Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix: Ch 34-37

[00:00:00] Where has this book ranked? Have you liked this book more than all the others so far?

[00:00:09] Yes. I don't know. I have to like page through all of the books and remember all of the details,

[00:00:16] but this I might like, this is five, I might like four better than this.

[00:00:27] Okay, that's not, yeah, that's not a completely out of the blue. Most people actually like four a little

[00:00:33] bit better than five. I just feel like at the end there's still like unfinished business,

[00:00:38] like it's really winding up to the next book. Book five is. Yeah, book five is. So, I don't know.

[00:00:46] Like a lot of good stuff happens, but I don't know if it's my favorite one. Yeah, this book is in a lot

[00:00:55] of, is it a ton of people's favorite because of Umbridge? Sometimes it just seems to drag, but I

[00:00:59] still think it's a pretty remarkable book and that even in the midst of it feeling like it's dragging

[00:01:03] and Umbridge is still being there and all these slow things happen. Like the last 10 chapters are

[00:01:07] just action-packed. Yeah. They're like one after the other, like all your, not all your questions,

[00:01:11] but like a ton of stuff's happening. And it does seem like this entire book is essentially just setting up

[00:01:17] the next book. Yeah. I don't know why people would say they don't like it just because Umbridge

[00:01:22] is here. Cause I feel like Umbridge as a character is fantastic. Yeah. So I don't know.

[00:01:28] People, she's agonizing to just be around. Like I still remember my first time read when I was

[00:01:33] intrigued by her as a character, but I just, she was around for too many chapters. I was like,

[00:01:39] I need her to get punched in the head right now. I need her to be like out of this book so that they

[00:01:45] can actually do what they need to do. And she just wasn't. And it was getting worse and worse and worse.

[00:01:49] I remember the first time I read like Harry got a lifetime ban from Quidditch. I was like

[00:01:55] screaming in my house. I was so furious. That's so funny. And, uh, she just would not leave until

[00:02:01] finally grow up. My least favorite character takes care of her. And I'm like, okay, there you go.

[00:02:05] Grow up one good thing that you did. Yeah. And I also had like a week break of not touching the book.

[00:02:12] So it kind of like definitely diffused some of the... Yeah. It's all right though. Yeah.

[00:02:18] But we'll, uh, we'll talk about 35 to the end of the book tonight, but welcome to the podcast. I'm John.

[00:02:23] I'm Lizzie. And this is Harry Potter and the second time reader.

[00:02:38] Did you, were you surprised that this whole thing was a farce? Did you think that it was going to be real or not?

[00:02:45] Like with serious? Serious. Yeah. Um, yeah, I think I did think it was going to be real.

[00:02:52] Cause I was also just trusting the fact that it was real last time.

[00:02:58] And Harry said something to Hermione in the chapter, like the fire chapter.

[00:03:05] And he was like, why do you think Dumbledore is like trying to teach me occlumency? Like,

[00:03:10] of course it's real. That's why he wants me to like close my mind. So even like Dumbledore

[00:03:16] wanting Harry to close his mind, like that was also kind of a little like true.

[00:03:23] Yep. I don't know, like adding truth to it. Yes. Verifying it in a way, but I don't know. You got me.

[00:03:31] Um, yeah, we're going to talk about Dumbledore at the very end when they have the conversation.

[00:03:36] Um, cause there's a lot of ethical questions that we need to work through with him

[00:03:40] for why he didn't trust Harry, why he was ignorant or why he was, uh, silent with Harry.

[00:03:46] Yeah. There's a lot of stuff.

[00:03:48] Should we just group these all together?

[00:03:50] Yeah, we should honestly. Okay.

[00:03:54] Actually, no, let's keep trucking through chapter by chapter. Cause a lot of the stuff that it is in

[00:04:00] the final chapter, which is the last one. So we'll just kind of speed through some of these and then

[00:04:03] get to the final one. Um, uh, speed through it. Yeah. Speed.

[00:04:12] You're always in a rush. Huh? You're always in a rush.

[00:04:20] Anyway, what else happens in this chapter? Okay. Um, there's another line that Malfoy says

[00:04:26] and he says, Dumbledore never told you the reason you bear that scar was hidden in the bowels of the

[00:04:32] department of mysteries. Malfoy sneered. Why didn't Dumbledore tell Harry about this kind of stuff?

[00:04:40] He just was trying to protect him and then he really loved Harry and then he didn't want to tell him

[00:04:46] at the end of it. Yeah.

[00:04:47] Do you buy that?

[00:04:50] Oh, I don't know. I mean, yeah, I guess I do buy it, but I would think it probably became more complex

[00:04:58] than what he's saying right now. So even like the stuff that he's saying, oh, like you were too young

[00:05:04] to know. I would imagine there's like, he's gained a lot more painful knowledge probably that now he

[00:05:11] doesn't want to dump on him. But I mean, he seemed pretty truthful. Like Dumbledore was crying when

[00:05:17] he was telling him. Yeah, for sure. So, I mean, I need to just whip up tears though.

[00:05:22] That's true. That's actually, yeah, it's true. It's not true.

[00:05:24] I can fake cry. Really? Yeah. It's impressive.

[00:05:28] I know. It's great.

[00:05:30] I saw the fly that was just attacking me.

[00:05:35] It just got gatted right in my eyebrow.

[00:05:38] I honestly didn't question his, if he was telling the truth or not. I just took it at face value.

[00:05:49] Do you think that Dumbledore was right to keep this information from Harry?

[00:05:56] Like when is the appropriate time to tell a kid that a prophecy, that there's a prophecy about him?

[00:06:01] It depends what the prophecy is. The prophecy is either you're going to die or somebody's going to

[00:06:06] kill you. I would hold off a little. But yeah, I mean, just how much Harry has gotten into

[00:06:15] like the defense against the dark arts and like fighting Voldemort already.

[00:06:19] I probably would have told them after like Sorcerer's Stone, like that went down.

[00:06:24] Like, hey, the reason that like this guy's after you, like it would just explain a lot.

[00:06:30] But do you think that it's Dumbledore's right to withhold this information? Like when does Harry

[00:06:35] have a right to know? When he becomes an adult? When he becomes like a teenager? Like when he goes

[00:06:40] to school? Because Dumbledore withholding this information, it's just a weirdly ethical question

[00:06:44] about like, you know, when do kids have the right to know certain things about, you know, how,

[00:06:50] whatever it might be. But for Harry specifically, it's like, this prophecy is specifically about him.

[00:06:55] Is it Dumbledore's right to withhold this information from him or not?

[00:06:57] Well, who else knows about the prophecy?

[00:07:02] It seems that's a great question. Because he's the person that is able, he heard it.

[00:07:08] And he was only one who heard it. So it depends who he's already told, because it seems like Malfoy

[00:07:13] maybe knows. No, they don't know what the content of the prophecy is. So that's why they're adamant

[00:07:18] to go find what the prophecy is, because they don't know what it is. And because Voldemort thinks

[00:07:22] that there's extra information in there that can help him defeat Harry.

[00:07:26] Yeah, because then you're not really just telling Harry, like you're telling the whole world.

[00:07:30] If Harry, like, I just feel like it would get out.

[00:07:34] Yeah.

[00:07:34] But I mean, if other people know the prophecies, and you're like withholding it from the person

[00:07:39] that it's about, I don't like that. I feel like you'd rather just hear it from the person straight

[00:07:43] up.

[00:07:43] Yeah, yeah.

[00:07:45] But I don't know. It's like not a nice, it's a tough prophecy.

[00:07:49] Prophecy, you know?

[00:07:51] It's like impending doom.

[00:07:53] Yeah, we're going to dissect the prophecy in a bit. But there's another line that says,

[00:07:57] and I just want you to want to ask, what do you think is happening in this paragraph?

[00:08:03] A jet of red light flew right over Death Eaters, right over the Death Eater's shoulder

[00:08:08] and hit a glass. A glass fronted cabinet on the wall full of variously shaped hourglasses.

[00:08:15] The cabinet fell to the floor and burst apart, glass flying everywhere, spraying back up onto

[00:08:20] the wall fully mended, then fell down again and shattered.

[00:08:26] Time turners.

[00:08:27] Yeah, nice. Good pick up.

[00:08:30] Okay, thanks.

[00:08:32] So there's no, so this is how she, I just want to make a note, this is how she closed time turner loop,

[00:08:37] because a lot of people had issues that she brought time turners into the stories because

[00:08:41] you could do anything with this. And she destroyed all the time turners at this moment.

[00:08:45] Oh, okay.

[00:08:47] So it's like, there's no, there's not going to be like a time heist like in Avengers.

[00:08:50] It's like, you know, this is just done one and done.

[00:08:52] That's it.

[00:08:52] No more time turners exist. They can't go back and kill.

[00:08:55] You can't make more?

[00:08:56] Maybe they could.

[00:08:57] You can't just scoop up the sand?

[00:08:59] Yeah, they probably could, to be completely honest.

[00:09:00] There's some skilled magicians who probably could be able to do that.

[00:09:05] I didn't realize there was multiple time turners. I thought it was like a one,

[00:09:10] a one hit wonder.

[00:09:11] Yeah, they have a few.

[00:09:15] Oh yeah, they got a bunch of them in there.

[00:09:18] And they're the only people that can use them or distribute them.

[00:09:23] And it has to be under ministry control.

[00:09:32] Okay, so there's another really weird part of this that everyone debates.

[00:09:36] And it says this,

[00:09:53] Yeah, that was crazy.

[00:09:56] What was that?

[00:09:58] It was like, um,

[00:10:01] Madame Pomfrey said something later on and she was like, oh, like the thoughts are worse than the spells sometimes.

[00:10:10] And I guess it was just like you're thinking the spell or you're like willing something at someone and then that happens.

[00:10:19] I kind of dig that. That's a cool theory.

[00:10:22] I thought that was like what it was.

[00:10:24] There's a lot of debate for what the heck this was.

[00:10:26] Because she really knows in the Harry Potter universe.

[00:10:28] I'll find it when we get to that chapter, but they felt like that explained it a little, which made me immediately think,

[00:10:34] could Harry have killed serious, like willfully when they were in the shrieking shack?

[00:10:41] And you know, like Harry didn't actually know how to kill anybody at that point.

[00:10:45] Oh, yeah.

[00:10:45] And I was like, can you just like think really hard and make it happen? Because he Harry had all the magic he had done was just like unwillingly like he was just angry at stuff.

[00:10:55] And it would just kind of happen.

[00:10:57] So now I'm like, maybe he actually could have like just thought,

[00:11:00] die.

[00:11:01] I'm like, it would have died.

[00:11:03] I don't know.

[00:11:04] You hate another person enough.

[00:11:05] It might be like some more like lessons that you have to have and like actually learn how to do magic without speaking it.

[00:11:13] But nonverbal magic, so to speak.

[00:11:16] Just thoughts.

[00:11:18] There has to be some kind of limit to that.

[00:11:22] Because.

[00:11:22] Limit your thoughts.

[00:11:24] Yeah.

[00:11:24] But like the magical realm has to limit that to some extent, because I mean, I can't just go walking on the street and hate someone and be like,

[00:11:32] and they just drop dead, you know?

[00:11:35] I don't know.

[00:11:35] Maybe you can.

[00:11:38] That'd be dangerous.

[00:11:40] That'd be real dangerous.

[00:11:41] Yeah.

[00:11:42] Yeah.

[00:11:42] I want to find that quote now because I'm convinced that's what she said.

[00:11:55] Because they, yeah.

[00:11:57] Yeah.

[00:11:57] Find that quote because I'm actually interested in her exact wording.

[00:12:00] What chapter does she heal the people in?

[00:12:03] She comes back in, I think, the very last one.

[00:12:13] Yeah.

[00:12:13] The second war begins.

[00:12:14] I think it's the second war begins.

[00:12:21] I didn't underline it.

[00:12:23] I'm an idiot.

[00:12:25] What's the gist of it?

[00:12:26] Oh, here we go.

[00:12:27] Yes.

[00:12:27] According, wait.

[00:12:30] There were still deep welts on his forearms where the brain's tentacles had wrapped around him.

[00:12:35] According to Madame Promfrey, thoughts could leave deeper scarring than almost anything else,

[00:12:39] though since she had started applying continuous medical.

[00:12:41] So that's the thoughts from the brains.

[00:12:44] Still, she's talking about that in just general idea, too.

[00:12:47] And so like the spell that they cast on whoever that was without words, like that's still a thought that's making that happen.

[00:12:58] Thoughts can leave deeper scarring than almost anything else.

[00:13:02] Which is like so true.

[00:13:04] Okay.

[00:13:04] That's true.

[00:13:05] Yeah.

[00:13:05] I feel like it's true in life.

[00:13:07] Like you can think so like you can get so uptight about something in your mind that it just like ruins the outcome, even if it's not.

[00:13:14] Nothing's happening in life.

[00:13:15] Like you just let things build up.

[00:13:17] It's like personal inception.

[00:13:19] It's like your own thoughts burrow deeper than like sometimes the reality of the situation and it hurts you in ways that are deeper than just like a normal pain or a scar.

[00:13:28] Like your own perception of yourself sometimes is wrong, but your own perception of yourself can give you lots of lasting damage.

[00:13:35] That's facts.

[00:13:35] Or like the thoughts of another person.

[00:13:37] Like if that's why I used to, if I could choose any superpower, I used to say like, oh, I want to read people's minds.

[00:13:42] I don't want that at all.

[00:13:43] That's like literally the last thing that I would want now.

[00:13:47] Because I think that'd be so damaging.

[00:13:48] I think that would hurt so bad to know like maybe someone passed you and they had like a, you know, a nasty thought about you and how much you'd latch onto that and be like, oh my gosh.

[00:13:57] What do you say?

[00:13:59] You say like unforgiveness hurts you more than it hurts the other person.

[00:14:02] Something like that.

[00:14:03] Yeah.

[00:14:04] Not forgiving someone is like taking rat poison and waiting for the rat to die.

[00:14:07] Yeah.

[00:14:08] I didn't say that line.

[00:14:09] Yeah, I know that one.

[00:14:11] I think Anne Lamott said that line, which is a great line.

[00:14:14] It's one of my favorites.

[00:14:16] But it, yeah, it tends to harm you more than it does the other person.

[00:14:19] Because a lot of people, like if they, if you are, I mean, it's the same with a lot of these things.

[00:14:25] Like it's the same with gossip.

[00:14:26] Like you think that you're gossiping, but it doesn't really hurt you when you're doing the gossiping.

[00:14:30] But if someone learns about you gossiping about them, it crushes the other person.

[00:14:34] And it doesn't even matter the content of the gossip sometimes.

[00:14:36] It just matters like, you know, they were being talked about behind their back and that crushes them.

[00:14:42] Yeah.

[00:14:42] So I think what she's saying is very astute.

[00:14:44] Like she's a healer.

[00:14:45] And I love that.

[00:14:46] I think she's a really good healer because I think she has an understanding of like psychology of some of that kind of stuff.

[00:14:52] And that like thoughts have almost a more serious impact than like, you know, these little sucker tentacles that they like physical harm has on you.

[00:15:02] Like it's the thoughts that can kind of invade you.

[00:15:05] And it's hard to heal some of that kind of stuff.

[00:15:08] Yeah.

[00:15:09] Years of therapy to heal some of that stuff.

[00:15:11] If you even can get there, to be honest.

[00:15:13] Yeah.

[00:15:13] Which again, it's like one of those throwaway lines, but I love this series so much for those small little throwaway lines that are so psychologically attuned to like humanity and what people go through on a day to day basis.

[00:15:27] I think it's just such a brilliant storytelling trope.

[00:15:32] Yeah.

[00:15:32] Or technique.

[00:15:38] Thoughts on the death of Sirius?

[00:15:42] So sad.

[00:15:43] Yeah.

[00:15:44] So sad.

[00:15:45] Yeah.

[00:15:46] Yeah.

[00:15:46] I mean, I was crying.

[00:15:48] I was wiping my tears, blowing my nose.

[00:15:50] It's fully, fully gone.

[00:15:53] It's a devastating death too.

[00:15:55] I know it was coming the entire time.

[00:15:57] Yeah.

[00:15:57] But, ugh.

[00:15:59] I hate how he was like being cocky before he died too.

[00:16:04] Like that made me so mad.

[00:16:06] Like he's like, that's all you got?

[00:16:08] Or something like that.

[00:16:09] And then boom.

[00:16:10] Look what that got you, Sirius.

[00:16:12] I know.

[00:16:12] You're so cocky.

[00:16:15] But, I mean, that's his sister-in-law?

[00:16:17] Question mark?

[00:16:19] Is that how they're related?

[00:16:20] Sister-in-law?

[00:16:20] Are they cousins?

[00:16:21] They're cousins.

[00:16:21] Yeah.

[00:16:22] Cousins.

[00:16:23] They're actually just straight cousins.

[00:16:27] They're not cousins-in-law.

[00:16:29] It's Bellatrix and Narcissa.

[00:16:33] And they just married.

[00:16:34] They were part of the black family.

[00:16:37] But they married two other dudes.

[00:16:39] And they got their last name changed.

[00:16:42] So, they're pretty direct cousins.

[00:16:44] I can't believe you'd kill your cousin.

[00:16:46] I know, right?

[00:16:48] That's insane.

[00:16:50] That's messed up.

[00:16:50] Well, Sirius is just like the black sheep of the family.

[00:16:53] He's no pun intended.

[00:16:54] Do you think Sirius would have killed her, though?

[00:16:57] Yes.

[00:16:58] All right.

[00:16:58] That's a...

[00:16:59] Nobody died in this situation except Sirius.

[00:17:03] Yeah, yeah.

[00:17:03] Which is more angering to me.

[00:17:06] Would you be someone who...

[00:17:10] Would you try to kill some of these people?

[00:17:13] Oh, my God.

[00:17:14] Too personal of a question.

[00:17:16] I don't know.

[00:17:17] Do you think that Sirius or Dumbledore or any of these people are really trying to kill people?

[00:17:23] This is one of Harry's...

[00:17:24] Let me just ask that question first.

[00:17:26] What do you think?

[00:17:27] Do you think they should or they would?

[00:17:30] That they should kill people?

[00:17:32] Yeah.

[00:17:32] Should they?

[00:17:33] And then would they?

[00:17:37] I think it depends on the character.

[00:17:40] Okay.

[00:17:40] Like, who's doing the killing?

[00:17:43] Um...

[00:17:44] I wouldn't be mad if, like, they all walked in there and just started abracadabbering everyone.

[00:17:49] Like, that feels like that would make sense.

[00:17:52] Okay.

[00:17:52] And then...

[00:17:53] Wow.

[00:17:53] That's intense.

[00:17:54] Yeah.

[00:17:54] But, like, that's in a book setting.

[00:17:56] Like, I don't think I could actually kill people, like, in real life.

[00:18:00] Yeah, yeah.

[00:18:00] For sure.

[00:18:00] I don't know.

[00:18:01] But, like, if Bellatrix died, okay, great.

[00:18:05] Like, whoever else they're fighting dies, good.

[00:18:08] But it feels wrong to me that, like, they would just chain them up and be like, let's

[00:18:14] just go to Azkaban.

[00:18:15] Like, I think the right thing is to kill them, like, after all they've done.

[00:18:19] Whew.

[00:18:20] I think they justly deserve death.

[00:18:23] Wow.

[00:18:24] Like, the Death Eaters.

[00:18:25] Lizzie's like, capital punishment, let's go.

[00:18:27] No, that's not...

[00:18:28] You can just kill someone.

[00:18:30] It kind of is, though.

[00:18:32] It would.

[00:18:33] It's almost worse than capital punishment, if I'm being completely honest.

[00:18:36] It's just, I've or not.

[00:18:38] Like, you've done bad.

[00:18:40] So, you should also die.

[00:18:42] That is capital punishment.

[00:18:43] But that is, the capital punishment is, like, the government then ends a person's life rather

[00:18:47] than the individual.

[00:18:47] This is, like, almost revenge.

[00:18:50] Okay.

[00:18:51] But are you seeing it as, like, a zoomed in small scale of revenge thing?

[00:18:55] Or as in, like, the whole world?

[00:18:58] Is it, like, this is risking...

[00:19:01] You're...

[00:19:01] So, this is...

[00:19:02] You think...

[00:19:03] I'm going to psychoanalyze you right now.

[00:19:06] You think I'm looking at this really macro.

[00:19:08] You think that you're looking at this really large scale on there.

[00:19:12] Oh, if they kill these people, they're protecting the wizarding world right now.

[00:19:14] I'm thinking about this even larger scale.

[00:19:17] Because if they set something like that up, then anybody can do what they think they need

[00:19:21] to do to another person in order to save the wizarding world, which is unethical.

[00:19:24] It needs to be held to authorities.

[00:19:26] Not of their death eaters.

[00:19:27] 100% of their death eaters.

[00:19:29] Because the world, the governing world has to believe in one thing.

[00:19:34] Not, maybe not above all, but they have to believe in the ability for people to be redeemed

[00:19:38] and the ability for people to be rehabilitated.

[00:19:41] And if you don't believe in that, you believe in an, a...

[00:19:45] I don't know what the word would be.

[00:19:48] Communist society.

[00:19:49] Or I don't know exactly if it would be communist or not.

[00:19:51] But you believe in, if you believe in, if this person is evil, yes, like an eye for an

[00:19:56] eye is true, but I should never be the enactor of that.

[00:19:59] It is people outside of this who can think rationally more than I can.

[00:20:03] If I am the one enacting an eye for an eye, it's revenge.

[00:20:05] It's complete revenge.

[00:20:06] If Dumbledore is just going in there, guns a blazing, then he is enacting revenge.

[00:20:10] Not necessarily justice.

[00:20:12] It needs to be up to people who are, their job is justice.

[00:20:16] So this is why you like Dumbledore so much?

[00:20:18] No.

[00:20:19] Well, yes.

[00:20:19] Part of the reason why I like him so much is because he never really aims to kill.

[00:20:24] And there's, we're going to talk about this later.

[00:20:26] And the same thing is true of Harry.

[00:20:28] Harry's bread and butter has become the Expelliarmus charm.

[00:20:31] He only wants to disarm people.

[00:20:33] He doesn't want to hurt people.

[00:20:35] Now he goes against that to some extent later on in this book when he actually tries to

[00:20:39] crucio someone.

[00:20:40] He tries to use an unforgivable curse.

[00:20:42] And it's actually like a weird mark on Harry where he's not really doing what he should

[00:20:47] be doing.

[00:20:47] He's like going outside of his character a little bit.

[00:20:51] But I think...

[00:20:52] You don't think any of the Death Eaters should be killed?

[00:20:55] No, I do.

[00:20:56] But they shouldn't be killed by anybody in this story right now.

[00:21:00] So who should kill them?

[00:21:01] They need to be put in prison and they need to have a trial and they need to see what their

[00:21:07] crimes were.

[00:21:08] And if the jury deems that their crimes are worthy of the capital punishment of the death

[00:21:14] penalty, then they enact the death penalty on these people.

[00:21:18] But that's still like you're contradicting your own thing that they could be redeemed

[00:21:21] and they could possibly be normal.

[00:21:22] No, the trial is what sets them up on this redemption and rehabilitation.

[00:21:27] So there's a part to it where psychopaths, they aren't able to be rehabilitated or redeemed

[00:21:34] really.

[00:21:35] But they're still in prison.

[00:21:36] They're not like rotting away.

[00:21:37] Their life still has value.

[00:21:39] And I think this is one of Harry Potter's shining examples is that even though these people have

[00:21:43] gone down the wrong end of their...

[00:21:46] The wrong extreme and they're fanatical about their wrong beliefs, there's still an idea that

[00:21:55] their life has value.

[00:21:57] And I think that is the outstanding shining emblem on the good side is that they look at

[00:22:04] these people who are death eaters and they don't think the same way that the death eaters

[00:22:08] think of them.

[00:22:09] The death eaters think of these people as people that they need to exterminate because they

[00:22:13] believe something different than us.

[00:22:14] The people on the good side look at the death eaters and they say, these people are still worthy

[00:22:18] of life.

[00:22:19] They're completely wrong and we need to lock them in prison for a seriously long time so they

[00:22:23] can think about what they've done.

[00:22:25] But they still have the propensity for remorse and regret over what they've done and they

[00:22:30] still should be able to have that chance.

[00:22:33] That's what I think.

[00:22:34] That's why I think a perfect justice system would solve this.

[00:22:37] But I don't think any of these people should go on guns ablaze and killing anybody in this

[00:22:42] situation.

[00:22:43] And there's also the death eaters have immense pressure as a factor of why they're acting like

[00:22:49] this.

[00:22:49] Agreed.

[00:22:50] So if you remove that pressure from the situation, would they actually have the ability to be

[00:22:55] rehabilitated?

[00:22:56] Okay.

[00:22:56] So let's look at Filch.

[00:22:58] Okay.

[00:22:58] Because he's just a death.

[00:22:59] He's just a dark wizard.

[00:23:01] Like if Filch was left to his own devices, he would have kids hanging from the ceiling

[00:23:06] and chains.

[00:23:07] Filch 100% needs to be in prison right now.

[00:23:09] Okay.

[00:23:10] In prison.

[00:23:11] This is an over under reaction for the government right now.

[00:23:14] But would Filch be, would you kill Filch or you would just let him rot in prison until

[00:23:19] he dies?

[00:23:19] I think he needs, I mean, it's, it's not, I don't know what the sentences would be.

[00:23:22] Because that's like something intrinsic in him that he likes that.

[00:23:25] Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[00:23:27] Yeah.

[00:23:27] He's got, he's got some serious issues that are wrong with him.

[00:23:30] I think Filch is one of the weirdest characters in this entire story, if I'm being completely

[00:23:35] honest.

[00:23:36] And he's not talked about enough for how strange he is, but he 100% needs to go to trial for

[00:23:41] the crimes that he's committed of, of salivating over child torture and punishment.

[00:23:47] What a terrible word to use.

[00:23:49] That's what he does.

[00:23:50] Would you kill Umbridge?

[00:23:52] No, I wouldn't kill anybody in this story.

[00:23:55] Really?

[00:23:56] Yes.

[00:23:57] I'm not saying that for nobility.

[00:23:58] I'm saying that because I, I don't think that, uh, like, I mean, we're talking about

[00:24:04] a perfect judicial system here.

[00:24:06] So it would be lovely if a judicial system worked really, really well.

[00:24:11] It doesn't.

[00:24:12] So these people can still go to trial and they can manipulate what they did.

[00:24:15] And we even see that in the fourth book where like, there's people who commit crimes and

[00:24:19] there's like a whole courtroom of people who look angry and it's like the mob mentality.

[00:24:24] They want to lock these people in prison because these people, um, torture.

[00:24:28] And, uh, cruciode Neville Longbottom's parents and people love them.

[00:24:32] And so they want everything wrong to be done with these people.

[00:24:35] And so maybe their sentences were too extreme.

[00:24:37] I don't think so.

[00:24:38] I think their sentences were good because I love Longbottoms.

[00:24:41] But, uh, then you learn of like Ludo Bagman who goes on trial and everyone loves him because

[00:24:45] he's an athlete.

[00:24:46] I, it's like, you see this in the world today, like no trial is really perfect or, or, but

[00:24:51] there has to at least be some belief in a judicial system that somewhat works.

[00:24:55] Otherwise society would never survive.

[00:24:57] There'd be anarchy and I can go kill whoever I wanted based on what I think is right and

[00:25:02] wrong.

[00:25:04] So you're just resting everything in the hands of a jury instead of no personal decision to

[00:25:10] kill someone.

[00:25:10] Yeah.

[00:25:11] Um, I'm like the, but you keep saying it's in a perfect world and it's not in a perfect

[00:25:15] world.

[00:25:15] It's not in a perfect world, but it's a heck of a lot.

[00:25:17] I like, there's a, I don't, this is going to sound weird, but there's not like a lack

[00:25:22] of trust that I have in myself.

[00:25:23] But as far as like my own emotions and as far as how I think and view the world, like I,

[00:25:29] you know, like, I feel like I have a good take on some, you know, some what justice and

[00:25:34] what revenge is.

[00:25:35] But if something happened to me, um, like say, you know, something terrible happened to someone

[00:25:41] that I love and I was like, you know, able to be in a room with that person and I could,

[00:25:51] you know, kill that person right there.

[00:25:52] Would that be justice?

[00:25:55] Would that be revenge?

[00:25:57] And there's a serious distinction between justice and revenge.

[00:26:00] So I should never be the one that tries that person.

[00:26:02] And that would essentially be me trying that person.

[00:26:05] Like Harry goes through that when he thinks that Sirius Black has killed his parents.

[00:26:11] And so he has this moment of revenge where he's in the shrieking shack and he's like,

[00:26:15] I'm going to kill you.

[00:26:16] And it's a complete revenge story.

[00:26:18] And then he realizes that it's wrong.

[00:26:19] And then he goes into justice.

[00:26:21] That's why one of my, one of the most devastating moments in the book.

[00:26:24] But I love this is when he doesn't, when, uh, Sirius and Lupin then turn the tables on

[00:26:30] Wormtail and are about to kill him.

[00:26:32] And Harry's like, no, this can't happen.

[00:26:34] He needs to be like, you know, put in prison and like tried.

[00:26:37] And he's like, you know, he's going to run and sell an Azkaban for the rest of his life.

[00:26:41] But it's the value of human life that, that I think that happens.

[00:26:46] I don't know.

[00:26:47] It's a weird little thing.

[00:26:48] It's a weird little, uh, tidbit that I have.

[00:26:51] No, I like, I hear you.

[00:26:53] I get what you're saying.

[00:26:55] I, yeah, I would think, I think you're probably right, but I still disagree.

[00:26:59] I agree.

[00:27:02] Objectively, you're right.

[00:27:03] Me, I'm wrong.

[00:27:05] Because we love revenge.

[00:27:06] All of us love revenge.

[00:27:07] But revenge never really does anything.

[00:27:08] My, my last thing that I'm holding out here is like, okay, we're looking at this on a global

[00:27:15] scale of like, this is either the end of the wizarding world or like the end of good if

[00:27:22] Voldemort reigns.

[00:27:23] But like, right now it's still kind of is just a battle between like the order of the

[00:27:28] Phoenix and the death eaters.

[00:27:29] And those are two very small groups of people.

[00:27:31] And the rest of the world, like the whole global scale that we're zoomed out looking macro.

[00:27:36] Agreed.

[00:27:37] They're completely oblivious.

[00:27:38] So at this point it could almost be like a personal revenge would benefit the greater

[00:27:43] good because everyone else is oblivious.

[00:27:46] Yeah.

[00:27:46] And I will say this too.

[00:27:48] You have a fantastic point because this is essentially a time of war and judicial system

[00:27:53] doesn't really apply in war.

[00:27:54] Like you're not shooting bullets that like, you know, knock the person out so that you

[00:27:58] can go grab that person and then try them in court, you know?

[00:28:00] Yeah.

[00:28:01] So it doesn't look like that at all.

[00:28:02] Like if there's two politicians that are running or they're going to be elected, it's

[00:28:05] like one, they could know things about each other that the general public has no idea

[00:28:09] about.

[00:28:10] And then one of them murders the other person.

[00:28:12] That's personal revenge.

[00:28:14] But all of us oblivious citizens are going to benefit because of the personal revenge,

[00:28:17] because that, that one politician knew something that we didn't know as citizens.

[00:28:23] I feel like that's kind of like the order of the Phoenix is like, that's how the order

[00:28:27] of the Phoenix should act.

[00:28:28] They, okay.

[00:28:29] Okay.

[00:28:30] That's why I love what the order of the Phoenix actually does.

[00:28:33] And they don't take action like that.

[00:28:34] They're just so noble.

[00:28:35] Yeah.

[00:28:36] Don't you love that?

[00:28:37] It's great.

[00:28:38] Like right up your alley.

[00:28:40] No, it's not saying that I'm noble, but it's like, Oh, I'm almost not.

[00:28:43] And I would fall on your, your side of the things all this time.

[00:28:46] No way.

[00:28:47] But I don't think that I'll be right on it.

[00:28:48] If we were on the freaking like thing with the stairs and the, the, whatever room that

[00:28:52] is.

[00:28:53] And we're both there.

[00:28:54] Like you would not be like killing people.

[00:28:58] Um, absolutely not.

[00:28:59] Okay.

[00:28:59] So I will say you would probably go to Harry and you would probably like personally defend

[00:29:03] Harry.

[00:29:04] And then defend people to my death.

[00:29:06] That's like one of my shining attributes.

[00:29:08] And if they like, if I see what that's your shining attribute.

[00:29:12] Defend people to my death.

[00:29:13] Yeah.

[00:29:14] Absolutely.

[00:29:14] That's been proven in the past.

[00:29:17] As, as you're shining.

[00:29:18] I have died for people.

[00:29:18] I'm back on my fourth try right now.

[00:29:20] Okay.

[00:29:21] No, I think, um, that it's, it's just different.

[00:29:34] If people that I love are being hurt, then I will go off on the person.

[00:29:40] But I do not think that is, that is within my right, or that I do not think that is right

[00:29:45] to do that.

[00:29:46] But it's not saying that I wouldn't do that.

[00:29:47] If someone harmed one of my nieces or nephews, all I want is to, for revenge on that person.

[00:29:53] Like we're talking in sensational terms here.

[00:29:56] Like that's not really realistically going to happen.

[00:29:58] But let's say that that, let's say like my niece was like, you know, Harry Potter and

[00:30:01] like someone's trying to harm Harry Potter.

[00:30:02] I'm going after everyone that I can trying to kill them.

[00:30:04] Who's trying to kill my niece?

[00:30:05] You know, like that's it.

[00:30:07] It's like justified moral wrong.

[00:30:09] Yeah.

[00:30:09] That's a great point.

[00:30:11] Love that.

[00:30:13] I just think, yeah, there's a, there's a court case that, um, do you know the Larry Nassar

[00:30:25] whole trial and court case?

[00:30:27] So Larry Nassar was a guy who like, you know, abused thousands of teens in the gymnastics,

[00:30:32] US gymnastics association.

[00:30:34] He was like a rep, like one of the most disgusting people of all time.

[00:30:38] And, uh, one of the girl's fathers asked the judge, she was, he was like, uh, judge your

[00:30:45] honor.

[00:30:45] I need, I am just simply requesting on top of his sentence to have five room, five minutes

[00:30:50] in alone in a room with this man.

[00:30:51] And the judge is like, I can't do that.

[00:30:53] Obviously.

[00:30:54] And he goes, okay, I need two minutes in a room alone with this guy.

[00:30:57] And I was like, I cannot do that.

[00:30:58] He goes, okay, just give me one minute alone in the room with this guy.

[00:31:01] And judge is like, you're obviously we can't do this.

[00:31:05] I would be that guy saying, give me one minute in a room with this person because I want revenge.

[00:31:10] I want to like, you know, get everything out.

[00:31:11] But here's the thing, which is like, you know, crushing, but also, I don't know.

[00:31:17] That guy would have one minute in a room with that person and he wouldn't enact revenge.

[00:31:20] And then he would go, I don't know if that felt, I don't know if that really exonerated

[00:31:25] or made him feel better.

[00:31:27] I don't think revenge does what we think it does.

[00:31:32] Well, next question.

[00:31:36] I've never seen you like slightly mad at all.

[00:31:40] So this is all like hard for me to picture.

[00:31:43] Yeah, for sure.

[00:31:43] For sure.

[00:31:44] But yeah, that doesn't really come out that often.

[00:31:46] I'm not a very angry person.

[00:31:49] That's why one phrase that I live by, one of my favorite phrases is just beware the wrath

[00:32:00] of a gentleman.

[00:32:01] And I remember seeing that when I was in college for some guy that I really admired.

[00:32:05] And he was very gentle and he was very calm.

[00:32:08] Never saw him get angry except for one moment.

[00:32:10] You know, it was one of the scariest moments of my life when he got angry.

[00:32:14] And I try to like live like that.

[00:32:16] I'm not really like an angry person.

[00:32:18] There's like very thing.

[00:32:19] Like if I'm like kind of the opposite, like if a situation happens, I will retreat within

[00:32:24] myself and shut myself off.

[00:32:25] I do not want to show that kind of side.

[00:32:27] But there are situations where I have been severely angry at something and it's come

[00:32:31] out and sometimes it's scary, you know, but I think that's true for a lot of the people.

[00:32:36] Like I've never really seen you angry.

[00:32:38] So it'd be hard to imagine you in this situation as well.

[00:32:43] I thought air five series is that this tragic moving on.

[00:32:53] Chapter 36, the only one he ever feared.

[00:32:57] This is a good one.

[00:32:58] This is where Voldemort appears and they have a little duel.

[00:33:01] Dumbledore and Voldemort.

[00:33:03] But one of my questions for you to start is how do you think Sirius' death is going

[00:33:08] to affect Harry?

[00:33:11] Like will this be something that he carries into the next book?

[00:33:14] Yeah, for sure.

[00:33:16] Because I feel like that was.

[00:33:19] Like he has friends in Ron and Hermione and like some of the order, but I feel like that

[00:33:26] was the most.

[00:33:28] He actually loves someone, I think.

[00:33:31] So I feel like he's just going to get really lonely and kind of just close himself off.

[00:33:36] It's everything.

[00:33:37] Yeah, because he kind of did that in this book.

[00:33:39] He really closed himself off because he was dealing with Cedric stuff.

[00:33:42] But yeah, in the next one, this is someone that he loves even more.

[00:33:45] So trying to process through that would be rougher for him.

[00:33:50] Yeah.

[00:33:51] And he's not good about talking about his feelings.

[00:33:54] Yeah.

[00:33:55] Or whatever he's processing through at the moment.

[00:33:58] He's terrible at that.

[00:33:59] Yeah.

[00:34:00] He doesn't know how to.

[00:34:01] Yeah, he needs some therapy, my guy.

[00:34:04] What do you think about him using an unforgivable curse, though?

[00:34:07] This is like part of the discussion that we were just having, but.

[00:34:11] I don't care.

[00:34:12] I think it's cool.

[00:34:13] Oh my gosh.

[00:34:16] All right.

[00:34:18] Yeah.

[00:34:18] I mean, unforgivable.

[00:34:20] Everything's relative.

[00:34:22] Okay.

[00:34:23] I feel like that's not great, especially you're kind of still a kid.

[00:34:29] Like, I don't think you should be doing that if you're a kid.

[00:34:32] But I mean, she's trying to kill him.

[00:34:36] Fair enough.

[00:34:36] Yeah.

[00:34:36] Like, this is a pretty high stakes situation.

[00:34:39] But Harry, the unforgivable curse that he's choosing to use is Crucio, which is torture.

[00:34:44] Yeah, that's not for sure.

[00:34:45] It's not, you know.

[00:34:49] But like, what else are you going to do?

[00:34:50] He's not going to kill her.

[00:34:52] And he's not going to, like, imperious her.

[00:34:57] Like, that's the only option.

[00:35:00] No, he has a lot more options.

[00:35:02] I know.

[00:35:03] I'm saying out of the three unforgivable.

[00:35:04] Yeah, the three unforgivable curses for sure.

[00:35:06] I think this moment is a really well-written moment because it does show the conundrum

[00:35:10] that we were just talking about.

[00:35:11] It shows how angry Harry is in this moment to the point where, I mean, this is like such

[00:35:17] a human reaction.

[00:35:18] Someone that you love dies and you're just going off.

[00:35:20] It doesn't, like, the law doesn't abide to you anymore.

[00:35:22] You were just, like, whoever did this to the person that you love, you're going after them.

[00:35:28] So I think it's a great bit of writing because it's very relatable.

[00:35:33] But then when you look back on the story, you're like, was this right?

[00:35:37] I don't know.

[00:35:38] I wonder what Harry thinks about the unforgivable curses, though.

[00:35:42] What do you mean?

[00:35:43] Because, like, everything, well, I don't know.

[00:35:48] A lot of things, like, you believe in or, like, your morals, the way you act flies out

[00:35:54] the window when you're angry and, like, you're acting out in anger.

[00:35:58] So, like, is that happening for Harry or is Harry just, like, doesn't really care about

[00:36:05] unforgivable curses or he's, like, seen them done enough at this point that it's, like, normal

[00:36:10] in his world?

[00:36:11] Like, that's just what people do.

[00:36:14] Or that's, like, the level of magic that he's kind of already in with the people around

[00:36:19] him.

[00:36:20] So it's, like, I don't know.

[00:36:22] You know?

[00:36:22] That's interesting.

[00:36:23] You know what I'm saying?

[00:36:24] Yeah, I know what you're saying.

[00:36:27] Because, like, people grow up, like, someone who's never been around drugs, it's, like,

[00:36:33] oh my gosh, drugs.

[00:36:34] But then there's, like, kids that grow up with drugs in the house, like, all the time

[00:36:37] and it's, like, not a big deal.

[00:36:38] Yeah, he's, like, numb to it.

[00:36:39] Yeah.

[00:36:41] That's a fascinating question.

[00:36:42] What their perception is of it.

[00:36:44] I'm, like, I'm thinking in the same way what is Neville's perception of it because he's

[00:36:48] kind of, like, grown around the ramifications of something that's happened to him with a

[00:36:53] curse like that.

[00:36:54] I would think Neville's, like, vehemently against them.

[00:36:56] Yeah, for sure.

[00:36:58] But Harry hasn't had, like, well, his parents died.

[00:37:02] But I still don't think that would, like...

[00:37:04] Yeah.

[00:37:04] He's in the revenge...

[00:37:06] Yeah.

[00:37:06] ...zone after that.

[00:37:08] That's why I think, oh, man, all these curses are reprehensible and unforgivable.

[00:37:13] But sometimes I'm, like, when you look at Harry's story and Neville's story, I think Avada

[00:37:18] is almost better than Crucio.

[00:37:21] Like, Crucio seemed like...

[00:37:23] I think Imperio is actually one of the worst ones.

[00:37:25] They're all pretty terrible, you know?

[00:37:27] But Crucio's bad.

[00:37:28] Because he's tortured a person into insanity and, like, Neville has to see his parents like

[00:37:31] that all the time.

[00:37:33] Yeah, all of this stuff was making me sad.

[00:37:35] Like, Tonks getting attacked.

[00:37:37] I know.

[00:37:38] Neville getting attacked.

[00:37:41] Like, everything was just hitting me.

[00:37:43] I know.

[00:37:44] There's...

[00:37:45] Yeah, all the people that you love have fallen in love with this in the book.

[00:37:48] They're, like...

[00:37:48] They're all under attack right now.

[00:37:51] What did you think of Voldemort's, like, appearance in this section right now?

[00:37:55] So I'm gonna turn off my fan.

[00:37:58] What do I think of Voldemort's appearance?

[00:38:04] I don't know.

[00:38:05] Like, expected?

[00:38:15] He only...

[00:38:16] Does he only appear by the fountain thing?

[00:38:18] Is that when he shows up?

[00:38:20] Yeah, he shows up right there.

[00:38:24] And his intent was to kill Harry?

[00:38:26] Yeah.

[00:38:26] So you actually...

[00:38:27] So you just said it was expected.

[00:38:28] You actually thought that he was gonna show up.

[00:38:31] Like, you had no doubt in your mind that Voldemort was gonna show up?

[00:38:33] Yeah, I mean, I thought he was gonna be there, like, in the prophecy room.

[00:38:35] And him be, like...

[00:38:36] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:38:37] Hand it to me.

[00:38:37] I thought that was gonna be him.

[00:38:38] Yeah.

[00:38:39] But...

[00:38:39] Voldemort sends other people to do his bidding.

[00:38:41] Yeah.

[00:38:41] 99% of the time.

[00:38:48] Voldemort says this line that I'm gonna read a long one because it's great.

[00:38:52] And he says this.

[00:38:55] Well, first of all, there's a lot of great lines in this chapter.

[00:38:59] He says,

[00:39:00] It was foolish to come tonight.

[00:39:01] Come here tonight, Tom, said Dumbledore calmly.

[00:39:04] The Aurors are on their way.

[00:39:06] By which time I shall be gone and you will be dead, spat Voldemort.

[00:39:09] And it says,

[00:39:10] Dumbledore flicked his own wand.

[00:39:12] The force of the spell that emanated from it was such that Harry, though shielded by his golden guard,

[00:39:17] felt the hair stand on end as it passed.

[00:39:20] And this time, Voldemort was forced to conjure a shining silver shield out of thin air to deflect it.

[00:39:25] The spell, whatever it was, caused no visible damage to the shield, though a deep gong-like note reverberated from it.

[00:39:31] An oddly chilling sound.

[00:39:34] You do not seek to kill me, Dumbledore, called Voldemort.

[00:39:38] His scarlet eyes narrowed over the top of his shield.

[00:39:41] Above such brutality are you?

[00:39:44] We both know that there are other ways of destroying a man, Tom, Dumbledore said calmly.

[00:39:48] Continuing to walk toward Voldemort as though he had not a fear in the world, as though nothing had happened to interrupt his stroll up the hall.

[00:39:56] Merely taking your life would not satisfy me, I admit.

[00:39:59] There is nothing worse than death, Dumbledore, Voldemort snarled.

[00:40:04] You are quite wrong, said Dumbledore, still closing in upon Voldemort and speaking as lightly as though he were discussing the matter over drinks.

[00:40:11] Harry felt scared to see him walking along, unshielded, undefended, unshielded.

[00:40:16] He wanted to cry out a warning, but his headless guardian kept shunting him backward toward the wall, blocking his every attempt to get out from behind it.

[00:40:25] But indeed, your failure to understand that there are things much worse than death has always been your greatest weakness.

[00:40:33] Why would Dumbledore not be satisfied to take Voldemort's life?

[00:40:38] I mean, it's again, one of the questions we were even talking about before, but there's something else behind that part of the story.

[00:40:45] I just took it as Dumbledore wants to make Voldemort suffer.

[00:40:50] Ooh.

[00:40:51] Instead of just like putting out his misery.

[00:40:53] That's it.

[00:40:55] Wow.

[00:40:55] But after our whole discussion, now I don't know.

[00:40:59] That's like the boat, or that's below Dumbledore.

[00:41:04] But I don't know.

[00:41:06] I think it, I forget where it was, but like something I heard like Death is a Kindness.

[00:41:13] I think that was in a show I watched.

[00:41:15] And then, yeah, that just stuck with me.

[00:41:19] And I think about that like all the time.

[00:41:23] Is it, are you Googling it?

[00:41:25] Thomas Shelby.

[00:41:26] Oh yeah, Peaky Blinders.

[00:41:27] There it is.

[00:41:28] Yeah, so Death is a Kindness.

[00:41:30] And like, I see that in here a little bit, like how sometimes like just persisting is worse than just like giving up and just dying.

[00:41:43] So, I don't know.

[00:41:44] But it seems weird for Dumbledore to like cause someone so much suffering.

[00:41:48] Yeah.

[00:41:48] Like that seems out of his nature.

[00:41:50] Yeah, it's very true.

[00:41:51] But I just took it as like, I can make you suffer for so long that you will like beg me to die.

[00:42:00] That's so dark.

[00:42:03] That's what I thought.

[00:42:04] Wow.

[00:42:06] Dumbledore, you really have a low opinion of Dumbledore.

[00:42:08] Actually, I will say I really like Dumbledore after this.

[00:42:12] Yeah?

[00:42:13] Yeah.

[00:42:13] This book, I definitely trust him a lot more.

[00:42:16] I definitely like him a lot more.

[00:42:19] That's fascinating.

[00:42:20] Yeah.

[00:42:21] Like, I feel like you were always like, Lizzie has zero trust in Dumbledore.

[00:42:25] I didn't hate him as a character or anything.

[00:42:28] But after this book, I definitely like would say I like him as a character.

[00:42:33] Wow.

[00:42:33] Okay.

[00:42:34] And I trust him more.

[00:42:35] Is that because he was just kind of being more open and honest about things?

[00:42:39] Yeah.

[00:42:40] And like, he's not just telling Harry what's going on.

[00:42:45] But like, I can understand his point of view of why he was acting the way that he was in the previous books.

[00:42:51] Yeah.

[00:42:51] So it's not just like, okay, he's done something that I like trust or he's saying something that I believe.

[00:42:57] It's like, okay, you're also explaining your behavior of why I didn't like you for the past four books.

[00:43:03] So that's like, we can put that aside and I can look at it now and then I can go forward.

[00:43:08] But yeah, now I like him.

[00:43:09] So.

[00:43:10] All right, good.

[00:43:10] So I can stop saying that.

[00:43:11] You hate Dumbledore so much.

[00:43:13] Yeah, we'll see.

[00:43:17] Man, okay.

[00:43:18] Okay.

[00:43:20] We'll talk about Dumbledore in the next chapter because that's like his chapter.

[00:43:28] So there's another line that it says, he was gone from the hall.

[00:43:32] He was locked in the coils of a creature with red eyes.

[00:43:35] So tightly bound that Harry did not know where his body ended and the creatures began.

[00:43:39] They were fused together, bound by pain and there was no escape.

[00:43:43] And Harry goes, let the pain stop, thought Harry.

[00:43:46] Let him kill us.

[00:43:46] End it.

[00:43:47] Dumbledore.

[00:43:48] Death is nothing compared to this and I'll see Sirius again.

[00:43:51] What do you think about these lines?

[00:43:54] I underline death is nothing compared to this and I'll see Sirius again.

[00:43:58] Because that's so dangerous like when you lose somebody or when you start getting all like,

[00:44:05] woe is me type of thing and you just like want to give up.

[00:44:08] Yeah.

[00:44:09] Like that's risky.

[00:44:10] Yeah.

[00:44:10] But I mean, this is like Harry's being possessed in this moment.

[00:44:16] So it's not like just his thought, I don't think.

[00:44:18] But yeah, it's like, I don't like that.

[00:44:21] It makes me sad.

[00:44:22] It freaks me out.

[00:44:24] Yeah.

[00:44:25] It's a little slippery slope right there.

[00:44:27] But I mean, that's worse than death, I guess, is what he's saying is just like existing in the possessed state.

[00:44:32] Like one with Voldemort is worse than just dying.

[00:44:36] And like, I think just basing it off of what he saw in the veil, like I don't think Harry knew anything about like what the wizard afterlife is like.

[00:44:44] So he's probably like, oh, everybody's just like having a party down there behind the veil.

[00:44:47] I can hear people talking.

[00:44:48] Yeah.

[00:44:48] Obviously, Sirius is like right there.

[00:44:51] Yeah.

[00:44:51] And will just live normally forever.

[00:44:53] So I don't know if somebody I don't know what it's like after you die.

[00:44:58] But if somebody could explain it to Harry, maybe Harry would not.

[00:45:03] There's more hope, yeah.

[00:45:03] Yeah.

[00:45:03] Like he wouldn't just want to like willingly go.

[00:45:08] But I'm going to compare.

[00:45:10] I like so I'm reading another book right now.

[00:45:12] And there's a character that I don't like as much as I like Harry.

[00:45:16] And there's one of the biggest reasons for it is this specific reason here.

[00:45:20] It's the character's responses to death.

[00:45:23] And one of them, the person that the character loves dies and the character doesn't really think twice about it or bat an eye.

[00:45:30] And here, Harry has loved Sirius with everything.

[00:45:34] He hasn't really spent a lot of time with Sirius, but he loves him with everything in him.

[00:45:37] And then Harry is experiencing the conundrum that I think all humans experience is what you're describing really well is how do you go on living when something like this happens to you?

[00:45:47] He's like, wouldn't it be better to just die right now, which is a really dangerous thing.

[00:45:51] But it's what everyone feels if someone like they love has died.

[00:45:55] Truly, truly love.

[00:45:56] You see this with like people who have been married for a long time and like, you know, the spouse dies.

[00:46:00] This happens a lot with marriage.

[00:46:01] If the wife dies first, usually the husband is pretty close to follow after.

[00:46:04] How about like my grandparents?

[00:46:07] It happens with a lot of people that I know.

[00:46:11] So it's like the will to live kind of loses out a bit, but it's such an instant reaction.

[00:46:19] And it's like it shows that you truly did love really well.

[00:46:24] You're going to have a really hard time thinking how you could live without this other person, not this other person is gone.

[00:46:29] I loved Harry's response.

[00:46:30] And yes, this other book that I'm reading, I hated this other kid's response because it just didn't make sense.

[00:46:35] It didn't compute with me.

[00:46:35] It didn't seem human to just let this thing brush by you so easily.

[00:46:42] That's why I love Harry in this.

[00:46:45] I think there's also like a type of, I guess it's grief or it's like the time before grief begins where it's just like nothingness and you can't cry or you can't like, you're just like cold to it.

[00:47:03] Yeah.

[00:47:04] So I don't know, like Harry's not experiencing that, but also just like what you're saying about the other character you're reading about.

[00:47:12] It's like there can be a time of just like emptiness.

[00:47:17] But then like it's, I think it's good that grief begins or like that emotion starts.

[00:47:23] Yep, for sure.

[00:47:24] That's a great point.

[00:47:26] That's a great point.

[00:47:26] Maybe I'll read that character different now.

[00:47:28] Because like, I don't know if that person just died or if they've lived through it.

[00:47:34] But yeah, there's a point too where sometimes you have to like table your grief.

[00:47:37] Like terrible things happen and like, you know, you're in the midst of something and it needs to wait until you can actually like, you know, have the proper time to grieve.

[00:47:44] So it's a great point.

[00:47:48] All right, let's go to chapter 37, which is the lost prophecy.

[00:47:54] In which Dumbledore and Harry have a long conversation and they talk about the prophecy and all of Dumbledore's errors and mistakes.

[00:48:03] And he confesses all those things.

[00:48:07] Now, this is one of the first lines I want to talk about.

[00:48:10] It says it was unbearable.

[00:48:12] He would not think about it.

[00:48:14] He could not stand it.

[00:48:15] There was terrible hollow inside him.

[00:48:16] He did not want to feel or examine a dark hole where Sirius had been, where Sirius had vanished.

[00:48:21] He did not want to be, he did not want to have to be alone with that great silent space.

[00:48:26] He could not stand it.

[00:48:28] And Dumbledore comes back and says, let me out, Harry said yet again, in a voice that was cold and almost as calm as Dumbledore's.

[00:48:34] Not until I've had my say, said Dumbledore.

[00:48:37] Do you, do you think I want to, do you think I give a, I don't care what you've got to say, Harry roared.

[00:48:44] I don't want to hear anything you've got to say.

[00:48:46] I, you will, said Dumbledore steadily, because you are not nearly as angry with me as you ought to be.

[00:48:52] You are attacking me as I know you are close to doing.

[00:48:55] I would like to have thoroughly earned it.

[00:48:59] Dumbledore kind of says he's to blame for all this kind of stuff.

[00:49:01] Is Dumbledore to blame for all this?

[00:49:05] I don't know.

[00:49:06] I see his point of view, but I also wouldn't pin it on him and say, no, it's not your fault.

[00:49:11] Like it just has to happen one way or another.

[00:49:14] But I really like this chapter.

[00:49:18] I love how Dumbledore talks to Harry and deals with Harry and lets him just rampage.

[00:49:24] Destroy the office.

[00:49:25] And he's just, just goes with the flow.

[00:49:29] So it's a great person who can like receive another person's grief in the way that Dumbledore is receiving here.

[00:49:34] It's one of the reasons I love Dumbledore.

[00:49:38] Yeah.

[00:49:38] Cause I mean, Dumbledore is grieving too.

[00:49:41] And nobody thinks about that.

[00:49:43] Yeah.

[00:49:43] I haven't even thought about that until you mentioned that.

[00:49:46] That's a great point.

[00:49:47] Dumbledore is a human too.

[00:49:48] He's grieving, you know?

[00:49:49] He knew serious forever.

[00:49:50] Yeah.

[00:49:50] That's a great point.

[00:49:52] Like the, the strength that it takes to experience the same pain as somebody else and be there for them and like wait through their anger and wait through their grieving process and give it to them in a way that like they need to hear it.

[00:50:08] And like just give them the space while you're experiencing the same exact pain and nobody's doing it for you.

[00:50:13] Like that's immense strength to be able to do that.

[00:50:15] Dude, that's, that's a really, that's wise.

[00:50:21] Wow.

[00:50:23] I love the way she writes grief in this book too.

[00:50:26] This is like probably my favorite part of this book is just like the way she puts it in little sentences and just like here and there is like serious this or like now I'm alone.

[00:50:37] And like, it's just these little moments where like your mind starts to wander.

[00:50:42] Yeah.

[00:50:42] It's just like so accurate.

[00:50:44] And I think it's such an, especially as a children's book, like it's hard to write grief in general.

[00:50:49] Oh yeah.

[00:50:50] But I think it's very, it's very approachable way and a very accurate way to give it to kids.

[00:50:56] And even just like, I'm enjoying it as an adult.

[00:50:58] Like I think it's accurate like that, but yeah.

[00:51:02] Cause there's never this like big moment of just like, he's angry, but he doesn't just like have a breakdown and just give up and like cry in a puddle on the floor.

[00:51:12] Like it's just like, he's walking around and there's a thought about serious.

[00:51:16] Yep.

[00:51:17] Yeah.

[00:51:17] So good.

[00:51:18] I know that's one of my favorite parts of her writing as well is how she writes grief and sadness.

[00:51:22] And I think she is one of the best in the business because generally it's like, uh, it's like, um, I did some journalism, like, uh, some journalism classes, um, in grad school.

[00:51:35] And my teacher, this is the constant refrain she had when she was teaching us to write.

[00:51:41] She was like, understate everything.

[00:51:44] She's like, your audience will be more haunted if you understate deadly severe facts and you just write them as fact and don't even like write.

[00:51:54] Cause she's like, you're going to go, you're going to go through some of these dramatic moments.

[00:51:57] And that's really what journalism is.

[00:51:58] You're not, you're just kind of spouting the facts.

[00:51:59] You're not really like, you're not supposed to dress up anything, but like even in normal writing, she's like, if you look at some of the best writers alive today, they write their stories.

[00:52:08] And they, in these super dramatic moments, they are so understated for how dramatic they are in these, like these, the, the people who aren't good writers are the people who like, you know, there's like 20 chapters or 20 pages of a chapter.

[00:52:21] I'm like, you know, everything that Harry is experiencing, all the grief that he's experienced.

[00:52:24] How is it like, you know, he's ripping this little piece of paper up from like any, they describe like in, you know, 20 paragraphs, how much he rips up this piece of paper.

[00:52:31] And you're like, you know, but Joe writes this and it's like a few lines here and there, just like small little lines.

[00:52:39] And it's the same thing.

[00:52:40] All the best children's authors are just understated in how they write about this stuff.

[00:52:44] And I think that she is one of the best and how she writes grief.

[00:52:47] So that's a good pickup.

[00:52:50] Yeah.

[00:52:52] But this is kind of where you get creatures stuff too.

[00:52:55] We, we kind of talked about that previous podcast.

[00:53:04] Okay.

[00:53:08] There's a lot of good lines in this one.

[00:53:10] Yeah.

[00:53:11] I feel like everything Dumbledore says.

[00:53:13] I know.

[00:53:13] I want to talk about.

[00:53:15] It is time for me to tell you what I should have told you five years ago, Harry.

[00:53:19] Please sit down.

[00:53:20] I'm going to tell you everything.

[00:53:22] I only ask for a little patience.

[00:53:23] You will have your chance to rage at me, to do whatever you like when I finished.

[00:53:28] I will not stop you.

[00:53:31] And then he kind of gives them all the information.

[00:53:37] Actually, right before we even talk about that, there's some really, like literally,

[00:53:41] I'm with you.

[00:53:42] Everything that Dumbledore says in this chapter is so good.

[00:53:44] He has this line about creature that I love.

[00:53:47] He says, creature is what he has been.

[00:53:49] A creature is what he has been made by wizards.

[00:53:52] Harry said Dumbledore.

[00:53:54] Yes.

[00:53:54] He doesn't be pitied.

[00:53:55] His existence is as miserable as your friend's job, as your friend Dobby's.

[00:53:58] He was forced to do Sirius' bidding because Sirius was the last of the family to which he was enslaved.

[00:54:03] But he felt no true loyalty to him.

[00:54:05] And whatever creature is fault, it must be admitted that Sirius did not make creatures a lot easier.

[00:54:11] I think that's such a good line.

[00:54:13] It's like, your treatment of people matters.

[00:54:16] Yeah.

[00:54:17] And creatures.

[00:54:19] I didn't love, I guess we can excuse Harry's behavior given the circumstances.

[00:54:28] But, like he was just harping on Dumbledore so much for just, like, the small stand up against Sirius for that.

[00:54:38] Yeah.

[00:54:39] With the house elves.

[00:54:41] Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[00:54:42] I was like, come on, Harry.

[00:54:43] Yeah.

[00:54:44] Come on.

[00:54:45] There's a moment where it's like, it's too soon for that kind of stuff.

[00:54:48] So you kind of get what Harry's saying.

[00:54:49] But you're like, all right, Harry, don't just rage at everything that Dumbledore says.

[00:54:51] Come on.

[00:54:56] What did you think about all the information that Dumbledore does give him with the idea of, like, remember my last, about the prophecy, about all these kind of things?

[00:55:05] I was right about that.

[00:55:07] I know.

[00:55:07] That was cool.

[00:55:08] I know.

[00:55:08] You were very cool.

[00:55:11] Yeah.

[00:55:11] What are my thoughts?

[00:55:12] That's, like, crazy.

[00:55:14] There's so much happening.

[00:55:16] There's so much explanation.

[00:55:18] I like the Snape explanation as well.

[00:55:22] Yeah, right?

[00:55:25] I like Snape a lot more now.

[00:55:28] You like Snape more.

[00:55:30] Yeah.

[00:55:35] Every time you say that, I'm like, is that not, like, the normal general thought?

[00:55:40] No, it fluctuates.

[00:55:41] People, you know, it's the same thing with Dumbledore.

[00:55:43] Some people love him.

[00:55:43] Some people hate him.

[00:55:44] Some people love Snape.

[00:55:45] Some people hate him.

[00:55:45] Um, I trust Severus Snape, said Dumbledore simply.

[00:55:49] And you kind of are trusting Dumbledore, so you can trust Dumbledore, you can trust Snape, I guess.

[00:55:55] What would cause you to not trust Snape?

[00:55:59] What would cause me to not?

[00:56:01] If you poisoned somebody?

[00:56:04] Like, if he actually gave, like, real Veritas serum to Umbridge.

[00:56:10] Ooh.

[00:56:10] Like, knowing that he didn't do that, like, that made me trust him more.

[00:56:14] Huh.

[00:56:17] Um, yeah.

[00:56:18] Um.

[00:56:19] Yeah.

[00:56:19] Cause that, like, he wasn't even taking a risk with that.

[00:56:21] Hmm.

[00:56:21] So, knowing that he didn't do that, I would feel like if he did something that would be risky or actually endanger Harry or take a stab at Dumbledore or Harry.

[00:56:34] Hmm.

[00:56:34] Hmm.

[00:56:35] That I would not like, obviously.

[00:56:37] But, I mean, he's part of the order, so he's pretty locked in.

[00:56:41] Yeah.

[00:56:43] Yeah.

[00:56:43] You know, like, why would you not trust him if he's in the order?

[00:56:47] Because he's also a death eater.

[00:56:51] Also, people, we didn't talk about Mundungus a lot, but, like, people don't like Mundungus.

[00:56:58] Mundungus is a scum.

[00:57:00] Well, like, what did he do again?

[00:57:02] Just because he's, like, robs people?

[00:57:05] They don't like him.

[00:57:06] Yeah.

[00:57:07] That's not great.

[00:57:08] He's just, uh, he's very, frugal is the wrong word.

[00:57:13] He's very, he's like a car salesman, you know?

[00:57:17] Like, you don't trust him.

[00:57:19] He's like.

[00:57:19] He's greasy.

[00:57:20] Yeah, yeah, greasy is the word.

[00:57:21] Exactly, yeah.

[00:57:23] Smells like tobacco.

[00:57:26] Hmm.

[00:57:28] Yeah, the order's a weird group, honestly.

[00:57:31] Yeah, it's a ragtag group of people.

[00:57:33] I feel like that's what a lot of rebellions are.

[00:57:35] It's like, you know, there's some people who are in it for the right reasons.

[00:57:38] There's other people who are, you know, just kind of tagging along.

[00:57:41] When Nuggets is someone who's kind of just tagging along.

[00:57:43] Just know some people.

[00:57:46] This is what the prophecy says, and I want to talk about the prophecy, and then I want

[00:57:48] to talk about a few more lines, and we'll do the last chapter, and we'll be done.

[00:57:53] Wow.

[00:57:54] It says, there the one with the power to vanquish the dark lord approaches.

[00:57:58] Born to those who have thrice to fight him.

[00:58:00] Born as the seventh month dies, and the dark lord will mark him as his equal.

[00:58:04] But he will have power the dark lord knows not.

[00:58:06] And either must die at the hand of the other, for neither can live while the other survives.

[00:58:11] The one with the power to vanquish the dark lord will be born as the seventh month dies.

[00:58:21] What do you think?

[00:58:25] I, when they said it could have been Neville, I was freaking out.

[00:58:30] Like, I slammed my book on my bed.

[00:58:35] I was like, I was literally just like, what?

[00:58:39] There's no way.

[00:58:40] What?

[00:58:41] Like, just me alone in my room, reading it, just talking to myself.

[00:58:45] And, like, I guess we figured out that it is Harry.

[00:58:49] Yeah.

[00:58:49] But, like, it's only Harry because Voldemort chose it to be Harry.

[00:58:54] Yes, exactly.

[00:58:55] It could have been Neville.

[00:58:57] Yeah, like, he is the, like, creator of his own fate.

[00:59:03] Yep.

[00:59:04] Dumbledore marked him as his equal, so that's why Harry, or Voldemort marked him as his equal.

[00:59:08] Why did Voldemort choose Harry over Neville?

[00:59:11] You remember?

[00:59:13] Something about his parents.

[00:59:16] They came against him three times or something.

[00:59:19] Nah.

[00:59:20] Harry's half-blood.

[00:59:21] Neville's a pure-blood.

[00:59:22] Why is he a half-blood if both his parents were at Hogwarts?

[00:59:25] Because his mother was a muggle-born.

[00:59:31] Oh, so you can be a half-blood but still have two wizarding parents?

[00:59:35] Yeah.

[00:59:36] Most people are half-blood in the wizarding world.

[00:59:37] There's very few people who are pure-blood.

[00:59:39] There's a family, there's like a section.

[00:59:41] Have I talked about the sacred 28 before?

[00:59:44] There's 28 pure-blood families in Great Britain, and that's pretty much it.

[00:59:54] So, like, a wizard is not a muggle?

[00:59:57] Wait.

[00:59:58] I don't know how genetics works with that.

[01:00:00] You need to explain this to me.

[01:00:02] Because Hermione, if Hermione's, both of Hermione, or no, yeah.

[01:00:06] We can even talk about Hermione.

[01:00:07] Both of Lily's parents are muggle.

[01:00:11] What percentage wizard is Lily?

[01:00:16] I guess it would just be like a heterozygous recessive genotype or something.

[01:00:25] Or like multiple loci.

[01:00:28] Like, it's not just two alleles.

[01:00:31] I don't know how that works.

[01:00:32] None of what you said just competed with me.

[01:00:34] But it sounded really impressive.

[01:00:36] I don't think it is impressive at all.

[01:00:39] I don't know.

[01:00:39] Because you're just saying they're both muggles, and they're not active wizards.

[01:00:48] Yeah.

[01:00:48] So, somewhere in their, I guess, both sides of them, they have a wizard history.

[01:00:56] And then it just has to be both of that contributes to the, yeah.

[01:01:03] It's interesting, actually.

[01:01:04] Some part of me thinks as well that sometimes a wizard can just be like, can just come out of nowhere.

[01:01:11] Yeah, because it's magic.

[01:01:12] It's not real.

[01:01:13] Yeah.

[01:01:14] Sorry to burst your bubble.

[01:01:17] You're not a wizard.

[01:01:18] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:01:19] I don't know.

[01:01:21] So, Voldemort is also, his mom is not a witch.

[01:01:27] Oh, his mom or his dad?

[01:01:29] No, I think it's his mom.

[01:01:31] Okay.

[01:01:32] Well, next question.

[01:01:35] Whatever.

[01:01:36] Whatever.

[01:01:38] Why do you think it's his mom?

[01:01:39] I thought he said it was his mom.

[01:01:43] I thought he was like, both of us are moms or both.

[01:01:47] Like, when he was in the cauldron, like, cooking with the.

[01:01:51] He says, I stand upon the bones of my filthy muggle father.

[01:01:54] Oh.

[01:01:57] Or Harry stands upon him.

[01:01:59] So, his mother was a witch, and his father was a muggle.

[01:02:06] Maybe we'll get into more of that.

[01:02:08] We'll see.

[01:02:11] Yeah, the odd thing, Harry, he said softly, is that it may not have meant you at all.

[01:02:17] Sybil's prophecy could have applied to two wizard boys, both born at the end of July that year.

[01:02:22] Both of whom had parents in the Order of the Phoenix.

[01:02:24] Both set of parents having narrowly escaped Voldemort three times.

[01:02:28] One, of course, was you.

[01:02:30] The other was Neville Longbottom.

[01:02:35] Neville.

[01:02:36] And then this is like the, yeah, I love him so much.

[01:02:40] There is a room in the Department of Mysteries, interrupted Dumbledore, that is kept locked at all times.

[01:02:45] It contains a force that is at once more powerful and more terrible than death, than human intelligence, than the forces of nature.

[01:02:52] It also, perhaps, is the most mysterious of the many subjects for study that reside there.

[01:03:00] It is a power held within that room that you possess in such quantities, in which Voldemort has none at all.

[01:03:06] That power took you to save Sirius tonight.

[01:03:10] That power has also saved you from possession by Voldemort, because he could not bear to reside in a body so full of the force he detests.

[01:03:17] In the end, it mattered not that you could not close your mind.

[01:03:20] It was your heart that saved you.

[01:03:24] So good.

[01:03:26] That was good.

[01:03:28] Any other points in this chapter before you go on?

[01:03:32] No.

[01:03:33] It's okay.

[01:03:41] Yeah.

[01:03:44] That's it.

[01:03:48] Okay, let's do chapter 38, which is the second where it begins, the last chapter in this book.

[01:04:04] This is, yeah, this is when we get the Madame Pomfrey line that you were talking about before.

[01:04:07] That's such a good one.

[01:04:16] Oh, this is like, he opens Sirius' gift, he talks to Luna, Dumbledore comes back.

[01:04:26] Yeah.

[01:04:27] Isn't that devastating when he opens the gift and he realizes that could have saved him the whole entire time?

[01:04:32] Yeah.

[01:04:34] And I was, I think it's good that he was hopeful for the moment.

[01:04:40] Yeah.

[01:04:41] Instead of just being like, immediate regret and like, I should have done this.

[01:04:46] I should have, I could have saved him.

[01:04:48] Yeah.

[01:04:48] But yeah, that hurt.

[01:04:50] I know.

[01:04:51] Because there's moments like it's confirmed that he's dying.

[01:04:55] There's Harry still has hope.

[01:04:57] Then even when he goes to Nick.

[01:05:00] Yeah.

[01:05:00] Yeah.

[01:05:01] That's a devastating dialogue that they have.

[01:05:05] Ups and downs.

[01:05:06] Yeah.

[01:05:06] Like the mirror and he thinks he's going to see him and be able to talk to him and he can't.

[01:05:11] And then he thinks he's going to see him as a ghost and he can't.

[01:05:15] And the mirror is gone, right?

[01:05:17] Like the mirror is not.

[01:05:19] Didn't Dumbledore move that to a secure place or something?

[01:05:23] Maybe.

[01:05:23] I don't know.

[01:05:23] That's a good question.

[01:05:24] Actually.

[01:05:25] The mirror might still be at 12 Grimald Place.

[01:05:29] Maybe it's just like hanging out there now.

[01:05:32] No, the mirror of Ares said.

[01:05:34] Oh, the mirror of Ares said.

[01:05:35] Yeah.

[01:05:35] Dumbledore moved that to a safe place.

[01:05:37] Yeah.

[01:05:37] Yeah.

[01:05:38] Because then he can't just go visit him.

[01:05:40] Yeah.

[01:05:42] Which is tragic.

[01:05:43] I know it's tragic.

[01:05:44] Yeah.

[01:05:44] Yeah.

[01:05:44] For sure.

[01:05:45] And there's, there's a point to it.

[01:05:46] It's tragic, but at the same time, Harry has to move on.

[01:05:49] Yeah.

[01:05:49] Yeah.

[01:05:49] It's like, you can't just sit and dwell.

[01:05:51] Does not do well to, it does not do to dwell in dreams and forget to live.

[01:05:56] Sounds like Dumbledore said that or something.

[01:06:00] Which he did.

[01:06:00] It's a good quote.

[01:06:01] I'm just quoting Dumbledore.

[01:06:02] I like it.

[01:06:04] Um, here's a nice little line.

[01:06:07] Cause I know we were talking about in a previous podcast, whether Harry was like an introvert

[01:06:12] or an extrovert, but he was finding it hard at the moment to decide whether he wanted

[01:06:16] to be with people or not.

[01:06:17] Whenever he was in company, he wanted to get away.

[01:06:20] And whenever he was alone, he wanted company.

[01:06:22] He thought he might really go and visit Hagrid though.

[01:06:25] He had not talked to him properly since he has returned.

[01:06:28] And then he goes to Hagrid for like a minute.

[01:06:32] Yeah.

[01:06:32] And it doesn't work.

[01:06:33] But yeah, you're just like uncomfortable everywhere you go.

[01:06:37] I know.

[01:06:37] There's no, there's no curing that.

[01:06:43] But I love when he talks to Luna.

[01:06:45] Oh my gosh.

[01:06:46] I know.

[01:06:47] That was beautiful.

[01:06:48] Because there are those people in there.

[01:06:50] Like the, I don't understand what it is about these people.

[01:06:54] I think people like that need to be studied because when you're going through grief,

[01:07:00] generally you're feeling the same exact thing as Harry felt, you don't want to talk to anybody.

[01:07:06] And some people do.

[01:07:08] I mean, it's different for different people.

[01:07:09] Like, I mean, I'm an introvert, so I completely understand what Harry is going through here.

[01:07:12] But there is always that one person who knows how to cut through that, who knows how to deal

[01:07:16] with death in a way that other people don't.

[01:07:18] And Luna is like that to a T.

[01:07:20] Like, you know, I don't want to talk to anybody because they're all going to bring certain

[01:07:24] things up.

[01:07:24] Luna's bluntness is a beautiful thing.

[01:07:28] And just like how she's able to navigate in this conversation without looking like she's

[01:07:32] going to like, you know, hurt or offend people.

[01:07:34] I like, like thirst for people like this in my life.

[01:07:41] You thirst for Luna?

[01:07:44] Thirst for Luna.

[01:07:46] Thirst trap.

[01:07:47] Nice.

[01:07:49] Because in moments where I like I've had to tell like people that I love to, you know,

[01:07:54] not to be more like Luna.

[01:07:55] That's not my exact words.

[01:07:57] But I'm like, you know, if I'm going through something, if I like if I like look sad or if

[01:08:02] I look like I'm going through something, I would love it if you just like, you know, cut through

[01:08:04] that and just talk to me and didn't bring up the stuff or didn't look like you're like walking

[01:08:08] on eggshells, you know, trying to figure out what to bring up.

[01:08:11] And if Harry does that, this is Ron and Hermione are going to walk on eggshells around him.

[01:08:14] But Luna, she's like, doesn't care about that.

[01:08:16] And I don't know what it is about certain people, but there are some people in this world who

[01:08:21] can do that so well.

[01:08:24] And yeah.

[01:08:25] And she's also able to like relate her own experience without it feeling like I don't

[01:08:31] know, like she's walking on eggshells for Harry because nobody else has really had that like

[01:08:37] out of his friends Neville in a way.

[01:08:39] But yeah, like she's able to just talk about herself in a way that's like comforting and

[01:08:45] helpful and not.

[01:08:48] Like, let me put everything on me.

[01:08:50] Yeah.

[01:08:50] Because that's the last thing you want to when you're like mourning and someone's like, oh,

[01:08:54] well, let me come and tell you about my experience.

[01:08:56] I hate when people do that.

[01:08:56] Like when I go tell someone something and they just start saying, oh, I this happened to

[01:09:01] me and I did that.

[01:09:02] I'm like, that's not a similar situation.

[01:09:05] And I can't help you.

[01:09:06] Like, obviously, I'm not in a good place right now either.

[01:09:10] Yeah.

[01:09:10] Yeah.

[01:09:11] It's just like trying to one up people almost.

[01:09:13] Yeah, for sure.

[01:09:13] But Luna's not like that.

[01:09:15] Yeah.

[01:09:15] Luna doesn't do that at all.

[01:09:16] It's not like that.

[01:09:17] I feel like they could kind of be good together.

[01:09:19] Yeah.

[01:09:20] Completely agree.

[01:09:21] Yeah.

[01:09:21] I think they would be.

[01:09:23] I think.

[01:09:24] Yeah.

[01:09:26] I kind of think Luna's too good for Harry.

[01:09:28] But.

[01:09:29] Really?

[01:09:30] I think I like Luna is just one of the people that I love the most in this series because

[01:09:34] she is just like transcendent.

[01:09:38] She's like a transcendent personality.

[01:09:40] She is so difficult to understand, but she is so plainly who she is.

[01:09:46] It's like such a anomaly and a conundrum.

[01:09:49] Like she's so deeply desires friends and like so values having these friends in her life.

[01:09:54] But at the same time, it doesn't seem like she like.

[01:09:58] Like maybe we're talking about like detachment.

[01:10:02] And it's like she is just steady.

[01:10:06] She's just stable.

[01:10:07] Like it doesn't matter what happens in her life.

[01:10:09] She's just seemed like she's steady and she can kind of weather the storms that come.

[01:10:15] I don't know.

[01:10:16] There's just something about her that I love.

[01:10:18] What house is she in again?

[01:10:20] She's a claw.

[01:10:22] Ravenclaw.

[01:10:25] Interesting.

[01:10:26] Yeah.

[01:10:32] What else?

[01:10:34] We get Professor Umbridge left Hogwarts the day before the end of the term.

[01:10:38] It seems she had crept out of the hospital wing during dinnertime, evidently hoping to depart

[01:10:42] undetected.

[01:10:42] But unfortunately for her, she met Peeves on the way, who seized his last chance to do

[01:10:46] as Fred had instructed and chased her gleefully from the premises, whacking her alternatively

[01:10:50] with a walking stick and a sock full of chalk.

[01:10:53] Many students ran out into the entrance hall to watch her running away down the path and

[01:10:56] the heads of the houses tried only half-heartedly to restrain them.

[01:11:00] Indeed, Professor McGonagall sank back in her chair at the staff table after a few feeble

[01:11:05] remonstrances and was clearly heard to express a regret that she could not run cheering after

[01:11:12] Umbridge herself because Peeves had borrowed her walking stick.

[01:11:17] It's so good.

[01:11:20] Um, and then, uh, this conversation that they have with Nick, Nick says Nick turned away

[01:11:28] from the window looking mournfully at Harry.

[01:11:30] He won't come back.

[01:11:32] Who?

[01:11:34] Sirius Black, said Nick.

[01:11:35] And so strong was his belief, Harry actually turned his head to check the door.

[01:11:40] Sure, for a split second that he was going to see Sirius, pearly white and transparent,

[01:11:44] but beaming, walking through it toward him.

[01:11:47] He will not come back, repeated Nick.

[01:11:49] He will have gone on.

[01:11:54] It's so good.

[01:11:56] It's so devastating.

[01:11:59] So, explain to me again the ghost situation.

[01:12:02] They're little casters.

[01:12:04] Um, we don't know that yet.

[01:12:06] Uh, there's theories on that.

[01:12:08] But, um, it's like...

[01:12:10] Because he's...

[01:12:12] Wait, he's talking to Nick?

[01:12:13] Mm-hmm.

[01:12:14] And didn't Nick say he was, like, scared of death?

[01:12:17] And that's why he didn't go?

[01:12:19] Yeah.

[01:12:20] Yep.

[01:12:20] Yeah.

[01:12:21] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:12:21] So, it seems like there's a point in a witch or a wizard's life where if they have severe

[01:12:29] unfinished business, I guess, on Earth, they have...

[01:12:33] They're in, like, a limbo state.

[01:12:34] And they have a period where they can either decide to move on and, like, fully die and

[01:12:43] be at peace and rest and be with the people that, you know, have died that you love.

[01:12:48] Or you can come back as a ghost, like a...

[01:12:52] Like a phantom, almost like a ghost.

[01:12:58] Wow.

[01:12:59] To accomplish your unfinished business?

[01:13:02] Yeah, kind of.

[01:13:03] Not necessarily to accomplish your unfinished business.

[01:13:05] I...

[01:13:05] Yeah, I guess it's kind of to accomplish your unfinished business.

[01:13:08] But you can never accomplish your unfinished business because you're a ghost.

[01:13:11] So, you're kind of tortured.

[01:13:12] But some people think that's, like, a good path in the moment and they become a ghost

[01:13:15] and then they try to accomplish it and they realize they can't really quickly and they

[01:13:20] just, you know, hang out.

[01:13:22] But you can't un-ghost yourself and go beyond.

[01:13:26] No.

[01:13:26] You can't un-ghost yourself.

[01:13:27] That'd be great if you could un-ghost yourself, to be honest.

[01:13:29] I think they...

[01:13:30] Yeah, just, like, when you're ready.

[01:13:31] Yeah, they should give it a second chance.

[01:13:32] Just another few weeks.

[01:13:35] Legitimately.

[01:13:36] Yeah.

[01:13:38] That would be great, honestly.

[01:13:40] That would be kind of great.

[01:13:44] How do you think...

[01:13:45] I mean, we actually talked about this.

[01:13:47] How will Harry kind of go on from here?

[01:13:49] But what do you...

[01:13:50] Here's the final question.

[01:13:51] What do you think this next book will be about?

[01:13:58] What's it called?

[01:13:59] What's the title?

[01:14:00] Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince.

[01:14:02] The Half-Blood Prince.

[01:14:06] Isn't that, like, Snape?

[01:14:08] I don't know.

[01:14:09] Like, it's just...

[01:14:12] There's, like, some journal thing that has, like, potions in it.

[01:14:16] Ooh, okay.

[01:14:17] Or, like, a notebook.

[01:14:18] That's coming somewhere.

[01:14:20] Okay, okay.

[01:14:20] You're pulling that from the...

[01:14:21] Yeah, that's my only memory.

[01:14:23] All right.

[01:14:24] I don't know.

[01:14:24] I think Harry's gonna be way different.

[01:14:27] I kind of hope he's gonna be, like, more grown up.

[01:14:30] Yeah.

[01:14:30] And mature.

[01:14:31] Yep.

[01:14:32] Probably a little less volatile.

[01:14:36] Like, a little more thoughtful.

[01:14:38] Yeah.

[01:14:39] But, yeah.

[01:14:40] I don't know.

[01:14:41] I mean, probably, like...

[01:14:44] I guess now the whole world knows that Voldemort's out.

[01:14:48] Mm-hmm.

[01:14:49] And is real.

[01:14:50] Mm-hmm.

[01:14:50] So the whole world is gonna get incorporated into this.

[01:14:53] Mm-hmm.

[01:14:54] And not just the Order and the Death Eaters.

[01:14:57] Mm-hmm.

[01:14:58] I'm making some really general statements.

[01:15:03] And, yeah.

[01:15:04] I mean, Dumbledore's back.

[01:15:06] So I don't know if this whole thing with the fudge...

[01:15:08] The fudge?

[01:15:09] The fudge.

[01:15:10] The fudgicle.

[01:15:11] You know, the fudgicle.

[01:15:12] Oh, fudgicles.

[01:15:13] Those are so good.

[01:15:15] I know.

[01:15:16] They are.

[01:15:17] I haven't had those in forever.

[01:15:19] My grandma always used to have them.

[01:15:22] Ooh.

[01:15:22] Good memory.

[01:15:24] Yeah.

[01:15:25] Yeah.

[01:15:26] So maybe fudge is gonna be normal.

[01:15:30] Or maybe fudge is gonna be extra annoying and hate Dumbledore even more.

[01:15:35] Oh, okay.

[01:15:35] I don't really know.

[01:15:36] We'll see.

[01:15:37] I don't have much expectations.

[01:15:42] Well, we'll see when we get there.

[01:15:44] Let me start reading the next book.

[01:15:45] Eee!

[01:15:46] It's gonna be good.

[01:15:47] I'm excited.

[01:15:48] Me too.

[01:15:49] I'm very excited.

[01:15:49] I keep thinking I'm very excited to get to Lord of the Rings, too.

[01:15:52] Yeah.

[01:15:52] I'm excited for when you finish.

[01:15:54] We'll probably finish in, like, the summer sometime when we'll get to Lord of the Rings.

[01:15:57] I would say maybe, like, a month we'll be done.

[01:16:03] I love it.

[01:16:04] Perfect.

[01:16:05] Perfect.

[01:16:06] Perfect.

[01:16:07] Perfect.

[01:16:08] You wanna close that?

[01:16:10] Yeah.

[01:16:11] Thanks for joining us on our journey of Harry Potter and the second time reader.

[01:16:15] Bye.

[01:16:16] See ya.

[01:16:17] Bye.

[01:16:17] Bye.

[01:16:17] Thank you.