Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban: Ch 19-22

[00:00:00] Welcome to Harry Potter and the Second Time Readers. Alright, close. Welcome to Harry Potter and the Second Time Readers. I'm Jon. And I'm Lizzie. And... Nope, you messed it up! So what do you say? Welcome to the podcast. Oh, welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the podcast.

[00:00:26] I'm Lizzie. I'm Jon. And I'm Lizzie. And this is Harry Potter and the First Time Readers. Okay, wait. Say it again? Just say it right. You go, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jon. But you can go, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jon. And I'll say, I'm Lizzie.

[00:00:38] Okay. What do I say after that though? And this is Harry Potter and the Second Time Reader. Okay. Actually, you say that. I'll just say, welcome to the podcast. And then I'll say my name and then you just go. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Jon.

[00:00:54] And I'm Lizzie. And this is Harry Potter and the Second Time Reader. We did it. That took way too much time. I've heard you say this like 30 times. And it's not...

[00:01:16] I forget what I say for the intro all the time too, so you don't have to sweat that. Okay, we are in the last four chapters of Prisoner of Azkaban. Exciting. I know.

[00:01:28] So chapter 19 is essentially a continuation kind of of the last three or the last two chapters, which are Moony, Wormtail, Paffa and Prongs. And Cat, Rat and Dog. A lot of things going on there.

[00:01:42] But the Servant of the Dark Lord is kind of just a continuation of that, but they just rehash the story again. And then the Servant of the Dark Lord appears. Who is the Servant of the Dark Lord? Pettigrew? Ding, ding, ding. Nailed it.

[00:02:05] You got any notes in this chapter? Yeah. First of all, the trio is so hard-headed. Like they do not want to listen. They do not want to hear this out that maybe these full-grown men who knew Harry's dad actually have like good information to share.

[00:02:23] But I'm like, I would have just sat there and listened to the story and then decide if I want to kill Sirius or not. I wouldn't have just been like, you killed my dad. And he doesn't even know how to kill him. I know.

[00:02:36] Harry is going in guns a blazing and he doesn't even have any guns. He doesn't know how to kill him. He's going to kill him with his bare hands, which is actually a little terrifying. I thought he might like accidentally explode magic again.

[00:02:49] And then I didn't know if he had the capability to kill with that because Aunt Marge got pretty damaged by his accidental magic. So I was like, if he really has like a death wish, like he really wants Sirius dead.

[00:03:06] I was wondering if that could actually be directed enough that Sirius would die accidentally. That's a great question. Dang. I mean, because you never really see accidental magic happen. And this is maybe the strongest emotion that Harry's ever felt probably at this moment.

[00:03:27] So why isn't he just like, you know, not just like, you know, just doing magic, but he experienced, he did that when Marge just insulted his mother. I'm sure he's experiencing a lot more emotions here. So why doesn't he do that with Sirius?

[00:03:39] And I thought he might be crossing his fingers that it happened, you know, like, please, like, let me get angry enough and like, maybe something will happen. Shoot lasers out of his eyes and like slice them in half or something, you know? Perfect.

[00:03:51] I don't know if that was what I was thinking about. Dang, I've never thought about that. They don't know how to kill anybody yet. Yeah, that is ridiculous. He doesn't know how to kill anybody. There's certain moments in this that I love because even in the previous two,

[00:04:05] you talked about Ron's broken ankle or broken leg. And there's still a moment when... A little note card in here. There's still a moment in this where Ron, he casts himself between Sirius and Harry.

[00:04:19] And says, if you kill Harry, you're gonna have to kill us first, which I love. Ron has a broken leg and he still steps in front and like protects Harry. That's beautiful. But Harry doesn't know how to kill any of them. Hermione doesn't know how to kill.

[00:04:31] Ron doesn't know how to kill. None of them really know how to kill. What does the note card say? It's so confusing. These are not full sentences. Was that first time or second time? This is the first time. No, this is the second time. Second time, my bad.

[00:04:47] I think I'm just working through what's happening in these chapters. I think this was like an idea flow to make sure I was on track. Basically, Black and Lupin know that Peter Pettigrew is guilty. He told the secret because he's been hiding.

[00:05:04] And then the Dark Wizards hate him because he led Voldy to Harry and Harry destroys Voldy. So the Dark Lords, the Dark Wizards hate Peter Pettigrew because Peter Pettigrew led them to Harry and Harry destroyed their lord. Clearly I haven't solidified that train of thought yet.

[00:05:31] I'm really working through that. I was really confused at the same time. There's just a lot to work through in these chapters. Lupin slaps back at Hermione though. He's really sassy. I have to find it. Which chapter is this? 19. Yeah, because he's like... Hermione's guessing stuff.

[00:06:02] I just remember him being mean to Hermione and I was sad. Wait, this is 18. This is the servant of the Dark Lord Voldemort. He might have been mean. He was probably mean in the previous chapter. Moony, Wormtail, Pats, Wutton Prongs.

[00:06:27] Maybe I just didn't look at any of my notations for 18. This one's upside down. Dumbledore encouraged the rumor even now the house has been silent for years. Villagers don't approach it. Again, Dumbledore lying if it benefits himself. And this is when Snape appears.

[00:07:02] It's a little tough because they come in waves and they have to rehash a lot of the stuff that they previously talked about. Or you feel like they have to do a little bit. But Snape was listening in the background.

[00:07:19] I'm trying to find where you were talking with Hermione. I feel like I know that but I can't think of where it is. I'll find it later. What do you... Not that you have to fully get it or understand the story completely right now.

[00:07:48] Do you understand what is going on in the story? Your question is still why is Voldemort after the parents? Do you have any theories on that? I think maybe James is powerful. But I don't...

[00:08:07] That seems like more of an issue when they're at Hogwarts and there's rivalry and you're existing in the same world. But after Voldemort is Voldemort, like Lord Voldemort. I don't understand why he would still want to kill James because he just feels like a normal person.

[00:08:25] And Voldemort has already achieved more. All of this just seems like old dirt that everyone's digging up. But I don't remember why. It's going to be a good one when you come to the part where they actually do a little download of that. It's going to be fun.

[00:08:44] The secret keeper thing, that's another thing we'll talk about more in book 5. So we'll get there soon. Anything else in this chapter before we go on to the next one which is an intense chapter? Snape like tattletaled on Lupin as students. And Dumbledore was like, shut up.

[00:09:08] Doesn't matter. Didn't happen. Good night. That's crazy to me too. That Dumbledore is like... I guess that Snape has to carry this the whole time because Snape could have still just started spreading new rumors. Like if Snape... Snape knows Lupin's a werewolf.

[00:09:29] I don't know how much everybody else does but at any point he could have just like come out and start saying stuff. But I guess maybe his career is in jeopardy at that point. Yeah, he like accidentally let it slip. Oh yeah, to the Slytherins.

[00:09:48] So I guess the only reason that he never did that is because of his career for the last however many years. I don't remember how old anybody is. That's a...

[00:09:59] Lycanthropy is a really interesting one because the Wolf's Bane potion does like calm you and like lets you stay sane. Or not stay sane, but like sane-ish. But like allowing a werewolf to teach is really fascinating.

[00:10:16] It's not like some of these other things that we talk about like these diseases. There is a negative stigma obviously attached to being a werewolf. And it's not necessarily the truth. Because Lupin's a great guy and he's a werewolf, which is a little frustrating.

[00:10:27] You're like, okay, why can't the wizarding world not have negative opinions of werewolves? Like when this comes out you kind of wish like the wizarding world was like, oh that's fine. He's still like, you know, great.

[00:10:39] He's got a good heart so we're gonna keep letting him be a teacher. But it's in such an uproar that he's a werewolf that he leaves immediately because he knows like the ruckus that it's going to cause. And that kind of hurts me a little bit.

[00:10:50] I mean that's like at the end of this book when you kind of learn that he's like leaving because it was leaked that he is a werewolf. And Snape was the one that did it out of like a little jealousy and spite.

[00:11:00] So again, it shows Snape's immaturity where he hasn't dealt with some of the things in his past. And like he still hasn't gotten over his like high school immaturity. Yeah. That bothered me because I thought once everybody knows Lupin's a werewolf they might just accept it.

[00:11:15] Because his character is so there. Yeah. And it just could be public information that Lupin's got to go take his medicine and chill out in his room. As long as he's on his meds he's good. Yeah. Especially I think you could convince parents like you could.

[00:11:30] I don't think they go tell this story to everyone but if everyone knew the full story they might be a little more inclined to let their kid be under such great teaching. I know because he really is the best teacher that they've ever had. I found the line.

[00:11:46] Hmm. Not at all up to your usual standard, Hermione, he said. Only one out of three I'm afraid. And like he's saying he has not been helping Sirius get into the castle. Certainly didn't want Harry dead. But. I took that as like a joke. What are you saying?

[00:12:05] Not like a dig. Like he's like Hermione you're smart but like you missed like bummer you missed on on on everything here. You didn't get everything right. There was a ringing silence. Everyone's eyes are now upon Lupin who look remarkably calm though rather pale.

[00:12:21] Not at all up to your standard, Hermione. Yeah I guess I kind of I can read that like that too. He's just joking around. Hmm. OK the next chapter is the Dementors kiss. Which we did have a side discussion on. But this is essentially when they leave.

[00:12:40] They transform and then all these Dementors come about to give Sirius a nice little smooch. And the Patronus is cast. They don't know who cast the Patronus.

[00:12:51] I remember reading this for the first time being like after chapter 19 being like how am I how were three more chapters going to come from? Where is she going to go with this? Because you get some great stuff right after this one but the.

[00:13:03] Chapter 21 is a great one which we'll get to in a second. But wasn't it crazy when your mind shifted? I mean I think we talked about this before but how your mind shifted from Sirius you hating Sirius and thinking he's like the worst.

[00:13:16] All of a sudden he's asking Harry to stay with him over the summer. That's the sweetest moment. I love that part. Because Sirius is your favorite. Why is Sirius your favorite? I just love Sirius his personality. I love the way he talks like the.

[00:13:32] Way that she words his sentences I don't know he's like sassy and funny but he's also like seems kind of mean but like I kind of like that. You like a mean guy? No. I've learned my lesson. We don't want that. Everyone learns the hard way.

[00:13:53] But yeah I mean Sirius remains. I like him. What do you think about this? I mean we talked about this before in brief but the Dementors kiss. So again I want to bring up this conversation a tiny bit but the Dementors are ordered to kiss this person right?

[00:14:10] That idea was not keeping me up at night but it was making me think the other night. What is their responsibility? What is Dementors responsibility in upholding order? In an ideal world what do Dementors do and what do they look like?

[00:14:27] Do they just live in their natural habitat in misty places and suck the soul out of people? I think they do.

[00:14:36] I think in the wild they're just out there and then they sense nearby magic and then they go to the forest and they get to kiss this person.

[00:14:44] And then they get to kiss this person and then they get to kiss that person and then they get to kiss that person.

[00:14:48] I think in the wild they're just out there and then they sense nearby magic and then they go to its source and they suck out the happiness from the wizards and stuff. I don't know if they're kissing people in the wild.

[00:15:01] Don't go kissing random people on your hikes. Rule number one, don't kiss random people. In the woods. I don't know because I've not found an instance so far where they're just kissing someone because they want to.

[00:15:15] But also the ministry has been in charge of them this whole time. So I can't really say that they wouldn't. But this feels like they are. But Sirius is there and they were ordered to kiss Sirius. Yeah, which is really dark. It's really dark.

[00:15:37] And it's like this is making me reconsider my reading of this too because it just shows how dark the ministry is at this point. Because you know the ministry is a bit idiotic in this book.

[00:15:53] This is the book especially where you're like the ministry doesn't know what the heck they're doing. But they're more dark than anything else because they're using these creatures for their own good. It's like almost like the Colosseum. It's like you don't blame the lions for eating the people.

[00:16:10] You blame the stupid people who built the Colosseum and threw other people to lions in the Colosseum. So it's such a fascinating theory to me. Dementors are almost like a lens right now through which you view the morality of people.

[00:16:25] And it's so fascinating because you see the ministry and they're a bunch of idiots because they're using dementors. They're evil because they're using dementors to their own advantage and gain.

[00:16:34] But then you don't see like obviously this is great but you don't see people from the quote unquote good side using dementors. But their opinions of dementors are wrong about dementors. Their opinions are really of the ministry.

[00:16:46] They talk about these things being inhumane and how like they're evil creatures. But really what they mean is the people who are ordering these creatures are the inhumane and terrible people. Who means? Like the general?

[00:16:57] Like Dumbledore. We talk about Dumbledore saying that these creatures are like vile and evil. And Sirius has this opinion. You know like Lupin has this opinion that these are some of the most vile creatures to exist. It's just it's just thrown me for a loop a little bit.

[00:17:15] But you just said the ministry is evil for using the dementors. Yeah exactly. So that's what I'm talking about. I don't think they are. The ministry it's like I said it in the dementor debate.

[00:17:27] It's like a symbiotic relationship where both can actually benefit from the ministry using dementors. Because the ministry gets to use their justice which is another topic of how should criminals be punished or do you believe in like kind of the death sentence.

[00:17:42] Yeah. But then they're also keeping tabs on the dementors rather than all of them just running wild. And then also the dementors get like a taste of happiness every once in a while and they get like satiated I guess.

[00:17:57] So I don't like that. So my that that's where I would probably draw the line to the difference between us between dementors is that I don't think that I would like.

[00:18:07] I don't love symbiotic relationships with with maybe this is going to point out another flaw in my thinking with what are more intelligent versus less intelligent creatures. To me there's no symbiosis between those two things like house elves and humans.

[00:18:25] There's no symbiosis between those two things. There appears to be symbiosis but there's not in reality because wizards are just essentially abusing their powers with this thing. The same thing that I think with dementors. Wizards are just abusing their powers. So now you're arguing for dementor rights?

[00:18:43] Yeah absolutely. Wow we have come full circle. No this is what I think. I think that dementors should be left to their own devices. They were found on you know they're found they are the products of like wizard of wizard wrongdoing though.

[00:19:02] That's another one that's weird to me. That's the thing is if you look at it more of like a spiritual thing that it is bad because it came from a bad place.

[00:19:11] That kind of changes the angle a little bit. But I don't know it's still not really their own doing. They just got to eat. They do just got to eat. I don't think the ministry is evil for using them.

[00:19:31] Would you say the same thing about like us if like our government was using bears to go maul people who did something wrong? Think about the elephants in the Lord of the Rings. That's a great example. Elephants are a bit more kind creatures maybe.

[00:19:53] It depends how abundant the creature that we're using is. That almost seems more inhumane too because like there are I mean they're in the like elephants are you know herbivores. They're not eating meat.

[00:20:05] So it's like you're making these creatures who don't have a ton of violence in them. They have protection in them be violent for their own gains which that seems wrong. I don't take it as a issue. Because like canine police dogs military dogs.

[00:20:21] Dogs are dogs. Dogs have a natural bent to protect their pack. I've heard of I've heard I don't know if this is actually legitimately true but I've heard that dogs like a dog thinks that he's is whatever he is in the pack.

[00:20:37] So like my dog right now Wes thinks he's a human because he's in a pack with me. I don't think that's actually true but dogs have a pack instinct like Wes is hunting instinct comes out every once in a while.

[00:20:47] We'll go on a walk and I'll see like deer sometimes we'll just shoot after them like crazy like it's hunting drive just comes out even like like there's other little things that I have like where I see his hunting drive come out like crazy.

[00:20:59] He's a dog. He's like meant to hunt. That's what his nature is like. And it's a weirdly interesting line but someone in this book says it is not in a dementors nature to be understanding or something like that.

[00:21:17] Yeah to understand like excuses or bribes and stuff which to your point makes them really intriguing. Justice people I don't think they're just as key risks. I don't know if they can differentiate that.

[00:21:31] But like can I add to on your point of if you're using an animal like if a government's using an animal. The thing is with dementors you're never putting them in danger. They're never going to be negatively affected by you using them.

[00:21:47] How do you know because they're soulless. Are they just souls. Like they're so dark I don't think they could ever be.

[00:21:57] I don't think they're like sad when they're hungry you know I think it's just kind of like they exist and then they suck happiness out of people and they're a little bit more happy for the moment.

[00:22:10] But when you're talking like it's a dog or the Lord of the Rings elephants it's like there's a certain aspect of your your nature. Exploiting something's innocence for your evil gain. But it's not quite the same because they're not like animals like that. They're beasts.

[00:22:34] But that's but even to your point before this distinction between beasts and being is a poor distinction. I don't think there should be such a distinction. Yeah but I think it fits for the dementors.

[00:22:44] You could argue that for other stuff and I would probably agree but I think dementors fit in the beast chain. Have we come full circle? Am I not trying to convince you of the point that you convinced me of a few days ago? You're like Dementor Rights now.

[00:23:00] My thing is like okay like again we talked about zoos before. Let creatures be creatures wherever they are. Dementors natural habitat is cold dark places where wizards are doing terrible things.

[00:23:15] If you eliminate the wizards that are doing terrible things it's not like you're driving the dementors out but maybe they'll just cease existing because they don't have enough food. They don't die if they don't eat though. That's the thing. Yeah maybe I don't know.

[00:23:29] I don't think they need wizards nearby. I thought they just existed in the foggy dark places. I didn't know that wizards... The question is if whether they need to feed is actually like a survival instinct or is it if it's just a pleasure instinct.

[00:23:45] But I'm like let them exist wherever they want. Like in our like a symbiotic relationship to me is not like we're using animals for our own benefit and they're like help like they're doing things for us.

[00:23:57] I'm like we're all just like coexisting in the same spheres not infringing on each other's territory. There's different types of symbiosis like symbiosis just denotes proximity and like in living.

[00:24:09] So you could have mutualism which is what my argument is that both are kind of benefiting in a way but like parasitism that's also symbiosis because it's like they're in the same proximity. So commensalism I don't know neither. They just exist together.

[00:24:28] Yeah I don't know I just feel like the ministry is taking advantage of dementors when they should be given their rights. I've created an activist. Cool you be active for the dementor rights.

[00:24:45] No you just changed my perspective on that so I'm like shifting everything that I think about dementors now. How far can you swing? I know exactly how an extremist. I still don't think that they're great.

[00:24:56] They're not like justice in actors. There's another creature that kind of is it tells the purity of someone's soul. But that's not necessarily in these books you don't really see them in these books but you see it in the extra movie series they made.

[00:25:16] And I'm like those creatures are really fascinating because those are good senses of justice. Those are good senses of who is a pure soul versus an impure soul but dementors I don't think are.

[00:25:32] I don't think dementors have any morals or like that's why they're not swayed by the morals at all. I think that's totally an irrelevant aspect to them. I think they're just seeing like happiness.

[00:25:48] Like their lens that they see through is literally just like emptiness and little bits of happiness that they can go chase and eat. And it's not even like oh it's a human being. It's like it's just that's what I eat that's happiness.

[00:26:03] But you said that they're good. What was your argument before that they're like good for the justice system or whatever? Yeah because they're just perfectly like no wait I'm not cornered I'm just trying to find a word. It's too late for this conversation.

[00:26:26] They're just not swayed at all and I think that's honestly pretty good for a justice seeker. Not saying anything about prison punishment things but if that's your goal and you're pretty sure that your justice is correct that you want to go kill somebody.

[00:26:44] Sure have your killer be completely unswayed by stuff and get that job done. Okay I like that so they're good enactors of justice maybe but they're not good justice seekers itself.

[00:26:54] That's like even some of the stuff that like I remember reading a paper on this before how rhetoric usually wins out in court cases rather than truth.

[00:27:06] So like you can have someone who's just a good like rhetorician or like just can speak really well like use their voice and enunciate certain things.

[00:27:12] And they're gonna win the trial more times than not so there's certain judges and certain justices who are trying to promote like a monotonous system. Where you like speak or not you don't speak in a monotone voice but like you just read everything that's been given.

[00:27:27] Or like if you're giving testimony it's like almost like a voice filter where you can't undulate your voice. There's like fascinating things that are going on that they're not really happening in the justice system.

[00:27:38] But like a justice system where you just speak and you're not like trying to persuade people is a much more it's a much better system of justice. Because then the truth is just like the purity of the truth. The truth will out.

[00:27:55] So yeah it's a great and interesting point. And there's a one time that the Dementors are angry that Sirius escaped. But are they just angry because they're not getting the food they were promised?

[00:28:07] Yeah maybe or they're angry because maybe they do love doing a job and they're failing at their job. So they're angry that they're not doing the job well. They do have morals. Yeah maybe they do. It's a great point. They do get angry.

[00:28:24] It's gonna throw another wrench into the system. We're gonna have another full Dementor discussion soon about why they got angry. That's another weird one that they throw in. Understanding Dementor emotions. Yeah I'm gonna write a book on this.

[00:28:38] Okay so chapter 21 is Hermione's secret where you kind of learn everything about Hermione and what she's been doing or time turner all that kind of stuff. You said you had a question about time turners. You don't really understand it?

[00:28:49] It's just so mind-boggling to me. Like there's so much happening when you add this type of magic to the mix. Like everything could be time turned and we don't know it. But I don't understand why the ministry let her have it.

[00:29:10] I think there's probably some like she's probably getting a little bit famous that she's like such a smart student and she's gonna be like the next great wizard in the world. And like Hermione Granger up and coming at Hogwarts.

[00:29:23] Where the ministry kind of wants to support that so that they have her for themselves. Like try to like breed Hermione into the ministry. Yeah. But I don't know there's a lot that could go wrong.

[00:29:38] Okay so you are bringing up one of the greatest points that a lot of people brought up when they started reading these books. And something that Danny has been skeptical of for his entire time reading Harry Potter.

[00:29:49] Which is you're opening a wormhole when you're bringing in time turners and everything can be time turned. But she closes that to some extent with a small little she realizes that the wormhole she opened up with time turners.

[00:30:00] She said I think once she said she actually regretted using the time turners because of the possibilities that I could bring in. And there's two funny notes. The first one is that she closes that loophole in the fifth book.

[00:30:15] And I won't really explain like exactly how she closes that loophole but she closes the loophole in the fifth book. In a small line that is going to go over your head but when we come to it I'll let you know.

[00:30:24] She closes that loophole in the fifth book. And the other funny note is that the play which everyone hates. The play you were talking about? No this is a different one. This is like the actual Broadway play Harry Potter and the Cursed Child.

[00:30:39] Is based on the idea of time turners and it is reprehensible to most fans. Most fans hate that play because it doesn't respect the canon. There's things that happen in that play that are absurd. Like absolutely absurd.

[00:30:53] It's a great production you know it's like fun but people hate that play who are Harry Potter fans. I feel like my issue was not that plot hole but a different plot hole.

[00:31:03] That if Snape ever knew about Hermione's schedule that she was taking three classes at one time. He would have known that she was using the time turner and that Fudge gave her permission from the Ministry with McGonagall. I feel like he could have pretty easily found that out.

[00:31:24] And then all of this last chapter shenanigans going back and forth. Where they let everybody escape and they saved more lives. Snape could have just been like no that was a time turner. And I feel like he could have just done something with that too.

[00:31:38] Because all Snape needs is to know that Hermione is taking three classes at once. He knows what's up. And that didn't sit right with me. Because he could just snatch that time turner then do his own thing. I still think Snape has some sort of responsibility to him.

[00:31:57] But Snape wants Sirius dead. I know he wants him dead for sure. He does for sure deep down. I don't know if I can say that for sure actually. Is he a double agent? Does he know all of this already?

[00:32:12] No that's just interesting it's just about reevaluating Snape and seeing what he actually wants. That's another really interesting point of what if Snape actually had the time turner. What would he go back in time and do?

[00:32:24] Because there's a point where Snape isn't really listening to the story here. He just wants to get revenge. But Snape is a bit more justice oriented rather than revenge oriented. In that he wants to hand Snape over or wants to hand Sirius over. Rather than kill him there.

[00:32:42] So Snape isn't really going for revenge so much. Snape just believes that I don't know. Snape just believes what the ministry has said that Sirius Black is out there. He's out to harm students. He's on the escape. He's on the run.

[00:33:02] Did Snape know that the Marauders were all in a mad guy? Yeah. Yeah. I can't. There's a moment when Snape. I think it's in this book. It was the moment when. That they talked about.

[00:33:33] I think it happens with Dumbledore where someone Harry asks why Snape hates him so much. Or why Snape hates James so much or something like that. And Dumbledore says because he saved his life. But he was a human when he saved his life in the Shrieking Shack. Yeah.

[00:33:51] But I think he caught a glimpse of them. I don't know. I don't remember. No, he caught a glimpse of Lupin as a werewolf. Yeah, that's right. He does know that Sirius is one though. For reasons we'll talk about later. Okay. I'm trying to think.

[00:34:13] So if he knows Sirius. I guess that doesn't really affect much. I guess one though because he would have known that that's how he could have escaped Azkaban. Probably. Yeah. Because I feel like that's pretty common knowledge that if you see dementors around the animals aren't affected.

[00:34:34] Snape could have been a whistleblower so many times. And he doesn't which is crazy. Why doesn't he? Because he's good. He's abusing students. I don't know. Snape is fundamentally good. I don't know. I still feel. I think he's trying to like earn something back with Dumbledore.

[00:35:00] I think he's trying to like earn trust because he was a death eater. And that's why he is doing all these or is not taking all these opportunities to be bad. He's just a generally mean person.

[00:35:13] But I think he's trying to like hang on to some thread of. I don't know. Like maintaining goodness with Dumbledore. They're not even like that friendly with each other. Yeah. We'll see. We'll see. We'll get there when we get there.

[00:35:33] I love that you don't know some of this stuff. It's great. So fun for me. Anything else? Anything in Chapter 21? So the Time Turners is a really funky one. Anything else in this chapter before we go on to the last? You say Buckbeak. That was great.

[00:35:55] Yeah, I feel like actually I didn't really care about Buckbeak that much this whole time. Really? Yeah. I was just like, okay Hagrid, it's gonna be okay. Like it didn't sit that deep with me. It's just an animal. Hagrid's a little too emotional. Yeah, Hagrid.

[00:36:17] But you kind of love that about I love that about Hagrid at least that he's like super emotional with every little animal that he gets. He was emotional with the dragon. He loves Hibiris. Like he loves these beasts that are like a little crazy, a little out there.

[00:36:31] I love that about Hagrid. He's great. I know. I love it too, but it's taking up my time. Like let's get moving in this book. Come on. This is a good quote from Chapter 22. You think that you think the dead we have loved ever truly leave us.

[00:36:52] You think that we don't recall them more clearly than ever in times of great trouble. Your father's alive in you, Harry, and he shows himself most plainly when you have need of him. Which is pretty sweet. It is such a good line. That was a great line.

[00:37:07] Yeah. The last chapter is really good. It just has so many good little tidbits of information and so many good lines in it. But Dumbledore is so fantastic in that one. There's another line that they kind of discuss. Like the. The.

[00:37:26] The car, like the result of it all, I guess. When Harry questions if he made any difference and Dumbledore says didn't make any difference, said Dumbledore quietly. It made all the difference in the world. Harry, you helped uncover the truth.

[00:37:39] You saved an innocent man from a terrible fate. At the end of this book, did you feel like they actually accomplished anything? Um, I'm shaking my head. No, and I'm not willing to say no, but.

[00:37:52] I feel like they accomplished some personal growth that might be helpful later on. I don't know how much they actually defeated the Dark Lord in any way because now Peter Pettigrew is just going to go back.

[00:38:10] And I think about this, that Harry essentially like traded Sirius for Peter Pettigrew. Yeah, and I think that probably ate him up for like the rest of his life. Yeah, because now Peter Pettigrew is back in the world. The Dark Lord's rising thanks to you.

[00:38:27] And then your godfather is gone and you can't spend summer with him. And he's in hiding forever. And like the least hope you have is that he's in a tropical island. I know. But I don't know, like that to me feels like they didn't really accomplish anything.

[00:38:44] Yeah, I know. Which is a little depressing. Yeah, I don't think I could live with that. Like just I traded my godfather for like the worst criminal ever. Yeah. And I want Sirius back. I want him back. Harry Potter is a good book. Yeah, I agree.

[00:39:06] Harry does, even though like they're on the run here, like Harry knowing the truth is pretty good in this chapter. I don't mind him kind of uncovering this stuff again.

[00:39:16] Even what you said, the personal growth is it's good enough for me in this where they they just grow so much. And Harry learns information so that he knows he doesn't have to harbor grudges against these people, anything like that.

[00:39:27] But from the beginning of this book, when Harry didn't really know about Sirius Black to the end where he knows about Sirius Black, but like, you know, that's good. There's not a ton of change that happens. Yeah.

[00:39:40] There's a whole Dumbledore download of information, which is kind of great. Dumbledore gives all sorts of little morsels of good quotes to Harry. Morsels? Choice morsels. What are these morsels? Well, it's the line that you read. It's one of my favorite lines.

[00:40:01] Do you think the dead we have ever loved truly leave us? You think that we don't remember them more clearly than ever in times of great trouble? Your father is alive in you, Harry, and shows himself most plainly when you have need of him.

[00:40:12] How else could you produce that particular patronus? Prongs wrote again last night. So you did see your father last night, Harry. You found him inside yourself. Which is just a great line. I love that. That's the mind bending-ness of the time Turner. I know.

[00:40:29] It's like it already happened, but it hasn't happened yet. I can't comprehend that. Yeah, it's a fun one. Anything else in this chapter before we head on to the finals? I thought a stag was a horse. And I googled it and I was like, what? It's a deer?

[00:40:51] It comes up in crosswords sometimes. Stag, a male deer. Sometimes I put buck when it's really stag. A buck can be a bunch of different male animals, but a stag is more specifically a male deer. I think I kept thinking it was like a stallion.

[00:41:05] That'd be kind of cool. Galloping and I don't know. And I was like prongs? And then prongs? So I googled it. No, it's a deer. Big antlers. Prongs with a horse doesn't make a ton of sense.

[00:41:22] But now that you know how it is big antlers, you're like, oh, that makes kind of sense. Every other line it's like charging forward and it's a big thing. So it just never settled that it couldn't be a horse until prongs wrote again.

[00:41:35] I had a friend think that Fang was a boar. Did I tell you that in the first one? Because he's a boar hound. And someone, one of my friends thought he was a boar. Like an actual boar animal. What does a boar hound even look like?

[00:41:51] It's just like a hound dog. I'm imagining like a gray wolf hound, you know, like the wiry hair. Yeah, yeah, it's something like that. Because those are really big. Yeah, yeah. I think Sirius Black is more like a huge wiry haired dog.

[00:42:06] But I think Fang is pretty big too. He's got to put up with Hagrid so he's got to be big. Fang is like Great Dane size to me. Oh yeah? Well, magical blood, a Great Dane size, he's huge. I like that. I can't ever think about Hagrid normally.

[00:42:20] I know. How did it happen? That's a real question. And McGonagall's love story. I love that. McGonagall and Hagrid are falling in love. I will find that and I will send it to you. Or I'll just drop it in the Discord whenever it gets published, posted. Posted, yeah.

[00:42:43] You can drop it, I'll add you to the members chat. You can drop it to the members chat because everyone who's a member can listen to these. Okay. You'll be added to the third floor corridor. Discord is confusing, man.

[00:42:53] This is like a whole other level of I don't know what's happening. Welcome to real nerddom. Yeah. All right, favorite character and favorite moment in these chapters? Sirius Black. And I really like the moment where he's like, do you want to come live with me? Yeah, yeah.

[00:43:10] I'm like, I'm not going to. I really like the moment where he's like, do you want to come live with me? Yeah. For the summer. That's the sweetest thing ever. My favorite is Lupin and I love the moment where Harry has like a little bit of information with,

[00:43:26] mainly it's happening with Dumbledore, but he has like the little farewell with Lupin and I kind of like that because I love Lupin. Lupin's one of my favorites. I think he's great. Lupin's awesome. I know. It's a good book. I know for real.

[00:43:47] Well, we're now on to your least favorite right now, which is a book six or book four. Wow, book six. Yeah, it'll go up. The rating will go up. Just stuck in a lull. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:43:59] Well, when you start, when you keep reading it, it'll get boosted a little bit. Yeah. But thanks for joining us on our journey of Harry Potter and the First Time Readers. You want to say that line? That's fine. It's good.