Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix: Ch 13-16

[00:00:00] Why are you excited for detention with Dolores? This is like the worst chapter. No, it's so good. This is agony. I, okay, let me just say if I was in detention with Dolores, I would be scraping that thing so hard and I would make it permanent.

[00:00:17] Like I would go easy like the first two days and then on like Friday night, I would be like chiseling that into my hand. Hold on. Just hold that thought because we're going to do the intro and then we're going to go. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Jon.

[00:00:31] I'm Lizzie. And this is Harry Potter and the Second Time Readers. We're going to do chapter 13 right now, which is detention with Dolores. And why do you want that thing etched in your... It's so cool. Like would you get a tattoo of that?

[00:00:58] Yeah, I'm surprised that people like aren't getting tattoos of that. Some people have gotten tattoos of that. I think it's cool. There's a few very, not like niche things, but there's a few like more intense things to get tattoos of

[00:01:08] and people get the dark mark and they get I must not tell lies. That's crazy. Yeah, getting the dark mark is a little wild. Yeah, but I would just want it in my hand and then... Are you like a...

[00:01:20] You have a high pain tolerance, but do you have like... Are you like a glutton for pain? Yeah, like I would probably enjoy that. I don't know. I don't think I have a high pain tolerance necessarily. But like hearing that, I was like,

[00:01:35] ooh, like that kind of has to feel good I feel like. But I would just... Then I would have it scraped in my hand forever. Like make it absolutely permanent, absolutely so obvious. But why? What's your rationale for wanting to make it permanent?

[00:01:49] And then you can flip her off and just have I will not tell lies right at her face, right at umbrage. And then Harry can just like start telling the truth forever and just like in class all the time be like, you know what?

[00:02:03] I must not tell lies and then just like disrupt every class. That's where I see that going. All right, all right, so you can use it to your own advantage. I was also thinking, I was like if you move the paper,

[00:02:14] can you like move where it's carving it? Because then I definitely would start like doodling all over myself with that. Just get a permanent little like red tattoo all over your arm just from doodling it. That'd be kind of cool.

[00:02:27] But it would scar and it would be white I would think. They're definitely gonna honestly, they should have like a system that they do that. I'm sure like you can put your arm in some laser thing and start drawing on the side

[00:02:38] and it just like lazes your arm or something weird like that. People brand themselves. Yeah. That's crazy. Some of my college friends branded themselves with a paper clip and they threw a paper clip on it. They took a lighter and they lighted a paper clip

[00:02:49] and they branded all of them. They branded themselves. And I was like, you guys are idiots. Like what did they put? They just did. Two of them did like a cross and the other two did. I don't remember what the other two did. That's crazy.

[00:03:10] And I was like, you guys are absurd. Why would you ever want to do that? That's a strange take that you would actually want that. There is like a slight gratification that you can I guess experience. By having that on your arm

[00:03:27] and then every time you're in Umbridge's class, you can kind of like... I don't know. In a weird way, it almost like gives you power over her. Yeah. Because that's a weird part in this chapter and the rest of it

[00:03:39] because you're going on through different chapters in this. It's a weird thing why he just doesn't tell anybody but there's... Would you, if you were encountering this kind of torture, would you tell anybody? Um... Not like the Umbridge dynamic. If that was going on, I wouldn't tell anyone.

[00:04:01] I stand by him not saying it. But I would not hide this scar either. Like I wouldn't straight up say what's going on but I would just like leave it out. Yeah. That's a... I don't know what his rationale is for that.

[00:04:19] That one's always evaded me a little bit but I kind of get it a little bit. I'm like definitely a silent sufferer when I'm going through something. I don't want to tell anybody. And I don't know the psychology behind that. I really don't understand why that is.

[00:04:32] Well, for him, everybody keeps telling him to just like keep his head down, be quiet. Yeah. Don't cause any trouble and I feel like he's just like fine, I'll suck it up because everyone's going to tell me it's not going to matter and I'll just like keep...

[00:04:47] Yeah, that's kind of true. Because like McGonagall was literally... Like he was just talking to her and she's like you know what? Just stop. Just focus. Don't do anything. And like why would he want to go back to that for advice or for help? It's like...

[00:05:01] Yeah, especially because he doesn't feel supported at all because everyone... Like his story is becoming a conspiracy theory. So he doesn't feel believed or supported so I guess why would you want to tell anybody if you don't really feel believed or... Yeah and it's by multiple people too

[00:05:15] not just Umbridge. Yeah, for sure. But I'm feeling like this is maybe some weird way to like inadvertently make a dark mark and that's why it like hurt or something. Like she's creating some type of like dark mark thing for Harry

[00:05:34] and I was like maybe now Voldemort can like summon him or see him or... Like can... I don't know what a dark mark is necessarily. But do you think that... Wes? This is like the greatest day ever. He's chilling with me. Do you think that Umbridge and Voldemort

[00:05:58] are working in conjunction with one another? Yeah. I think so because why else would it like burn? Because... Yeah, I mean it's just be general torture. But I'm like if she has me a death eater I'm pretty sure. Okay. I don't know. I'm doubting everything.

[00:06:22] Yeah, because I was just like what if she's making some sort of like dark mark and then he can summon him or Voldemort can see him better or where's this blood going? Like maybe Voldemort's just sitting in another little cauldron just like waiting for more of Harry's blood.

[00:06:44] Like getting stronger. I don't know like all of it seems like there's so much that could be going on that it's more than just getting a little paper cut, you know. Interesting, okay. Or like are they making polyjuice of Harry, right? Because you need something. Yeah.

[00:07:04] They could be taking his blood to make polyjuice. Maybe that's why she's doing this. She just seems very sadistic so there could just be that she's doing it because she gets joy out of this. Yeah. We're going to discuss her as we go on.

[00:07:18] She's a really interesting person to talk about. What do you think her motive is? Like if every character has like a motive, even maybe this is a different one. If she looks into the mirror of Erised, what does she see? I don't know.

[00:07:35] Like I think she, going off her being a death eater, I would just assume that she's just working towards Voldemort's uprising and like that would be her goal and then maybe get like the rewards that he's offered her. So you really think that she's working hand in hand

[00:07:52] with Voldemort? Yeah, why do you not think that? No, I may just be gaslighting you. Maybe. I don't know because this is the thing that I... I've had to up my game for how I gaslight you so I'm like using a lot of Mr. X. Yeah.

[00:08:07] Why would you really think that? I was thinking that when I was driving today I was like we should have like a gaslighting count of like how much has he actually... I hope our podcast is gaslighting you. I don't even notice it at all.

[00:08:20] I'm just like, okay, I trust you. Yeah, I'm sorry. You don't have to do it. It's fine. It's all good. Yeah, because if she's working for Voldemort... Well, okay, let's backtrack. Okay. I think this is what I noticed about Umbridge

[00:08:41] is that in the beginning when she's giving her like first speech, like first words in the book she's talking about the ministry in Hogwarts and like I can't honestly disagree with a lot of what she says. Like what she says is pretty good. Okay.

[00:08:57] About like school's just school. You're not prepared for the real world. Like old things have to go and new has to come in. The execution of what she said is completely not how I feel. So the theory is great, the execution is terrible. Exactly.

[00:09:09] On paper what she says, I'm with you. But then in reality, no. But then so she's like a puppet of the ministry. And that's why she seems bad in the beginning. But then she goes to Harry and it's like she's evil to Harry in a specific way.

[00:09:27] And then she's evil to Hagrid in a specific way. And she hates like people very like personally. Like she'll stab you in the back but then just like and make it worse. That's why I think she's like she's like a perfect villain to me.

[00:09:45] Like she's maybe worse than Voldemort to me right now. Yeah. Because she's just like hitting people so personally for no reason. I don't know why, what is her reason? I don't know. But she's like, Voldemort's just in the background being a bad guy to everybody.

[00:10:00] And Umbridge, I feel like you just get more and more niche reasons of like, wow, I hate you. Wow, I hate you more. And it just gets worse and worse and worse. And like just the scene that she enters into it's just like and their kids. Yeah.

[00:10:18] It's just so bad. Yes. But she's such a good villain. Like I can't even like I'm almost enjoying her. Yeah. She is Stephen King. Stephen King, I mean, who writes ridiculous villains and horror stuff said she is the greatest villain since like Hannibal Lecter.

[00:10:38] I forgot exactly who she said or someone like that. Like one of these world renowned villains. Even Stephen King said that she was like the worst villain that he's encountered in literature in so long. She is hideous. And most people would agree with you.

[00:10:53] That's why it's fun that you're nailing this on the head because most people think that she is worse than Voldemort. At this point in the story. Yeah, at this point. Yeah, she is. She is pure evil, but you kind of respect that.

[00:11:05] You're like, no, it's really well-written character. And I have the feeling that like everything's going to be OK in the end. So I'm just like, it's fine. She'll probably get like, do like punishment at the end. Oh, OK. Interesting.

[00:11:19] Yeah, what maybe, maybe, maybe she'll get her due punishment at the end. I hope so. Like Harry can kill her or something. Yeah, she is. She's a witch. She is. She's awful. Oh, so we were talking about this before. But if you.

[00:11:44] If you had to detention with her and she was making you do this, you would just stand true with what you said, right? You would just like, you know, lip service, be like, oh, yeah, whatever.

[00:11:54] All you know, I can't what I said just so you can stop getting tortured. So I'm just like, OK, I'm going to do it. You know, I can't what I said just so you can stop getting tortured. You're sitting there like writing, you're like, this feels good.

[00:12:04] I will tell the truth. I tell no lies. I think that's cool because it's like it's like it's not a reward. Everyone's going to think I'm crazy, but it's like a reward for standing up for yourself and like standing up for what you think is right.

[00:12:20] It's like having I will not tell lies like etched into your body forever. Yeah, that's like pretty cool. Yeah, I just think that's sick. But would you get a tattoo of that ever? Um, I must not tell lies. Maybe in like a different language.

[00:12:39] Yes, he's just out there. No, probably not. I think it would be cool though. Yeah, it would be kind of cool. Maybe in like white ink because that's really like less noticeable. So there is one other note that I want to talk about.

[00:12:56] It might sound like a ridiculous question, but it says she moved toward him, stretching out her short ringed fingers for his arm. And then as she took hold of him to examine the words now cut into his skin, pain seared not across the back of his hand,

[00:13:12] but across the scar on his forehead. At the same time, he had a most peculiar sensation somewhere around his midriff, which is that's I don't know what that is, but why is his scar hurting when Umbridge is touching him? She's a death eater.

[00:13:29] But normal death eaters that only happens with Voldemort. What? Like only hurting other people? Only when Voldemort is near or touches Harry does Harry's scar hurt. It doesn't happen with death eaters because Snape. I don't feel like she's Voldemort. Okay, maybe.

[00:13:47] That seems way too far fetched for her to be like on Polyjuice or something. Okay, let's go on to chapter 14. Chapter 14 has some good stuff too. Chapter 14 is Percy and Padfoot. Do you remember what happened to this? I'll give a summary with you, but. Um, I don't know.

[00:14:10] I have to like flip through it. Just give me a summary. Yeah, we could even just like read the summary. I don't know if there's a summary that has on this. Oh, this is when Sirius uses the flu powder and shows up in the fireplace. Yeah, yeah.

[00:14:29] And this is when he gets a letter from Percy to like. Oh, yeah. Listen to the ministry that he thinks Umbridge is great and this is like lovely that the school is encountering this and going through this. He's a real dummy.

[00:14:44] But it's also like kind of where we get Hermione starts the House Elf Liberation Front. She's like sewing up little hats and socks for elves. How many how many house elves do you think that she has freed? No, and I didn't think she was anyway.

[00:15:03] I was like there's no way that works. But I feel like if she's a prefect, she shouldn't be doing that anyway. Like she's messing too much with the castle. Like that was my only ethical thing.

[00:15:15] I was like if she's a prefect, I feel like she should give it up. Okay, so you say she's messing with the castle, but is the castle wrong for? Now they're not employing. Are they what are they doing? Are they employing house elves? Yeah. Is that employment? Yeah.

[00:15:34] Are they getting paid? They don't want to get paid anyway. It doesn't matter if you don't want to get paid. It doesn't matter. Yeah, but I don't really care about house elves. They can just be slaves honestly. All right, well moving on.

[00:15:50] Yeah, I feel like it's bad to let them go because then they're just they want to be servants, you know? Okay. I believe them. You just kind of give them whatever they want. Percy says this though.

[00:16:05] He writes a letter and in this letter he says from something the minister let slip when telling me you are now a prefect. I gather that you are still seeing a lot of Harry Potter.

[00:16:14] I must tell you Ron that nothing could put you in danger of losing your badge more than continued fraternization with that boy. Yes, I am sure you are surprised to hear this. No doubt you will say that Potter has always been Dumbledore's favorite.

[00:16:28] But I feel bound to tell you that Dumbledore may not be in charge at Hogwarts much longer. And the people who count have a very different and probably more accurate view of Potter's behavior. I shall say no more here, but if you look at the Daily Prophet,

[00:16:44] I think he says like there's something tomorrow in the Daily Prophet or whatever. What is Percy talking about? And do you think that Dumbledore is going to be sacked by the end of this book? Like fired. I got that. You just gave me a look like huh?

[00:17:02] I feel like going where it's going with Umbridge right now. Yeah, he might get fired. I'm not 100% convinced because he still seems more powerful. But just the fact that she has the whole ministry behind her and the ministry is trying to get more and more control of Hogwarts.

[00:17:21] I feel like he could but I didn't really think about that much. To be honest, I felt like I was doubting if this was actually Percy or not. I was like is he Imperius? Oh interesting. Is this when everything starts going down?

[00:17:38] But I don't know or he's just persuaded or like pressured to do this. So yeah, go ahead. I was just gonna say that I don't think Percy and Harry were ever really that close. So like why does he care so much all of a sudden?

[00:17:53] Yeah, that's a good point. They really never were that close but Percy is definitely buddies with the ministry and the ministry seems to be going a certain way. But then Sirius says this at the very end with his letter. He says, which is a great line. He says,

[00:18:29] Because this is the section where he's like, let me come visit you or something like that. He says, What do you think of everything that Sirius said? But is he being a good godfather here? I don't think so.

[00:18:59] Because Harry, like James didn't have so many people's lives riding on his shoulders. Like his decisions didn't impact really anyone else except him and the Marauders. Whereas Harry, I feel like he has the weight of the world right now and many people's lives, the Order's lives.

[00:19:21] So I feel like Harry is just like probably he would do it. Like honestly, knowing his judgment, he's like not that smart. But yeah, I just feel like that was a low blow for Sirius. Yeah, he doesn't quite fulfill his fatherly roles really well.

[00:19:42] I think he thinks Harry is too much of a contemporary. Like he's trying to get like, my theory is that Sirius experienced trauma and he was essentially trapped in his like 19, 20 year old self.

[00:19:55] And so anytime that he's now out of prison and he's like hanging out with Harry, he's hoping Harry is going to fulfill the role of James, which he can't. Sirius just needs to grow up and be a father.

[00:20:06] But it's hard to do that when you've been wrongly accused of something and you've been put in prison for a long time. Wes, you know, you could just crawl under. I feel like Sirius is trying to live through Harry. Yeah. But I don't know. I don't.

[00:20:20] I never really thought that Sirius necessarily has to be like a father figure to Harry, even though that's kind of the reason of being a godfather. But who do you think is the most fatherly figure to Harry? Um, either Hagrid or Mr. Weasley.

[00:20:41] Okay, that's a good answer. I like that. Maybe like a little bit of Lupin, but not really. Yeah. Like he just likes Lupin. He's just like a mentor. Lupin is almost like more of a teacher to him than a father figure kind of. A good teacher.

[00:20:59] Yeah, I'd probably say Hagrid. Yeah. Yeah, there's not a clear person who is like the father figure to Harry here. But I think Hagrid is probably the closest that we get to it. I kind of like your answer too. Mr. Weasley definitely fulfills that role in certain ways.

[00:21:20] But Sirius, maybe he just never really saw himself in that role. Even though he is literally godfather. But I'm assuming he's never like parented anyone either. Yeah, that's a fair point. I'm picturing him like in my mind he's like 50 but he's not 50. He's like 30.

[00:21:39] But I picture him this like old like bachelor. Like, oh, it's just like me in the world just like alone. And I just like don't think he's like that kind of nurturing person anyway. Yeah, that's very true.

[00:21:56] Maybe that's more of his personality is to be less nurturing, more like devilish and like devilish like daredevilish. Yeah, that's a good point. Just like be friends with Harry. Yeah.

[00:22:10] Because at this point, Harry really just needs a friend. He feels abandoned by a lot of people and he feels like he has no information. And I think Sirius kind of is that to him in this book.

[00:22:19] But in certain ways, Harry needs him both to be a father figure and a friend. And it's hard to fill both those roles to be honest. Yeah, I feel like he wouldn't want him to be a father figure though.

[00:22:32] I think he just wants him to be his friend. But I think he needs a father figure. I don't know. But in this moment here, wouldn't you want your friend to come like visit you? Like because he's like, when's your next trip to Hogsmeade?

[00:22:44] Like let me come and like, you know, sneak and say hi. And Harry's like, no. But you also don't want your friend to die. Yeah, very true. Very true. But Harry is being more. Yeah, I guess that is more of like a protective thing.

[00:22:57] But it definitely seems like Harry sometimes gets frustrated at Sirius for not being fatherly toward him or maybe not fatherly, maybe just being stupid. Which I guess you can kind of do that with your friends too.

[00:23:08] Like when your friends are acting dumb or like brash about something, you're like, you guys are idiots. Like, no, don't do that. That's not safe. But if you do that, you're always like everyone's like, what do you like the parent of the friend group? Yeah, that's true.

[00:23:21] So Harry kind of acts a little bit more parental with Sirius and sometimes Sirius acts toward Harry. Yeah, honestly. But Sirius does have great lines there. Like one of my favorite lines in the whole series is the. You've mentioned that like so many times.

[00:23:36] I mentioned that in passing like a bunch. Why is that so important to you? Because I think it's I think it's so valuable to life is that there are people aren't good.

[00:23:47] Like there are some people who are very reprehensibly evil, like Hitler is a very, very terrible person. But this might raise a lot of controversy by me saying this. I think it's valuable to look into Hitler's personal life and to actually humanize him for for one real reason.

[00:24:07] Because I think when you see a human being can do that, it's like a warning that none of us should do that as well. Like some of these villains who are some of these the worst villains in the world.

[00:24:16] I'm curious what their backstory was like and why they became that way. Some of them are just sociopathic and they have like a personality disorder. But even like the greatest people that you know, Dumbledore is someone that everyone in the series loves. And just like flat out loves.

[00:24:31] And you don't like him at all, which I love that you don't like him because he's a very controversial figure in the series as well. So it's like people are much more complicated than just being good or bad. Everyone is going through something. Everyone is dealing with something.

[00:24:46] No one is perfect. Everyone that you think is perfect has some kind of flaw to them. And it's like when I, you know, turned like, I don't know, like 25 or something like that. I realized that my parents are human and I'm like the mistakes that they made.

[00:25:01] They made when I was like literally at my age and they had kids and like, you know, I can talk about that.

[00:25:07] But I realize that they're human now and I realize that the mistakes that they made were just because they were it was their first time through life. They're continually their first time through life.

[00:25:14] So these people that I think we revere, I think it's good to knock them down a few steps. And these people who are like heinously evil, I think it's actually interesting to study these people for why they became like this.

[00:25:27] Because it's a warning for like anybody, anybody can go down that path of darkness and also anybody can be redeemed from that, I think. So that I love that line for so many different reasons.

[00:25:38] Do you think Sirius has like the empathy for the people that are the Death Eaters though? No, no chance. Like he's definitely saying this, like not fully meaning it because he definitely believes there are evil people in the world.

[00:25:58] But again, I think it definitely is this spectrum of things. Like there are people who are like, you know, you have to fight against because they're evil in that present moment. And they're going to like hamper people who are actually good.

[00:26:08] And they're going to hamper like good going out. So like he's definitely, he definitely has to fight against these Death Eaters and these people. But I don't think in Sirius' mind either he reconciles or thinks that these people are worthy of redemption.

[00:26:20] So Sirius, I think is saying this, not honestly, but I think it's an honest statement. Yeah, I feel like Harry thinks very black and white. And he doesn't understand like all the nuance of the battles right now or like the allegiances.

[00:26:38] And I feel like Sirius is probably just trying to appeal to that and like make him see the spectrum a little bit more than just everyone is bad. Because even like the Malfoys, he's like so quick to sweep them over to just like, they're evil people.

[00:26:54] And there's a lot of bad people, but yeah, they're not all Death Eaters. Agreed, yeah. And that's why I saw one reason I really love this series. As well is because there is no perfectly pure person in this entire series.

[00:27:05] With one possible exception, Lily, Lily Potter, which there's controversy about a little bit. She doesn't have a ton of page time, but there are pure evil characters. But the pure evil characters, you get their backstory and Joe gives you an understanding for why they are like that.

[00:27:26] There's really, there's a few like very, very evil characters. But Umbridge is one of the most evil and you'll get some of her backstory. You don't get all of it, but she's one where it's like she's so horrendously evil. And Voldemort, you get some of his backstory.

[00:27:45] So when you're looking at Voldemort, you're going to like understand more about him in the next book. And it doesn't justify what he does by any stretch of the imagination. But you're like, oh, this is why he is the way that he is.

[00:28:00] With Umbridge, you don't really get that. So she's just flat out evil. Yeah, and I've had none of that so far. If there's any that's coming. But I do love that she gives all characters some kind of a backstory.

[00:28:12] She makes them more complex characters than just even the Malfoys. Like with what, with why they make decisions. It's a fascinating idea. They are, they value family maybe more than anybody else in this entire series. They value family. But they just, you know, are idiots.

[00:28:30] So I don't know. I just, I like the idea that the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters. But yeah, we'll get, we'll talk about that a lot more. Chapter 15 is the Hogwarts High Inquisitor. This is essentially just when Dolores becomes the High Inquisitor.

[00:28:48] Where she's kind of awarded this position. Where she has next to the Headmaster like almost absolute authority to do what she wants. I was literally shocked when I read this. I was like, this book is just continually surprising me about all this stuff that I forgot.

[00:29:04] I had no memory of her being the High Inquisitor and it was driving me insane. I love that you don't remember all this kind of stuff. This is great. What do you think about her becoming the High Inquisitor? You obviously don't like it, right? Yeah, I hate it.

[00:29:20] I don't like her. She's just, she just has a little agenda. And she's only seeing what she needs to see to further her agenda. Or the Ministry's agenda. Agreed. So there's another note where she's kind of like bullying Trelawney in this chapter.

[00:29:41] And if you didn't do this podcast with me, you probably maybe would have hated Trelawney even more. Because most people hate Trelawney. I think she's like such a hoax. But I love her. I think she's great.

[00:29:56] Do you have any, do you actually feel bad for Trelawney in this moment? Like she's being essentially like, she's in the classroom and she's like being bullied by Trelawney. She's like, well make a prediction or Trelawney is being bullied. I mean, yeah. After knowing that you love Trelawney,

[00:30:13] I'm definitely giving her like, I don't know. I'm being nicer to her in my mind. But if I'm just like holding out hope that what you say is actually true and she's like a real seer,

[00:30:28] then yeah, I'm like, all right, well maybe this isn't how like seeing works. Like you can't just do it on command. Yeah, clearly. She's not, she's just caught off guard. I don't know. I think Trelawney like being at the school, I don't think it's bad.

[00:30:44] But yeah, I mean Umbridge is evil to everyone she meets. But I don't think not being able to give a prediction like that is any judgment of like your seeing ability. Yeah, agreed. Yeah, you're falling right in line with what I think. This is great. Love it.

[00:31:05] I think Umbridge is definitely a bully in this moment. Like you can't force some of this stuff. I mean, with some certain forms of magic, but with divination it seems a little different. It seems a little more difficult to do that or impossible to do that.

[00:31:16] But yeah, I don't know. And Umbridge has to know that too. Yeah, I think she does, which is why she's playing into it. Umbridge probably, I don't know. Do you think Umbridge thinks seeing is real or not?

[00:31:29] Hmm, I think, I think, um, I think how people view seers in the wizarding world is actually flawed. So I think much of the wizarding world views seers as sometimes they're able to make a prediction here or there and they get things right here or there.

[00:31:52] And like a seer maybe like Trelawney has like these weird outlandish visions that happen that come her way. Um, I think the correct way to see seers in the wizarding world is that they're just good interpreters of the signs.

[00:32:07] Um, which is why I like what, what, um, centaurs do to some extent. They, you know, believe in space racism. They're like looking at the star as being like, oh, you know, Mars is bright tonight.

[00:32:18] It means this is going to happen, which stuff does happen that the centaur say. But I like that their understanding of it is a bit more like grounded in, uh, I don't want to say reality. But it's more, it's more like dirty and gritty.

[00:32:35] It's more like, uh, earthy with Trelawney. It's a bit more heady, but I still think that seers can just interpret things around them and see where things are headed and kind of can get catch glimpses into the future for certain things.

[00:32:51] But you still feel like 5% of the population has an ability or like everyone can do that. They're just untapped. No, I think a very few of the population has the ability. I think you can, you can foster it, but I definitely think there's true seers.

[00:33:05] Like the same thing. There's people who are really good at herbology, but like not the whole world is going to want to be good at herbology. It's just like why you go to school? You figure out what you're good at.

[00:33:16] There's one line in this chapter that I want to discuss where it says, um, Reparo, Harry muttered, pointing his wand at the broken pieces of China. They flew back together. Good as new, but there was no returning the Murtlap essence to the bowl.

[00:33:32] He was suddenly so tired. He was tempted to sink back into his armchair and sleep there. But instead he forced himself to his feet and followed Ron upstairs. His restless night was punctuated once more by dreams of long corridors and locked doors.

[00:33:46] And he awoke next day with his scar prickling again. What are these long corridors and locked doors? I think this is either where later Mr. Weasley ends up. Okay. Or where is it though?

[00:34:07] I don't know. I don't have a specific building, like maybe the basements of Hogwarts or something. Like I feel like Voldemort has to have a headquarters too. Where do you think the headquarters is? I don't know. Um, maybe that school that does the dark magic.

[00:34:33] Durmstrang is interesting. Okay. It could be like the basements of Durmstrang. That's an interesting take. Okay. It's probably very wrong. Is there like a place that I've already been introduced to that this is? Is it like the house at the beginning of... I don't know. We'll see.

[00:34:55] Why would you need a map for that house? That's what I'm thinking. There could be a whole big underground corridor in that house right there. I don't know. It could be somewhere in Hogsmeade. Mm-hmm. What's in this place though? Like why does Harry keep having dreams of it?

[00:35:12] It has to have some significance and some importance. It's probably that weapon. What is the weapon? I think it's the sword of Gryffindor. But wouldn't the weapon be... If there was a sword of Gryffindor, why wouldn't you just like pull it out of the sorting hat?

[00:35:25] Yeah, the sword is in his office. Shoot. There goes that theory. Well, so later Hagrid gave a... This is the noisy one. The sword is made by goblins, right? Yes. So it's like indestructible. Yeah. That's why I thought it was a good theory.

[00:35:45] So okay, that's not the weapon. Maybe the weapon is magic and like a new spell. I don't know. A new spell no one has ever done before. So it's just that you read this and maybe that actually be kind of cool. It's like an instruction manual.

[00:36:06] Yeah, that'd be kind of cool. Is it a physical weapon or it's something that can be weaponized like against people? It depends on what your translation of weapon is. What? No, it just depends on what your interpretation of weapon is. There's a really interesting line.

[00:36:20] That's literally the question that I'm asking. I know, I know. How do they interpret that? So one of my favorite movies of all time is the movie called Arrival.

[00:36:29] And in the movie there is a scene where they need a translator and they ask this one woman to translate. And they initially don't take her because she's not going to like... She needs certain conditions. And they're like, no, we're not going to meet your conditions.

[00:36:44] And then essentially what happens is she's like, oh, are you going to this person then? And they say, yeah. And she asked them, ask him what the Sanskrit word is for this. And then they meet again later and she's like, oh, what did he say?

[00:37:00] And he said it means weapon. And she was like, no, it's wrong. It means tool. So it's like, how do you, how do you interpret weapon? They're saying weapon in this, but what does it actually mean that this is a weapon? And what would this weapon be?

[00:37:17] What is, what is it like a, a, a something that I don't know. Your question about whether you can weaponize something is really interesting. What, how would you define a weapon? I guess is a really interesting question. Something made from a weapon.

[00:37:38] Something made with the intention of being weaponized. You can't define a word by itself. I just did that too.

[00:37:48] No, because like, that's the thing where people say you could build a brick or you could build a house with a brick or you can like chuck a brick through a window and destroy the house. It's like, it's how you use it.

[00:37:59] It's how you use it. Yeah, for sure. So, but I feel like the brick would just, it's not like that would just be weaponized. So now that it's not the sort of Gryffindor. Could just be a brick. I mean, they're wizards.

[00:38:12] I'm feeling like I'm leaning towards it being something that can be weaponized. That's like not intrinsically a weapon. All right. All right. Interesting. We'll see. Next chapter in the Hog's Head. This, do you remember this chapter? Yeah, they start their little Dumbledore's army thing.

[00:38:36] And they meet up in a Hog's Head. Yeah, exactly. Which is a sketchy weird bar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there's like, yeah, the barman is a little weird, but there's a funny line.

[00:38:51] He said, it says he was a grumpy looking old man with a great deal of long gray hair and a beard. He was tall and thin and looked vaguely familiar to Harry. Why do we, why do you think he looks vaguely familiar to Harry?

[00:39:04] I don't know. I'm so mad that I can't figure out who that is either. I was like thinking of all the names that I've heard before. Yeah, I'm sure you've gone through all of them. But there's so many people that like,

[00:39:18] which was the professor that kept coming up to Harry and like shaking his hand? Was that Quirrell? That was Quirrell. Or that was Daedalus Diggle in the very, very beginning. Yeah. I'm like, maybe it's like one of those situations.

[00:39:30] I don't know. Everyone in this pub is sketching me out. Like, I don't like it. And they're obviously all listening to them. They're like, oh, let's go to this like, quiet place. They're definitely idiots for meeting. I mean, it's like a under the radar pub,

[00:39:44] but they're definitely idiots for meeting in public like this. They got to do this somewhere private. So they're kind of, yeah, they're kind of dumb. If you owned a wizard brewery, what would you call it? This is hard.

[00:39:59] Should have like texted me this like yesterday and I could think about it. Spells and sips. Sips and spells. Oh, I like that. I don't know. Alliteration. Yeah. Alliteration always wins in this. This is great. Sips and spells. Magic. I was gonna say magic and spells.

[00:40:20] Magic and spells. Oh, I was gonna say magic and mugs, but that sounds like a coffee. Yeah, it's like a coffee. That's a coffee shop attached to sips and spells. That's everyone's like bookshop, coffee shop dream. That's it. Yeah. Or shots and spells and shots. Shots and spells.

[00:40:37] I like that. It's like a, it's got a ring to it. Well, while they're in this, while they're in shots and spells, I'm going to go ahead and do a little bit of a review. I'm going to go ahead and do a little bit of a review.

[00:40:50] Um, well while they're in this, uh, while they're in shots and spells, there's like a bunch of people are questioning Harry. And there's one that says, where's the proof? You know, who's back. So the blonde Hufflepuff rather in an aggressive voice. Well, Dumbledore believes that Hermione being began.

[00:41:07] You mean Dumbledore believes it. So the blonde boy nodding at Harry, you mean Dumbledore believes him. Who are you said Ron rather rudely. Zacharias Smith said the boy. And I think we've got the right to know exactly what makes him say, you know, who's back.

[00:41:20] Do you think that's an unreasonable request for him from this guy? Um, I would think if you were in this meeting, you would have already like known and believe that. So that was a little like weird to me. Like I would think you'd be fully convinced already,

[00:41:38] but then it seemed like everybody here was like actually trying to just hear his story and then they had that whole thing go down. I'm just like talking about it, but I don't know. It would definitely like raise like a little alarm to me.

[00:41:57] I'd be like, Oh, do you not believe me? But I would just show him the thing on my hand, you know, I must not tell lies and I'd be like, look, I'm telling the truth. This is a hundred percent.

[00:42:06] I literally can't tell lies guys. There's a tattoo on my arm. I cannot tell lies. Exactly. Um, yeah. I don't know how I feel about him. He's like, he's like the odd one out right now. Yeah.

[00:42:18] I think another thing that's interesting for these people is we're in the shoes of Harry, so we know this is truth, but none of these people are in the shoes of Harry. So like they are maybe skeptical of certain things that are happening.

[00:42:30] So I feel like there's at least some point where Harry needs to prove himself. Um, and he doesn't need to go into detail about things obviously, but like if he's saying certain things and the ministry is saying other

[00:42:41] things, then there's a point I think where Harry just needs to be okay. I'm going to tell my story. I'm going to tell it once you can take out your recorders and so you can bring this to other people if you want,

[00:42:49] but this is what happened that night and he needs to set the record straight. If he does that and I'm in this DA meeting, I'm like sold. I'm like, let's go Harry. Like they're mistreating you like this. Let's go. Let's freaking, I'm on the bandwagon right now.

[00:43:01] But just blindly putting my faith in another kid who says this and he's like, just believe me. I'm like, dude, there's a lot of shadiness to that, I think. But we as readers love this because, um, or maybe not love it,

[00:43:13] but we understand Harry because we're in his shoes. Zachariah Smith isn't. Yeah. And I think it's good to be skeptical too. I would hope they're equally skeptical about what the ministry is saying, but the fact that they're here like willing to hear it out and put in like

[00:43:31] the actual effort of learning because it is so real to them that they want to be able to defend themselves. That's pretty cool. I love the DA. I know. Same. It's such a cool idea. There's a, there's a line that Ron says to Zachariah Smith. He goes, uh,

[00:43:49] or Zachariah Smith goes, says, are you trying to weasel out of showing us any of this stuff? Said Zachariah Smith. Here's an idea. I said Ron loudly before Harry could speak. Why don't you shut your mouth? I love Ron here. Ron is so direct.

[00:44:01] I know. I know. I love it so much. Um, and then there's a one little weird note here too where Luna is talking and do you believe anything that Luna says? Yeah. Okay. I believe Luna.

[00:44:13] I think I would just be like, listen, you can convince me of anything. Like I'll doubt you at first, but just like, I'll hear you out. So I don't know. I obviously can't converse with her. I can't really hear her arguments, but yeah, I go with it.

[00:44:28] She talks about heliopause and Neville goes, what are heliopause? Asked Neville looking blank. There's spirits of fire. So Luna her protuberant eyes widening so that she looked mad, looked madder than ever. Great tall flaming creatures that gallop across the ground burning in the

[00:44:41] front of they don't exist. Neville said, Hermione tartly. Oh yes, they do. Said Luna angrily. Um, I'm sorry, but where's the proof of that? Hermione there are plenty of eyewitness accounts just because you're so narrow-minded. You need to have everything shoved under your nose before

[00:44:56] you there. I, yeah. First of all, do you think heliopause exists? Sure. Like I'm not convinced, but I'll go with it. Okay. I like that because I like that this is a little microcosm of a story

[00:45:13] in the larger story about people believing something that seems to be out of the question of believable. Hermione believes things in the rational world, but she doesn't believe, I mean, this is like maybe a little bit different.

[00:45:24] She doesn't believe Luna about heliopause, but it's the same basic thing. Someone is saying something exists and the other person isn't, and they're just battling each other based on, you know, what they're saying. So I think it's a good thing.

[00:45:36] I think it's a good thing that the other person isn't and they're just battling each other based on what each other say rather than like actual evidence. And I feel like this is the DA meeting in a nutshell as well.

[00:45:46] There's people that are just supposed to flat out believe Harry. And this is what I think what makes the DA so powerful to be completely honest is that these kids end up just believing him because they become convinced

[00:45:58] of Harry's story at the end, not with every detail in mind, because Harry doesn't tell them every detail. He tells them a few things here and there. And then these, these, a lot of these kids are ready to fight for Harry.

[00:46:09] And I love that. I think that's so powerful. I like that. Yeah, it's great. I love it. And they also like, they all experienced Cedric's death too. That's not just a Harry issue. Issue is not the right word for that. Trauma? Yeah, trauma is the better word.

[00:46:29] And then there's a final note in this chapter that I want to talk about just a more fun note. Hermione goes, well, said Hermione smiling slightly. She just couldn't keep her eyes off you. Could she? Harry had never before appreciated just how beautiful the village of Hogsmeade was.

[00:46:46] Harry! My guy getting a crush and getting to pay it off. Let's go. So my final question for this pod is, have you ever had a moment when you've had a crush and you just found cloud nine from reciprocation of that crush? Yeah. That's the best feeling ever.

[00:47:03] Yeah, definitely. A hundred percent. It's so good. The end. But what do you think about that whole DA? What do you think about the group? We'll end with this. I really like it. I like how they're starting their own little,

[00:47:21] I don't want to say like secret society, but they're kids and they're like starting to take it into their own hands like that. Oh, there might be a battle. Like not a lot of people are recognizing that and not even their parents are

[00:47:39] recognizing that. So for them to take it so serious, I really like that. Yeah. I respect it. It's kind of like, it's like starting, I don't know. Like it's brewing. It's exciting. Yeah, it is exciting. It's a good chapter. It's like, let's go.

[00:47:56] It kind of gets you pumped up too. Cause you see all the evil happening with Umbridge and you're like, all right, we're finally fighting back. It's about time. Yeah. So many good lines in this too. I know there's so many.

[00:48:08] We should do favorite line. We should add that one to the mix. This is one I underlined it. Underlined it? What? Because nobody could call that defense against the dark arts. Here, here said Anthony Goldstein and Hermione looked heartened.

[00:48:22] There's so many lines that just crack me up for no reason. This is a great section of writing for her. She did great with these. That's why a lot of people, it's agony getting through Order of the Phoenix

[00:48:35] because Umbridge is in the whole book, but I think it's so excellent because I think it's one of her, I think it's her best written book if I'm being honest. Really? And I'll tell you why I think that at the end.

[00:48:47] But I just think it's a marvel of like how she's able to write a book that's not just about her, but I just think it's a marvel of like how she's able to keep you engaged even in the spite of this evil character.

[00:48:57] I think it's, I think it's a really well-written book. I definitely had a moment like I was about halfway through the book and I just thought, oh, this is so long. This does not need to be this long and nothing is happening. Yeah.

[00:49:13] And there was just like too much extra space. Yeah. But I'll talk about that at the end for why I think it actually is great. It picks up. Yeah, it definitely picks up. It's like, it's a long book. All right.

[00:49:26] Give me your favorite character, your favorite moment in these chapters and who's your hot tamale? Um, I want to say Ron for my favorite, like the house cup. Okay. I just feel like he's good in these chapters. Sirius in the fireplace is, wait, I gotta think about this.

[00:49:51] I really need to start writing these down because I can't do this. It's hard to think of all the chapters in conjunction with each other. Um, you go first. I actually think this is a great stretch of Hermione chapters. I think she has a really strong sewing showing.

[00:50:08] So she's my house cup winner because, um, she's essentially the mastermind of the DA and she's like, we need to start fighting back. And she's like, Harriet, let's go. Um, so I think she's, she's the winner of the house cup.

[00:50:23] I think my hot tamale is a Cho in this because she's just putting the vibes out to Harry and Harry is like spitting over this, uh, this girl right here. So I love that. And then my favorite moment is the, is the moment with Ron

[00:50:40] and the twins in, uh, the hogshead. Like, I love that they're just like shutting everyone up and they're on Harry's side, even though Harry is an idiot and he doesn't necessarily see it. Like they are with Harry and they're making fun of people

[00:50:53] and they're telling other people to shut up. And they're like, like even the twins are just like sold or like, let's go. They're like, why is everyone else wasting their time? We are sold on this mission. Let's start making a difference. Fred and George are exceptional characters.

[00:51:07] I love them so much. So that's kind of my favorite. Another favorite that I have too is I'd love the detention with the Dolores chapter for Harry's like goal to just stand. Yeah, that was going to be my favorite moment was his detention.

[00:51:20] It's great. Which is a terrible moment. But it's good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for joining us on our journey of Harry Potter and the second time reader. Later. Peace.