:17] Is he trying to make him laugh or is he actually crazy as trying to make him laugh? OK, yeah. But wow, that'd be really sad if he's actually like being affected and kind of going. Yeah, maybe this medicine is like making him. That's an interesting thought. I don't think it is. But at the same point with Pippin, I also think. Like his plan to act like Gollum seem that threw me all dumb to me. I'm like, what is he doing?

[01:18:43] Yeah, I was like, he's talking about a deal with Grishnook and he's like, he's like, you're going to want what I have. And I'm like, what is he? How? What is he? What's the plan to mention this? Because you don't know that he knows. Yeah. I mean, also, he was like getting groped at the time. So you can tell if you're looking for something. But still, I'm like, don't mention the ring to anybody. Don't even hint that there is an object of value. The Gollum thing threw me off, but it might have just been a desperate like thing.

[01:19:13] And it comes to mind. He's heard the stories from Bilbo. He thinks it could keep him alive more, but they were already keeping a lot of him alive and they kind of knew it. So yeah, I didn't quite get that. It didn't seem to make the most sense to me. Yeah. And did the orcs know they were looking for a ring? Like, did they actually? I kind of didn't think any of them knew and smart too, because theoretically would any of them have taken it? Yeah, probably. Like if you see the ring. Oh yeah. Yeah.

[01:19:40] Although the Urkai do seem somewhat loyal because they're talking about a weapon. Why would they just look for this weapon if that was the case? Right. It's like we have instructions. But they told them not to search. We have to. Yeah. Don't search. Bring them back. We're going to do it. That's what he's talking about too. If they had the ring, like I'm just curious what would have happened or would it have gone? That's one of the biggest questions I have for this whole thing is, I mean, we were talking before about the temptation that everyone would have if they had the ring and all of them would eventually fall.

[01:20:11] Everyone would eventually fall if they had the ring. But then that's like good people falling into evil, like Galadriel, who seems like one of the most pure beings. The only person that I think wouldn't is Gimli. You know, Gimli is the best. You wouldn't ever fall. But what happens if it's put in the hands of someone bad? If the Balrog got it or if the Watcher in the water got it? Whoa. Like there or there's like it seems like these creatures are getting pulled into the power of the ring. Like if an orc got it, what would happen? I don't think it's in glad you're a mentions is to like you have to have immense power in

[01:20:40] order to be able to wield the power of the ring. So I think only beings like I think if an orc on it, it wouldn't really know what to do. It wouldn't really have power to be like have no effect. Yeah, I think. Yeah, I don't think it would really have an effect. I think it would have some effect. Like it may be make him a little stronger. Like it would increase like, you know, some of their own natural abilities a bit, but I don't think it would do much, but it would just use an orc maybe to get. Yeah, exactly. Critter with more sentience or whatever. It's like the almost like the Elder Wand.

[01:21:09] I feel like in Harry Potter, like it's like almost using people in order to get to a stronger master. Right. You kind of feel like that. It like chooses its allegiance in some way. Right. Wow. Joe Rowling stole a lot from Lord of the Rings. Ooh, people are giving me height order. Wait, Aragorn is nearly seven foot. I thought he was tall. What? What the? How is he? I totally missed that.

[01:21:39] That's really tall. Wait, what is the height? Should they list it out? Say he's nearly seven foot tall. He's taller than Gandalf or people are asking questions. Oh my goodness. I'm like, he's sounds like a tall tail. Nice. Nice. I'm curious where that comes from. Also, I guess as Aragorn looked to stand taller next to Aomir. We already know Aomir was the tallest of the bunch. Yeah.

[01:22:05] Is he actually growing in height as he grows in kingliness? I like that. Because we've seen this a few times where he's like getting a little taller. Like... Aragorn 6'6. Aragorn 6'6? Is that movie? Elendil 7'10. Hobbits 4'1. 7'10. Kim Lee's 4'6. 4'6? That's actually taller than I thought. Oh, in the film.

[01:22:34] Boromir 6'4 in the books. Gandalf is... I'm taller than Gandalf in the books. How tall is Gandalf? Oh my goodness. 5'6". What? I have never pictured Gandalf as like 5'6". Because his hat adds like a foot and a half. True. But in the movies, I think Ian McKellen's kind of tall. Aragorn 6'6. That blows my mind. Yeah, that really does.

[01:23:00] Because I think the movies have hit me in some subconscious ways, you know? Oh, no. Ryan, our pun master goes more like Aragorn. Nice. Nice, Ryan. Love that. The pun master. Viggo Moritz is 5'11". Wow. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. 6'6". That's tall, tall. What else do you guys have in this chapter before we wrap it up? I don't know. I accidentally read the tree weird chapter. No!

[01:23:30] I thought we were reading four and it's so good. I can't always say that. It's so good? Yes. Cool. It's so good. Because this is one of those things that I've heard was a boring set of chapters with the trees. Well, I just love trees in general. So maybe it is boring. I don't know. But you know what? I don't think I'm going to be bored with any of these chapters. I'm loving it. There's a lot of dialogue. And reading slow but enjoying the pacing. Yeah. So good. Dialogue is good. Because I remember your brother said that at the beginning. Like the second book is totally different. Yeah.

[01:24:00] You might get bored at certain times. Yep. I don't think I'm getting like, I even when I was going through the first one, I was like, it's actually some people sometimes they are boring. I'm like so enamored by they're so good. Right. So. And even like the tracking. You had mentioned it was a little slow listening and but I don't mind it. I feel like I'm just diving into the world. I don't mind sitting there and whatever the thing is so and all the other books excite me to like, I can't wait. I just keep hearing things about the children of here in. Hmm.

[01:24:30] Someone said, I think I saw like a thumbnail video for something that popped up my YouTube feed that was like, oh, it was a girl who doesn't Jess of the Shire. She does like Lord of the Rings video and I think she called it the Game of Thrones of. I think I'm talking and I would like that. So fascinating to me, like a bit more complex of this like politics and the world and everything like that. Yeah, I think I'd like that. Any other any other points? No, there's Lombus.

[01:24:58] There's red sunrises, but they never said that the blood is. Although he said they've run as if the very whips of that master were behind them. Yeah. And then one of the points that was most disappointing to me was in the book. Aragorn doesn't break his toe when he kicks the helmet. Oh, yeah. I was very bummed about that. I love how playful the hobbits were after they got away, like immediately like kind of

[01:25:28] pretending, although now wondering if they were going a little crazy, but like they're kind of pretending like they're on vacation almost again. Like I forget what they were kind of saying, but they're just keeping it light. Like, oh, we're just walking around. Let's go to the forest. Somehow able to joke even after all this. Yeah, honestly, I think that's huge. That's that's actually something that I was. I think I had that as a note in one of mine to like a Aragorn's ability to know the morale

[01:25:57] of a group or just like, oh, yeah, I think that's fantastic. Or like even the hobbits ability to just joke in certain situations. I don't know. I feel like for Tolkien, like a language nut. I think he knows the importance of some of that. And one of the last questions I have, though, is when they're being pursued by Grishnuk. It's like an arrow that seems like they say the arrow hit him.

[01:26:26] And then it's like I think there's a line in the book where it's like it's as if it was guided by fate. What do you guys think about the role of fate in this book? This is like a question your high school English teacher asks you. What is the role of fate in Lord of the Rings? Because there's skill or guided by. Yeah, right. It seems like there's some kind of push and pull. Yeah.

[01:26:54] There's that part where the horse jumps over. Mary and Pippin, too. And it was one of those moments like like, did he see us? Yeah. Well, yeah. Now it's for their elven cloaks, too. Like they were almost disguised for it by their elven cloaks. And I love that the writers were on almost blew by the trio because they were wearing their cloaks. But there's something to me that just seems interesting about like the whole fate idea in this.

[01:27:21] It almost seems like there's like the subtext of the gods are like jockeying for power. And it's like, you remember you guys have you guys seen the Hunger Games? Yeah. Or when like the there's like the donors and they can like send gifts to their tribute. Yeah. It's almost like the gods are doing this. The gods are like, oh, I'm going to change his arrow. So it hits him. So like, you know, they can get away from that. Just a little nudge in the right direction. They just give them like small nudges. But then it seems like there's other like I don't know if there's evil gods in this world

[01:27:49] or realm, but like it seems like there's forces that are pulling the ring into the hands of Sauron. And both of these are just like opposed and like Frodo is caught in the middle. Like almost every member of the fellowship is like caught in the middle of being pulled between one side or the other. Is fate guiding them? Or is it just happened like random happenstance and like this chance? And it's an interesting. I think it's an interesting dynamic in the book. It just feels like things are just happening by. Fate. Fate.

[01:28:17] And I like the magic of that. Yeah, exactly. Like even just the idea of like when the horse jumped over them, they're wearing elvish cloaks and no rider would have seen them. But I like thinking that the horse has an instinct that's beyond what the man might be able to detect. A little bit of magic there. Yep. And fate. Yeah. So cool. Anything else? Where you touch on wrap, wrap some things up.

[01:28:45] Um, I just got a praise a mirror a little bit. The third Marshall of the mark. Um, cause he dismounted and fought a luck sword to sword. Yeah. Just like sick. I feel like he had other options, but he's like, no, I'm doing it this way. And we're as honestly great. He's one of my favorites right now. Part of the reason, cause I love Boromir so much and air more blood Boromir as well. Like he was praising him, but I loved like his stature. Like I know he's talking bad about glad you're all, but I have like this weird.

[01:29:15] Love tension with all these characters. Like I'm starting to like, I love Gimli. He's my favorite. So I'm like anybody who was opposed to Gimli. I hate, but then aomer is opposed to Gimli in some ways because he's opposed to Galagio. Like it's like a weird little love, but I feel like he even longer than trying to little apology to them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He did have a little apology. Like he was kind of like, what did he say? Something about like learning how to speak more kindly of the lady. Like, yeah, it was like, he was trying to throw an apology in there and he trusted them

[01:29:45] and gave them the horses. I guess I was kind of like, I like him. Yeah. I like him too. I think he's a great character. Dude, I'm excited for Théoden. Yeah. Same. That's like my most anticipated character. Whoa. All right. Let's do. You could just still do a basket of mushrooms. Is there any other gift? Is there any other thing? The gifts of Galadriel. Yeah. Right. Like, is there a thing or we just say gifts of Galadriel who gets the golden hair?

[01:30:13] Oh, I love when they were like, I wish we had the light that she gave Frodo. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, that's so good. I love that. That was great. Um, so let's go over what our favorite moment was in these three chapters, our favorite character. And then who wins the, uh, hairs of Galadriel, which is the hottest character. Oh yeah. Right. That's what we're doing. The hairs. Is it like the hot tamale word? I don't know.

[01:30:42] You do whatever you want. Yeah. It's going to take longer to settle into the right ones. I do something different each time. All right. We'll do the hair of Galadriel. Hmm. As what? The best. Like the hottest character. Oh, the hot tamale. The hot tamale is just the hair. The hair of Galadriel. Yeah. The hottest character is Galadriel is a babe. That's so cool. I'm giving that one. My favorite. He's like, I think, okay, so I'll go. My favorite character in these was Aragorn.

[01:31:11] Um, just his ability to make decisions and figure things out and just plotting down the course. He knows he needs to go down. I think that was so admirable. Um, my favorite moment was his meeting. Ooh, actually his respect that he gave to Boromir is probably my favorite moment. Um, and just like the whole ending that you had with Boromir was just supreme. But then I also loved his meeting with Aomer and Aomer is my hot tamale or my hair of Galadriel.

[01:31:39] He wins the hair of Galadriel award because I think he was just like a fiery person. I don't think we've seen a person quite like him before. I loved his stature. Um, he just seems like he commands the respect of the people in his unit. Like he knows even what to do. Like he sends these writers away and then he has a smaller conversation with them. And it's like, he knows how to command them. He knows like the, the feelings of this group right now. Um, so I really like him. Those are mine, my words.

[01:32:10] Oh, am I next? Yeah. Um, I'm going to say Aragorn was my favorite character. And my favorite moment was also with Aomer, the riders of Rohan. I think actually the battle, like the tension there, uh, it's close. Yeah. Or when they first met, but like the orc fighting and running around the chaos of all of that, them lighting their fires on the outside. I liked all of that.

[01:32:37] Um, then hot tamale, um, Pippin. Oh, good one. I think, uh, just keeping it lighthearted and trying to, uh, run away and then leaving signs for Aragorn and kind of that trust to the hope that someone would be following them. Hmm. I thought that was a pretty great. I like that. Okay. I hate this.

[01:33:05] Um, my favorite character is probably Aragorn. Yeah. Um, favorite moment. This is so stupid, but this is my favorite moment and I'll say it when he lays down on the ground. That was so cool. Why is that stupid? No, because my first thought he said something like, like the earth is like hating like the, the feet that trot like some of that.

[01:33:31] And I was like, if I wrote like a really like sinister Lorax movie, like I would use that quote. I was like, I need to write. Cause like the Lorax is my favorite thing ever. You should rewrite the Lorax. I was like, yeah, by Rolex and really like serious evil version of the Lorax. So that was my favorite moment. Favorite character. Hot Tamale. I don't know. Hairy Tamale. Hairy Tamale. Hairy Tamale. I don't know. Hairy Tamale.

[01:33:57] Um, the guy that shows up at the fire. Mystery man. Whoa. That was really, that was cool. I don't know. Yeah. Is that everything? Yeah, that was perfect. Nailed it. You know, when Gandalf's five, six, it starts to make more sense that he could be the old man by the fire. Yeah, for sure. It's actually true. That's a great point. Cause I, it feels like that couldn't be his description. You know what I mean? It's like, uh, agreed. All right. Dang.

[01:34:27] That's kind of cool. Well, thanks for joining us on our journey of the fellowship of the first time readers until next time. Yeah. Yeah. One of the last comments. Haha. Look at all these dorks. I found my people. Yeah. Love that. So tree beard. What are we gonna do? Three chapters again next time. Yes. The next three. Tree beard. The white rider.

[01:34:55] And the king of the golden hall. Oh. This is chapter. Ooh, yeah. Cause that'll lead us right before. Maybe we can watch. Yeah. Sneak him in. Yeah. I'm like, well, we'll do it in like two weeks. The next one. Watch him. Watch him. Let's do it. Let's do it.