Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Ch 33-Epilogue

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Jon. I'm Lizzie. And this is Harry Potter and the Second Time Reader. Coming to a close. This is the last time you'll ever be a second time reader of Harry Potter. I finished it and I was like, I want to read it again. Really? Yeah. You liked it that much? I would read the last book again for sure. I don't know if I'd, I would read, I'd probably skip Goblet of Fire, but I'd read the rest. Yeah.

[00:00:41] Did you skip Goblet of Fire? Yeah. That is shocking. Sometimes if you reread that you might- Or maybe Order of the Phoenix. I don't know. Okay. Well, whatever. I'm just listening to the podcast now because it's out and I was like, man, this is a kind of boring book. Order of the Phoenix? Yeah. Yeah. There's like a dead zone in there, I feel. But- You read the, again, I've told you this before, but you read these at different points in your life at different times and the books,

[00:01:11] I mean, like every single read I like one of the books more than the others for a different reason. So you might reread the fifth book and like completely love it again.

[00:01:22] I do love them all. Yeah.

[00:01:24] It's just a lot of reading.

[00:01:26] Yeah.

[00:01:27] Yep.

[00:01:29] Um, all right. Let's go through this chapter at a time as always.

[00:01:33] And then talk over some, some of these points at the end of the book. I can't believe it.

[00:01:39] Me neither.

[00:01:41] What a good journey.

[00:01:42] It really has been.

[00:01:44] Hmm.

[00:01:44] I feel like we've grown a lot since the beginning.

[00:01:47] Agreed.

[00:01:48] Agreed.

[00:01:49] This has been a joy to do this with you, Lizzie.

[00:01:51] Oh, it's been so fun doing with you too.

[00:01:53] That was half the reason I was like sobbing when I finished this. Cause I was like, everything is coming to an end. Like not just the book, but like, obviously there's more podcasts in the future.

[00:02:04] Yeah.

[00:02:04] But I was like the whole podcast and then like, just like waiting to talk things through before going forward. Like all the doubling back made it so much better. And then it's like, there's suspense and it's like drawn out.

[00:02:16] But then you also like have given me like so much more insight into the book. And then I feel like we became such better friends.

[00:02:24] And I was like, oh, it's like the whole, like all of it is ending now.

[00:02:27] No, this is just the beginning, Lizzie. Come on.

[00:02:30] Would you have to be sad?

[00:02:31] I'm going to cry.

[00:02:36] It's, it's, it's the, it's the greatest. It's been, we'll save the sentimental stuff for the end.

[00:02:43] I just got my sentimental stuff out of the way. So.

[00:02:45] All right. So you did it at the beginning. I'll do it at the end.

[00:02:47] All right. A little sentimental sandwich.

[00:02:52] Give me a quick summary of chapter 33, which is the princess tale.

[00:02:56] Me do it?

[00:02:56] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:58] This is when, so it starts off like Snape is on the ground and then Voldemort like gives a threat.

[00:03:07] Like you have to be in the woods in an hour. And then Harry runs back, pours Snape's memory into the pensive and then starts going through like all of these memories.

[00:03:18] And that's essentially what happens.

[00:03:21] Yeah. We'll talk about the memories.

[00:03:22] Yeah.

[00:03:22] Before he goes and sees the memories, there is a absolutely tragic thing that happens.

[00:03:29] Which is Tonks and Luton die.

[00:03:32] Oh my gosh.

[00:03:34] I was flabbergasted.

[00:03:36] Right?

[00:03:36] I like read that and I stopped and I literally stared at their names and I was like, there is no way.

[00:03:42] Cause I was like, I've lost Sirius.

[00:03:45] Yep.

[00:03:45] Mad-Eye.

[00:03:46] Dumbledore.

[00:03:47] Dumbledore.

[00:03:47] Dumbledore.

[00:03:48] I don't care about Dumbledore that much.

[00:03:49] But then the other two, I'm like Tonks and Lupin.

[00:03:52] I know.

[00:03:53] I'm like losing my whole favorite character list is just getting like crossed off the face of the earth.

[00:03:59] And they had their kid too.

[00:04:00] I know.

[00:04:01] And I was like, oh my gosh, is that why you were saying like godfathers have to raise their kid?

[00:04:05] I was like, is Harry going to raise the kid now?

[00:04:07] Like what's happening?

[00:04:08] But then I kind of just ignored it because I'm big into the denial after people die.

[00:04:16] So I was like, cannot be true.

[00:04:18] Like they're just like sleeping, you know, like Fred is dead.

[00:04:22] But then I was like, maybe they're just injured, you know, like they'll come back.

[00:04:25] But no, they're just goners.

[00:04:27] They're goners.

[00:04:28] But I love that both of them died, honestly.

[00:04:31] Because if one died, I would probably feel worse.

[00:04:33] I don't know.

[00:04:34] Maybe I wouldn't feel worse.

[00:04:35] Dude, that's actually a really fair point.

[00:04:37] Like if Tonks now has to like live her whole life or something.

[00:04:40] Or Lupin.

[00:04:41] Because then Lupin would never forgive himself for Tonks.

[00:04:43] Oh my gosh.

[00:04:44] Especially, yeah, Lupin just started to, I mean, he's always loved Tonks, but he's just really started to embrace it.

[00:04:50] So losing her, that would be a devastating bit of writing.

[00:04:53] It's almost like a mercy that she killed both of them at the same time.

[00:04:56] Yeah.

[00:04:57] Not to us, because, you know, we're, we want both of them freaking alive, Joe Rowling.

[00:05:02] Come on.

[00:05:02] Because like it hurts me either way, you know?

[00:05:04] Yeah, I know, yeah.

[00:05:05] But then like to think about the future.

[00:05:07] What they would have to endure.

[00:05:08] Oh, no way.

[00:05:10] Tonks would, neither of them would ever remarry again.

[00:05:12] That was the love of their life.

[00:05:14] No, yeah.

[00:05:14] And they wouldn't remarry.

[00:05:16] Lupin would feel overwhelming guilt.

[00:05:17] Tonks would feel overwhelming depression.

[00:05:19] Yeah.

[00:05:20] Dang, that'd be devastating.

[00:05:22] But I wonder if they saw the other one go down in battle, if they would kind of like give their all and kind of like willingly, willingly like lose a battle.

[00:05:32] You know?

[00:05:33] Sacrifice yourself.

[00:05:34] Give your everything.

[00:05:35] Because at that point you're like, I don't know how obsessed they were with each other.

[00:05:38] But like if your world's surrounded around that person, it's like your world's over.

[00:05:42] Your world's ending.

[00:05:42] I've actually never thought about how they died.

[00:05:46] And if it was like that.

[00:05:48] I almost like picture it like a slow motion movie now.

[00:05:50] Like imagine, I could imagine this like very clearly actually.

[00:05:54] Like Lupin dies in battle.

[00:05:56] Or Tonks, let's say Tonks dies in battle.

[00:05:58] And all of a sudden Lupin sees it like last second.

[00:06:00] He sees his wife go down to like some green curse which she knows is about a cadaver.

[00:06:04] Like there's all sorts of explosions.

[00:06:06] There's all sorts of rubble going on and he's just like walking through the midst of it.

[00:06:09] Just like in shock.

[00:06:11] And then all of a sudden like he walks up to this woman that he loves, Tonks, and like falls on his knees.

[00:06:18] And he's just about to start like weeping and he gets hit with a vaticadaver.

[00:06:23] Yeah.

[00:06:24] Oh my gosh.

[00:06:25] That is so bad.

[00:06:26] This is so painful.

[00:06:28] We made it worse.

[00:06:29] I know.

[00:06:29] Once again.

[00:06:30] Oh my gosh.

[00:06:31] This is awful.

[00:06:34] And then there's just like the baby.

[00:06:36] Yeah.

[00:06:37] What's his name?

[00:06:37] Teddy.

[00:06:38] Teddy.

[00:06:39] Teddy.

[00:06:40] This is honestly where you get into some like interesting.

[00:06:42] Like you are in now.

[00:06:43] You finish the books.

[00:06:44] You're not going to probably get into fan fiction.

[00:06:45] But this is where you get into interesting fan theories.

[00:06:47] And like headcanons that people come up with.

[00:06:50] Like expanding the universe of what she's in.

[00:06:52] And like that.

[00:06:54] Like how did Tonks and Remus die?

[00:06:57] Um.

[00:06:58] And like filling out those details yourself.

[00:07:01] I guess that's kind of the product of not wanting it to end.

[00:07:05] Like people just go on and write their own stuff.

[00:07:07] Absolutely.

[00:07:08] Yeah.

[00:07:10] Definitely going to go down some rabbit holes online.

[00:07:13] Like.

[00:07:14] Yeah.

[00:07:14] Reading all the wizarding things.

[00:07:15] There's some good stuff.

[00:07:16] At the moment.

[00:07:17] My.

[00:07:17] Have I ever told you my favorite headcanon about Neville?

[00:07:20] Now.

[00:07:20] Now that you know the end of the story and everything I tell.

[00:07:22] I don't know.

[00:07:23] So he marries.

[00:07:25] Hannah Abbott.

[00:07:25] Why did I say Hannah Smith?

[00:07:27] I don't know.

[00:07:28] So he marries Hannah Abbott who's in the story.

[00:07:30] And Hannah Abbott lost her mom.

[00:07:32] Lost her aunt.

[00:07:32] Like lost half of her family in this war.

[00:07:34] But she's like an underwritten character.

[00:07:36] Like not a lot of.

[00:07:38] Is written about her.

[00:07:39] But.

[00:07:40] My headcanon is that.

[00:07:41] So they got married.

[00:07:42] That's like canon.

[00:07:43] Canon.

[00:07:44] So they got married.

[00:07:45] And my headcanon is that Neville went on a lifelong search to try to fix the Cruciatus Curse.

[00:07:50] The effects of the Cruciatus Curse and his parents.

[00:07:52] And his parents.

[00:07:53] And his wife.

[00:07:56] Was in training.

[00:07:57] And this is like fact too.

[00:07:58] His wife was in training to become a healer.

[00:08:01] And she was like the barmaid at the.

[00:08:06] Leaky Cauldron.

[00:08:07] And all the students thought Neville was like cool.

[00:08:09] It's because he would go.

[00:08:10] And they like lived in a flat above the Leaky Cauldron.

[00:08:12] So they all thought he was like the coolest dude ever.

[00:08:15] And my headcanon is that Neville was looking for.

[00:08:18] He was a teacher at Hogwarts.

[00:08:20] He was looking for this cure for the Cruciatus Curse for his parents for the effects of it.

[00:08:24] And he discovered the cure only a few weeks after his parents died.

[00:08:30] Like he was like really adamant about finding this cure.

[00:08:33] And he was so close.

[00:08:34] And then his parents died.

[00:08:35] And then like a few weeks later he found the cure.

[00:08:37] So he was like devastated.

[00:08:38] He like still found the cure.

[00:08:39] Still like helped tons of people out in the future.

[00:08:42] But he wasn't able to help his parents out.

[00:08:44] I'm like it's devastating.

[00:08:46] I love really sad stuff like that.

[00:08:47] So if you can make this more.

[00:08:49] If you can crush myself even more.

[00:08:50] I think you have told me that before.

[00:08:52] It's like my favorite one.

[00:08:53] You came up with that?

[00:08:55] Yeah kind of.

[00:08:56] Why would you do that to yourself?

[00:08:58] Like let's make my favorite depressed character have more depression.

[00:09:03] It's so good.

[00:09:04] I just love it.

[00:09:05] It's such freaking good stuff.

[00:09:08] Does John love pain?

[00:09:10] What is this?

[00:09:12] Oh my gosh.

[00:09:13] Maybe.

[00:09:14] That is awful.

[00:09:15] I know.

[00:09:15] It's devastating right?

[00:09:16] I'm not ever going to think about that again.

[00:09:18] Yeah you can just leave it.

[00:09:20] Leave it out.

[00:09:21] Don't think about it.

[00:09:22] Neville was so good.

[00:09:23] Like his character growth.

[00:09:24] I feel like he ends on a good note.

[00:09:28] I feel like.

[00:09:28] Yeah such a good note.

[00:09:30] So good.

[00:09:30] And then you just want to beat him while he's.

[00:09:32] No.

[00:09:32] Like this is.

[00:09:33] Okay so this is like.

[00:09:35] I don't want to get into this.

[00:09:37] This contributes to his growth even more.

[00:09:39] Like he's just like.

[00:09:42] Harry loses almost everyone that he loves.

[00:09:45] Like Neville also loses almost everyone that he loves.

[00:09:47] And it's like yes good things happen to them.

[00:09:50] Like I think he and Hannah probably met in like a support group after this.

[00:09:53] Of like talking about their parents death.

[00:09:55] And like you know they fell in love over.

[00:09:56] You know having coffee.

[00:09:57] And like having a healthy relationship.

[00:09:59] Of talking about this and processing the dirt together.

[00:10:01] Great.

[00:10:01] Love that for them.

[00:10:03] But my dude.

[00:10:05] It's like.

[00:10:07] Joe.

[00:10:08] Struggles.

[00:10:08] Not struggles.

[00:10:09] He writes great happy endings for people.

[00:10:11] But for Harry.

[00:10:12] He doesn't get the happiest of endings.

[00:10:15] He does.

[00:10:16] For sure.

[00:10:17] But almost everyone that he loves dies.

[00:10:19] And I'm like Neville's pretty much the same.

[00:10:21] And it's like.

[00:10:23] I know that's super depressing to think that.

[00:10:26] He found the cure and then his parents.

[00:10:27] Or his parents died right before he found the cure.

[00:10:29] But I don't know.

[00:10:30] It just makes him an interesting character.

[00:10:31] That he's.

[00:10:32] He.

[00:10:32] He finds the cure.

[00:10:34] And he still like is on the search.

[00:10:36] Trying to find the cure.

[00:10:37] Even after his parents died.

[00:10:38] He's like trying to help his parents.

[00:10:40] But he still.

[00:10:41] Is such a beautiful human being.

[00:10:44] That he's not going to give up after his parents died.

[00:10:46] And there's more people to heal too.

[00:10:48] Exactly.

[00:10:48] Like he can go on and.

[00:10:50] Yes.

[00:10:50] Save everyone.

[00:10:51] Yeah.

[00:10:52] Yep.

[00:10:52] That's why he's my favorite character.

[00:10:55] I love him so much.

[00:10:57] Oh my gosh.

[00:10:59] I love him too.

[00:11:01] All right.

[00:11:01] So in the beginning of Snape's memory.

[00:11:04] What did you think of the Snape Lily and Petunia connection?

[00:11:09] Did that throw you off at all?

[00:11:11] Did you predict that at all?

[00:11:13] I felt like a vague memory.

[00:11:16] Yeah.

[00:11:18] I don't know.

[00:11:19] But not that it was Snape or Lily or Petunia.

[00:11:21] I was like oh yes.

[00:11:22] Three kids on a playground.

[00:11:24] That was it.

[00:11:25] But I like it I think.

[00:11:30] Yeah.

[00:11:30] It just is like odd to me.

[00:11:32] I guess I like that Petunia and Lily are very like friends with each other right now.

[00:11:41] They have like the good sister sibling childhood.

[00:11:45] And then Snape is like I'm assuming like unpopular with the whole town it feels like.

[00:11:50] And he's like neglected and doesn't love his family or his family doesn't love him.

[00:11:53] So I like that they have a friendship with each other.

[00:11:56] But then serious.

[00:11:58] I mean not serious.

[00:12:00] Snape is like I don't know.

[00:12:04] I can sense like superiority in Snape from the very beginning.

[00:12:08] Like the way that he expects that telling them they're a wizard is going to be like some big like bomb drop to them.

[00:12:17] And like I don't know.

[00:12:18] And then he likes he likes Lily.

[00:12:20] Lily.

[00:12:22] Which is like I don't know what to think about that.

[00:12:26] Okay.

[00:12:27] The question that plagues not plagues the question that is maybe the most debated question in all of Harry Potter lore.

[00:12:35] Did Snape actually love Lily?

[00:12:38] What do you think?

[00:12:43] I think yes.

[00:12:45] Which is very controversial.

[00:12:47] Most people say no.

[00:12:49] And even for some like stuff in my background I would be more apt to say no.

[00:12:55] But I think there was it was a perverted version of love like some of the stuff that he thought.

[00:13:00] But some people think that he never loved her at all.

[00:13:04] Like there was never any love there.

[00:13:05] And I think that's like a like more of a misunderstanding of the test.

[00:13:08] Yeah.

[00:13:09] Yeah.

[00:13:09] I think it's a misunderstanding of the text.

[00:13:11] I think that Snape didn't actually love Lily for a little portion.

[00:13:17] It turned into something pretty gross.

[00:13:19] It turned into something that was like obsessive and like very not healthy.

[00:13:25] It turned into like something pretty nasty and gross.

[00:13:27] But I think there was sparks of love.

[00:13:30] And even in the midst of that nastiness and grossness I think Snape he didn't really try to maintain some of it.

[00:13:36] But like it was a very selfish love.

[00:13:38] It was a very perverted kind of love.

[00:13:41] At the beginning I think he loved her.

[00:13:42] And I think when he realized that he lost her.

[00:13:44] Which is like Snape's worst memory.

[00:13:46] Was not that he got turned upside down and like you know everyone saw his underwear.

[00:13:51] It was that he lost Lily that moment.

[00:13:54] I think after he realized he lost Lily.

[00:13:56] His love for her started becoming a little stranger.

[00:13:59] Like Lily was his like in a weird way.

[00:14:02] Lily was like his horcrux onto like a normal life.

[00:14:05] And then he lost Lily.

[00:14:06] And then like he divulged into like a horrible human being.

[00:14:13] That's so interesting.

[00:14:14] I thought you were going to say that his love became like more pure after Lily died.

[00:14:21] I think actually I will say to some extent I actually think it might have been.

[00:14:27] His love for Lily became a little bit more pure.

[00:14:29] Because once she's gone then it's like you can kind of just have like a wholesome admiration and like memory of her.

[00:14:36] Yeah.

[00:14:36] And it's less like the physical like in person.

[00:14:40] Like it seemed very possessive to me.

[00:14:42] Like he wanted to make sure like I know like what you're thinking about me.

[00:14:46] I know how people are thinking about you.

[00:14:48] Like I don't like that vibe.

[00:14:50] But interesting.

[00:14:53] Yeah.

[00:14:53] I think he did love her.

[00:14:55] Yeah.

[00:14:56] But I think it's like there's different types of love.

[00:15:01] So I feel like in the beginning it's like very childlike.

[00:15:04] Like you just love somebody and that's like what it is.

[00:15:07] Yeah.

[00:15:07] But then I feel like you can't really have like true love unless it's reciprocated.

[00:15:13] Because that to me is like if you want to be like Dumbledore and be like the magic of love.

[00:15:19] Like that to me is like when it's reciprocated and you can like kind of like transcend your own boundaries and like be better together.

[00:15:27] Like be stronger or more confident or whatever.

[00:15:30] Like you're better together than you are in part.

[00:15:32] That's like the magiciness of it.

[00:15:34] But like Snape could never get to like what I would think is like true romantic love just because Lily's like not reciprocating it.

[00:15:40] Yeah.

[00:15:41] So then like in whatever is going on in Snape's mind I don't know maybe he really is like that's the deepest love he's ever felt for somebody.

[00:15:47] I don't think it's like completely pure.

[00:15:49] I think it is like perverted in a sense of like it is possessive and it's like selfish.

[00:15:55] And I think he's like seeking more validation because he doesn't have that anywhere else in his life.

[00:16:02] Like in relationships like if with his family because he still doesn't have like friends at Hogwarts even.

[00:16:07] So like that's the only place he's getting love from.

[00:16:10] And I think like Lily's giving him friendship love.

[00:16:14] But I think Snape is like he could be like truly loving to her in a friendship way and like really that's all he has.

[00:16:20] But then he like wants to take it to like romantic love and I don't think it's ever going to go that way.

[00:16:24] So then like for me it's like I don't think you really have like a true love because you just like you just hit a brick wall and it's like you can't you can't go that far.

[00:16:33] I don't know.

[00:16:33] Yeah.

[00:16:34] But like I think in Snape's mind like if you ask Snape I think you'd be like yeah that's like the most I've ever loved anyone.

[00:16:39] Yeah absolutely.

[00:16:39] I think so.

[00:16:40] And I don't think like we can discount that just because like.

[00:16:43] Yeah.

[00:16:44] Somebody doesn't love you back like there's people that do that in like real life where they're like I love that person.

[00:16:49] That was my person.

[00:16:51] Never gonna.

[00:16:52] And it wasn't reciprocated.

[00:16:52] Yeah.

[00:16:53] And sometimes it's hard for those people to move on.

[00:16:56] And it's really interesting when you talk about that because I feel like it's split in two different ways.

[00:17:01] When the person is alive it becomes like the person who can't you know let go and the person can't.

[00:17:11] Like move on and find another person to love.

[00:17:14] That person is often seen as like very strange like very it's not healthy to do that.

[00:17:18] But when we talk about it with people who have died it becomes romanticized.

[00:17:22] We're like one of my favorite favorite movies is I can't remember the title.

[00:17:27] Good Will Hunting.

[00:17:29] You ever seen that?

[00:17:30] No.

[00:17:30] We'll do some Legos and we'll watch Good Will Hunting or something.

[00:17:33] Sounds good.

[00:17:33] But there's a scene in that movie where one character he is like confronting another character and he's like oh so he's like what happened?

[00:17:41] And he's like oh my wife died and he's like oh so you just like you know shut yourself in a room and you never chose to love anybody else before.

[00:17:46] And he's like doing that.

[00:17:47] And it's so romanticized this idea of like oh when when you know the love of your life dies I'm not gonna find anybody else.

[00:17:53] That was the only person for me.

[00:17:54] So Snape has a little bit of both.

[00:17:55] Like it's romanticized in that like he was never really out looking for love anymore because the person that he loved died.

[00:18:01] But when he was alive it really wasn't necessarily even that significant of love.

[00:18:06] But I definitely think it was some portion of love which I'm honest that might be one of the most controversial things we say on our podcast because a lot of people say it wasn't at all.

[00:18:15] But I think that changes the entire story if you don't think that Snape had somewhat of a genuine love for Lily.

[00:18:21] I think that changes the whole story.

[00:18:23] You have to say it to some extent.

[00:18:25] And like it depends what kind of love you're talking about.

[00:18:27] Yeah agreed.

[00:18:27] So.

[00:18:28] Yeah for sure.

[00:18:29] The reciprocation is a great point I think that you hit on.

[00:18:35] It's very controversial though.

[00:18:37] Very controversial.

[00:18:38] I feel like he definitely like he doesn't have anyone else in his life so like how could you not love that person?

[00:18:45] Yeah honestly.

[00:18:46] And like she brings it up too.

[00:18:49] She's like look I all of my friends hate that I talk to you.

[00:18:52] I'm like still choosing to be with you.

[00:18:54] So it's like I don't know.

[00:18:56] I feel like that would have got through to him a little bit.

[00:18:58] Yeah.

[00:18:59] You saw him like fighting his demons a lot.

[00:19:01] It's like this is um I don't know.

[00:19:05] It it seems reminiscent of like you know someone who's addicted to some kind of substance or like

[00:19:12] and Lily he feels like maybe Lily is his last like hope and Lily like you know at one point

[00:19:18] she's like I can't keep covering for you.

[00:19:19] I can't keep saying this stuff.

[00:19:20] I can't keep like you know taking crap.

[00:19:22] And so she just like lets him go and devolve and he just goes down a terrible spiral until when he when Lily dies then he realizes of like his wrong and he like wants to make penance for that.

[00:19:34] And the way that he makes penance isn't like the best way to make penance because he's still a pretty nasty person after that.

[00:19:38] But I think he doesn't really let himself forgive him.

[00:19:41] I don't I don't think he forgives himself that much.

[00:19:44] And so he kind of like is walking around like we talked about for like the Jacob Marley like he's walking around like chains on him.

[00:19:52] Almost like the bloody baron-esque like a human version of the bloody baron.

[00:19:56] Yeah.

[00:19:56] He's like trying to pay penance but he can't.

[00:19:58] He can't seem to free himself of like the shackles.

[00:20:02] He can't really seem to try and try to find like true forgiveness.

[00:20:05] It's only at the very end where he kind of tries to find forgiveness.

[00:20:08] It's like someone on their deathbed dying.

[00:20:10] Even like the same idea of like in religion like the thief on the cross like right before you die you have like this come to Jesus moment you know.

[00:20:16] And like you're all of a sudden you know okay.

[00:20:18] It's like those kind of moments where you live a miserable life you all of a sudden at the end of your life.

[00:20:23] So there's huge debate on for those characters whether they could have truly been changed.

[00:20:29] And I do think that Snape was changed to some extent.

[00:20:32] But I think it was hard for him because he's supposed to he's like you know taking care of Harry in a weird way.

[00:20:39] Yeah.

[00:20:40] He simultaneously loves and loathes Harry.

[00:20:44] And that's like a tough thing.

[00:20:45] Because Harry's like his like saving grace but then also like his punishment.

[00:20:52] Yes.

[00:20:52] It's like that's the burden that you have to carry is like you now have to care for this kid.

[00:20:58] That's yeah that's crazy.

[00:21:01] What you just said is so good.

[00:21:04] Everything.

[00:21:05] And I think that's what makes this story so good.

[00:21:07] I have a like this is a potential hot take for people who read literature.

[00:21:12] Like I love reading literature.

[00:21:13] I love complex characters and I think Severus Snape might be one of the most complex characters ever written.

[00:21:24] Because it's not like I don't think he has a personality disorder.

[00:21:28] Some people think he has a personality disorder.

[00:21:30] I don't think he has something that you can just like like chalk it off on like oh this person is just like you know.

[00:21:35] I'm like this because he has a personality disorder.

[00:21:39] I just think he has I think he's fighting demons and the demons have won significant times in his life.

[00:21:46] And he's trying to make penance for it.

[00:21:48] Can't.

[00:21:48] And that's why he's such a complex character.

[00:21:51] He's such an interesting character.

[00:21:52] And he's so divisive too.

[00:21:53] And what makes him so complex.

[00:21:55] That even today.

[00:21:56] Years after the entire thing is over.

[00:22:00] People are still debating whether Snape is truly a good person or not.

[00:22:03] Whether he truly loves Lily or not.

[00:22:06] It's just such an interesting discussion I think.

[00:22:08] I think he has an inclination to be like a dark wizard.

[00:22:12] Or I feel like he might have a personality disorder.

[00:22:16] Because then the thing that gets me is like calling Lily a mudblood.

[00:22:22] Yeah.

[00:22:23] Is like yeah if you really love somebody you would like never do that.

[00:22:27] Like you think about them first.

[00:22:28] It's like what am I like what am I doing right now that's like how is that going to affect that person.

[00:22:33] It's like they're at the forefront of your mind.

[00:22:34] So if you really like are standing by what you say or like how you feel about somebody.

[00:22:40] It's like you're not gonna just.

[00:22:43] You're not gonna do that to them.

[00:22:45] So then maybe it's like he's a narcissist or like he's whatever you want to say.

[00:22:50] But like that to me where like he's kind of endangering their relationship or their friendship.

[00:22:56] That is the only thing that doesn't seem like loving to me.

[00:23:00] But then I know there's people that just like struggle with like connecting with people.

[00:23:03] And like prioritizing people or like feeling empathy.

[00:23:06] And it's just like you know it's like I love you.

[00:23:09] But like I can't like I don't like I can't care.

[00:23:12] That's like a roadblock for some people.

[00:23:14] So I don't know.

[00:23:16] It could just be that thing.

[00:23:16] And then like when she's gone it's like then you just gotta be stuck with your decision.

[00:23:22] And then I think he's just like so guilty.

[00:23:24] Like I think he's very like shame.

[00:23:26] Yeah.

[00:23:26] Is kind of like what's happening with him.

[00:23:29] That's why like again looking at all this kind of stuff.

[00:23:32] Dealing with people who or like knowing people who have gone through personality disorders.

[00:23:38] It's it's so much shakier.

[00:23:40] I don't that's why I don't love chalking it up to it.

[00:23:43] Because sometimes it's such a hard discussion.

[00:23:46] But he also had like a very bad upbringing.

[00:23:49] Yeah agreed.

[00:23:49] So it's like perfectly.

[00:23:50] Agreed.

[00:23:50] Acceptable to me to like chalk it up as a personality disorder.

[00:23:54] But personality disorders tend to like they have they have flickerings when you're in your adolescence.

[00:24:02] Like there's situations that can bring up your personality disorders.

[00:24:06] And they they're different for men and women for when they're kind of firmed up.

[00:24:10] And the DSM allows for I think they allow for the diagnosis of a personality disorder in your adolescence.

[00:24:18] If you've had this for a year.

[00:24:20] But they don't allow it as a diagnosis if you have have had it for less than a year.

[00:24:25] So if Snape has like these like little inkling moments here and there.

[00:24:29] He's probably had it for more than a year.

[00:24:32] I don't know whatever it would be.

[00:24:33] But it's it's firmed up in his later years in his 30s.

[00:24:38] But the only thing is he doesn't really live to be I don't know what age he is when he dies.

[00:24:43] I think it's 40.

[00:24:44] I'd say maybe late 30s when he dies.

[00:24:47] So it has a chance to like firm up in his old age.

[00:24:50] Which I feel like it kind of does to some extent.

[00:24:53] But being in your adolescence it actually gives you the propensity for change.

[00:24:57] When you're later you're kind of your mind is kind of made up and your personality disorder just like is your personality disorder.

[00:25:04] So it's like you're kind of stuck with it.

[00:25:06] That's what they say.

[00:25:07] There's like no I don't and I'm I don't want to.

[00:25:13] I don't know nearly enough about the DSM that I should love like what I should but like people say that people who have personality disorders are incapable of change.

[00:25:24] And I think so but I don't think so at the same time.

[00:25:26] Like I know people who have certain ones and they're incapable of change.

[00:25:29] I know some people who have personality disorders and they just learn to live with it.

[00:25:33] And I know certain things like even things that aren't personality disorder like bipolar which isn't like a personality disorder.

[00:25:41] People like you know people are bipolar and they live with it great.

[00:25:44] And there are some people who are bipolar and they're like jackasses.

[00:25:47] They're jerks to everyone.

[00:25:48] I'm like you have to learn to live with whatever thing that you have.

[00:25:51] I just don't think Snape did a very good job of learning to cope with some of this stuff of getting good people on his side.

[00:25:56] He took like a bad path and he just couldn't like find his own redemption until the very end when he found his own redemption.

[00:26:09] And his redemption and this is again why I think he's an interesting character.

[00:26:12] His redemption was silent.

[00:26:14] It was like he is doing stuff behind the scenes sacrificing his life.

[00:26:19] Essentially he knows he's sacrificing his life for the life of another person which I do think to some extent no matter how much you think that's what he did was perverted.

[00:26:28] I do think that is love.

[00:26:30] So like people say did you love Harry or not?

[00:26:32] I think he did which is kind of controversial because he's abusive to Harry.

[00:26:39] It's a wild discussion.

[00:26:41] I think he wants to do everything by himself and like make his name by himself too.

[00:26:46] So that's like part of the reason he can't escape his pain is like you've already decided that you're going to carry the burden of like making it right with yourself when you're not going to go to anybody and like.

[00:26:57] Yes.

[00:26:57] I don't know like even I feel like talking to Harry or being Harry's friend I feel like that would he wouldn't do that because it's just like I don't think he wants to feel better.

[00:27:07] Yeah.

[00:27:08] I'm completely with you.

[00:27:09] He just wants his pain.

[00:27:10] Yeah seriously.

[00:27:10] Because he like he needs something tangible to feel like I can do something against all the bad that I've already done.

[00:27:15] Dude that is such a phenomenal point.

[00:27:17] That is so good.

[00:27:19] Like he it's like his cross to bear.

[00:27:21] So like he has to bear it in some way.

[00:27:22] If he doesn't have that he doesn't have anything.

[00:27:24] That's a great point.

[00:27:27] But I hate Dumbledore.

[00:27:30] Really?

[00:27:30] For their conversation and like with the wind is like going around.

[00:27:36] I like I was so oh I can't even articulate this.

[00:27:40] I can't wait to get there.

[00:27:40] I hate Dumbledore in that moment.

[00:27:43] Like he's just like egging him on.

[00:27:45] Yeah.

[00:27:45] He's like just putting salt in the wound.

[00:27:47] He's like oh like are you do you actually care about them?

[00:27:51] And I was like Dumbledore's got this whole plan in his head about killing Harry.

[00:27:56] Maybe Snape is to die.

[00:27:58] And like he doesn't want to tell Snape any of that.

[00:28:01] Which like okay rightfully so.

[00:28:03] Snape's in a weird position.

[00:28:04] He's already like proven that he's not entirely trustworthy.

[00:28:07] But then for him to just like rub it in and like be nasty to him.

[00:28:10] I just like and just knowing the whole plan in his head.

[00:28:14] That like Harry's going to die and you're not going to tell Snape.

[00:28:17] It's like oh that's so bad.

[00:28:19] Yeah for sure.

[00:28:20] That pissed me off.

[00:28:21] And then he has a bunch of lines like when he says like oh you disgust me.

[00:28:24] That kind of stuff.

[00:28:25] That's not Dumbledore's finest moment.

[00:28:28] Again it's interesting in this because a lot of people.

[00:28:31] And this is where I think people get wrong.

[00:28:33] They demonize Snape and they like elevate Dumbledore.

[00:28:36] And I think the right way to view them is both of these characters have massive flaws.

[00:28:39] And whatever Dumbledore says isn't like like the be all end all.

[00:28:45] I think the way he's acting to Snape in this moment is like not the best.

[00:28:48] It's therapy or rehab.

[00:28:50] If you truly want someone to like come back on your side you're doing a terrible job of it.

[00:28:54] Yeah.

[00:28:55] And I wonder if that was in the back of Dumbledore's mind like oh I'm going to make you feel so bad.

[00:28:59] Yeah.

[00:29:00] Yeah.

[00:29:00] Honestly.

[00:29:00] Yeah.

[00:29:00] Because like he knows that he probably assumes that like Snape's going to die.

[00:29:04] Yeah.

[00:29:04] And then like just knowing that he thinks it's for Lily and not just for.

[00:29:10] Yeah.

[00:29:11] Like he gave him the wrong like motive.

[00:29:13] Yeah.

[00:29:14] And then I feel like he's really.

[00:29:19] Like.

[00:29:21] Like.

[00:29:21] I forget.

[00:29:22] Like monopolizing.

[00:29:24] Monopolizing.

[00:29:24] Is that a word?

[00:29:25] On like the little love that Snape has.

[00:29:28] And then it's like or maybe that's like the last pure thing that Snape has in him at this point.

[00:29:34] Like everything's come crashing down.

[00:29:36] But then like you're going to take that and then you're going to twist that.

[00:29:40] Yes.

[00:29:41] And then.

[00:29:42] Oh.

[00:29:42] It just is so bad.

[00:29:44] Yeah.

[00:29:44] And I was like am I going to end this book hating Dumbledore?

[00:29:47] Because like I.

[00:29:49] Dumbledore was just like mid the entire time.

[00:29:51] Like neither here nor there.

[00:29:52] There's little good moments.

[00:29:53] There's little bad moments.

[00:29:54] But then like that was just like.

[00:29:57] That just plummeted.

[00:29:59] Yeah.

[00:29:59] Any love that I had for Dumbledore.

[00:30:02] Did Lizzie ever love Dumbledore?

[00:30:05] Oh it was just gone.

[00:30:07] I just was so mad.

[00:30:09] And then at the end it's just like.

[00:30:11] I can't talk about the end.

[00:30:12] But it like comes up a little bit.

[00:30:14] But not that much.

[00:30:15] Yeah.

[00:30:16] That whole interaction again.

[00:30:18] That's like.

[00:30:20] We could have 10 podcasts on just that interaction alone.

[00:30:23] Where we talk about like Snape and Dumbledore's.

[00:30:28] Conversations and how they interacted with each other.

[00:30:31] Because there's not great stuff on either side.

[00:30:34] Like I don't know what I would have done in this situation too.

[00:30:36] I think Dumbledore to some extent.

[00:30:39] So he doesn't fully know at this moment that Harry has to die.

[00:30:44] I will say that.

[00:30:45] So like in the moment right before.

[00:30:47] Right when.

[00:30:47] Even right when Lily dies.

[00:30:48] But he had the prophecy.

[00:30:50] Yeah.

[00:30:50] Yeah.

[00:30:51] For sure.

[00:30:51] That's a great point.

[00:30:52] That's a phenomenal point.

[00:30:58] That was like the one thing that both of them knew.

[00:31:04] Yeah.

[00:31:04] Dude.

[00:31:04] That's a great point.

[00:31:07] I don't.

[00:31:08] Yeah.

[00:31:08] Maybe.

[00:31:09] That's dude.

[00:31:10] I have no.

[00:31:10] No counter argument for that.

[00:31:11] That is a phenomenal point.

[00:31:13] It makes Dumbledore seem.

[00:31:16] A little grosser.

[00:31:17] Because he's being very hypocritical there.

[00:31:19] Yeah.

[00:31:19] I understand like some of his like kind of like humor in it.

[00:31:25] And like the way he responds is like yeah.

[00:31:27] If you have like a terrible relationship with somebody or like somebody just stabbed you in

[00:31:31] the back.

[00:31:32] It's like you're not going to greet them with like all the pleasantries and like have no

[00:31:37] like history at all show up in your conversation.

[00:31:40] But.

[00:31:41] So like I kind of can't hold that against Dumbledore I guess.

[00:31:44] But.

[00:31:46] I mean.

[00:31:47] The way that you just lie to him.

[00:31:50] And just know that he's going to.

[00:31:52] He's going to.

[00:31:52] Snape's going to be Dumbledore's slave for the rest of his life.

[00:31:55] I think.

[00:31:56] And Dumbledore just knows that.

[00:31:57] This might sound slightly controversial.

[00:31:59] I think.

[00:32:01] Dumbledore.

[00:32:03] Made Snape what he is after this moment.

[00:32:05] He made him a slave.

[00:32:07] Yeah.

[00:32:08] He like condemned him to servitude because like.

[00:32:11] All right.

[00:32:12] Do what you can.

[00:32:14] Like undo all of your guilt about Lily.

[00:32:16] Come save Harry Potter.

[00:32:18] And then in the back of Dumbledore's mind is like psych you're both going to die.

[00:32:21] Yeah for real dude.

[00:32:23] And then at the end Dumbledore is like.

[00:32:25] Oh like just protecting you guys.

[00:32:28] Like with your information.

[00:32:29] I'm like you didn't protect anybody.

[00:32:31] Like there's so many other people in this story that died apart from the people that died

[00:32:34] in this book.

[00:32:35] Oh yeah.

[00:32:35] And they're like only like Fred, Tongs, Lupin, Serious Mad-Eye, Dobby.

[00:32:40] It's like only those people that we've lost.

[00:32:43] And like the other books.

[00:32:45] We're losing people in the other books unnecessarily too.

[00:32:48] It's just like in the wake and it's on the side.

[00:32:50] And then it's like not a big part of the story.

[00:32:53] But there have been a lot of unnecessary deaths.

[00:32:56] Yeah.

[00:32:57] Yeah.

[00:32:58] The one thing.

[00:32:59] Yeah.

[00:33:01] Come on.

[00:33:02] Where are you?

[00:33:04] You're out there somewhere.

[00:33:09] Yeah.

[00:33:11] I'll defend Dumbledore to some extent.

[00:33:13] Because there is a point where Dumbledore doesn't want Snape to live in silence about

[00:33:21] this.

[00:33:21] He does want him to.

[00:33:24] I don't know if he wants him to talk about this.

[00:33:26] About what?

[00:33:26] Lily?

[00:33:27] Yeah.

[00:33:28] About his love as protection.

[00:33:28] Why don't you want to be like, oh, I was like a teenager.

[00:33:30] I love this girl.

[00:33:30] I can't get over it.

[00:33:32] Because there's just the one weird line where like Snape essentially agrees to like, you

[00:33:36] know, protect him.

[00:33:38] And he goes very well, very well, very well.

[00:33:41] But never, never tell Dumbledore this must be between us.

[00:33:44] Swear it.

[00:33:44] I cannot bear, especially Potterstone.

[00:33:46] I want your word.

[00:33:47] And then Dumbledore goes, my word, Severus, that I shall never reveal the best of you.

[00:33:51] Dumbledore sighed looking down at Snape's ferocious anguished face if you insist.

[00:33:56] Like that's an interesting line.

[00:34:00] Because what is Dumbledore saying there?

[00:34:02] Is he saying like, I want to tell people about this because you're good.

[00:34:05] But like it wouldn't work in the plan if Harry knows that Snape is out protecting him.

[00:34:10] Would it?

[00:34:10] I don't know if it would.

[00:34:12] Like if you, I mean, yeah, who knows what would have happened to the entirety of the

[00:34:16] series if Snape knew everything.

[00:34:18] Yeah, for real.

[00:34:20] But in that line that you read, the thing that gets me is when he says, especially Potter's

[00:34:25] son.

[00:34:27] Like, ew.

[00:34:28] Like, why are you bringing like, it's like the fact that James is Harry's dad.

[00:34:33] He's the manipulation right there.

[00:34:33] Is like disgusting to him more than like anything else.

[00:34:37] So then that is like, is that love?

[00:34:39] Is that just lust or like possession again?

[00:34:43] Because like, that's so strange to be like, bring the paternity test into it.

[00:34:48] Like, yeah.

[00:34:50] Yeah.

[00:34:51] Seriously.

[00:34:52] James's son.

[00:34:53] Like, okay.

[00:34:53] I will say, okay.

[00:34:54] I mean, I keep saying serious.

[00:34:56] Serious came back in the head.

[00:34:58] I know.

[00:34:59] I know.

[00:35:00] Oh, devastating.

[00:35:02] Okay.

[00:35:02] Here's my question for you though.

[00:35:04] Because I will say this.

[00:35:06] How would you have acted if you were in Dumbledore's position?

[00:35:10] If you knew all this stuff, if you knew that Harry had to die, what's your, what's your

[00:35:16] move?

[00:35:18] What does, so Dumbledore knows about Horcruxes.

[00:35:25] He's piecing things together.

[00:35:28] Doesn't fully know about Horcruxes yet.

[00:35:30] Probably slowly piecing things together here.

[00:35:34] So, does he know Harry's a Horcrux or he's just going off the prophecy?

[00:35:41] Probably just the prophecy.

[00:35:43] Probably just the prophecy.

[00:35:44] Because then now Voldemort's chosen Harry as his sequel.

[00:35:48] Over the next few years, I think it's firmed up that he knows that Harry is a Horcrux.

[00:35:58] He knows about the Hallows.

[00:36:00] Yeah.

[00:36:01] And it's for sure firmed up that he knows he's a Horcrux when Voldemort takes his blood in

[00:36:05] the fourth book.

[00:36:06] That is like absolute canon confirmed because he's thrilled when Voldemort takes his blood.

[00:36:11] That was the gleam of victory in Dumbledore's eyes was that he, Dumbledore knew at that

[00:36:16] moment that Harry could live.

[00:36:18] There was a sliver of hope that Harry could live because, um, Voldemort became a Horcrux

[00:36:24] for Harry.

[00:36:25] Yeah.

[00:36:26] You have to explain that to me.

[00:36:27] Yeah, I'll explain that.

[00:36:28] It's like fun.

[00:36:28] It's like phenomenal writing.

[00:36:30] Some phenomenal freaking writing.

[00:36:32] It was like, it's hard to understand, to be honest, for some of it, but it's great.

[00:36:35] I reread like most of these pages.

[00:36:38] Let's just by nature of like underlining them and going back and stuff.

[00:36:41] But definitely I was like, whoa, this is like very complex.

[00:36:45] Yeah.

[00:36:45] And I actually have to like recall what happened in the other books too.

[00:36:48] Yep.

[00:36:49] Yep.

[00:36:49] So.

[00:36:50] It's good.

[00:36:50] I don't know what I would do in Dumbledore's shoes.

[00:36:53] I feel like it's easier to, uh, criticize people than take on their own positions and their

[00:36:59] own jobs.

[00:37:00] Yep.

[00:37:01] Easier to be a hater than a doer, but.

[00:37:04] Yep.

[00:37:04] Absolutely.

[00:37:06] Yeah.

[00:37:07] Let me read you some of these, uh, some of these other passages and then I want to talk

[00:37:11] about them for a little bit and we'll go on to the next chapter.

[00:37:13] Um, cause we've already been discussing this one for 40 minutes.

[00:37:17] A single character study.

[00:37:19] It's great.

[00:37:20] I love this though.

[00:37:21] It's so good.

[00:37:23] Um, yeah, I could go on and on too.

[00:37:26] Yeah.

[00:37:26] That's why these chapters are just so good.

[00:37:29] There's so much in here.

[00:37:31] Um, it says, I'm going to read you a few lines cause they're great.

[00:37:35] Read the whole chapter.

[00:37:36] I know.

[00:37:37] It's one of the best.

[00:37:38] Snape raised his eyebrows and his tone was sardonic.

[00:37:41] So he asked, are you intending to let him kill you?

[00:37:44] Certainly not.

[00:37:45] You must kill me.

[00:37:46] There was a long silence broken only by an odd clicking noise.

[00:37:50] Fox, the Phoenix was gnawing a bit of cuddle on.

[00:37:52] Would you like me to do it now?

[00:37:54] Asked Snape, his voice heavy with irony.

[00:37:56] Or would you like a few moments to compose an epitaph?

[00:37:58] Oh, not quite yet.

[00:38:00] Said Dumbledore smiling.

[00:38:01] I dare say the moment will present itself in due course given what has happened tonight.

[00:38:05] He indicated his withered hand.

[00:38:06] We can be sure that it will happen within a year.

[00:38:09] If you don't mind dying.

[00:38:10] Said Snape roughly.

[00:38:12] Why not let Draco do it?

[00:38:14] That boy's soul is not yet so damaged.

[00:38:16] Said Dumbledore.

[00:38:17] I would not have it ripped apart on my own account.

[00:38:20] And my soul, Dumbledore?

[00:38:22] Mine?

[00:38:23] You alone know whether it will harm your soul to help an old man avoid pain and humiliation.

[00:38:27] Said Dumbledore.

[00:38:29] So again, like you're kind of right.

[00:38:31] Snape becomes Dumbledore's slave.

[00:38:33] He like has to do his bidding for him.

[00:38:34] Their relationship is so confusing to me.

[00:38:36] Because like they're joking around like so much.

[00:38:39] Like everything in there is like could be a joke.

[00:38:41] Yeah.

[00:38:41] It just depends what you say.

[00:38:42] Like they could be great friends.

[00:38:43] Yeah.

[00:38:44] But they're not.

[00:38:45] They are but they're not.

[00:38:46] And then at the same time it's like so harsh.

[00:38:48] Like everything is a joke but then everything is like not a joke and it's super serious.

[00:38:54] Yep.

[00:38:55] But it's just icky.

[00:38:57] I know.

[00:38:58] Or not.

[00:38:58] It's not even icky.

[00:38:59] It's just like.

[00:39:01] I don't know what it is.

[00:39:02] It's strange.

[00:39:02] Yeah.

[00:39:02] I don't know what it is either.

[00:39:04] Because the way they're joking around.

[00:39:07] It seems to me like there should be like a way deeper relationship there.

[00:39:11] But then sometimes there's like the seething hatred where all you can do is just like be

[00:39:17] passive aggressive and like maybe it reads as like a joke.

[00:39:19] But I don't know how it looks in the movies.

[00:39:21] But yeah.

[00:39:22] It's like very.

[00:39:23] Ugh.

[00:39:24] Yeah.

[00:39:25] It's intense.

[00:39:26] That's why I said you have to ask me specific questions because I can't articulate how I feel

[00:39:29] about all this.

[00:39:30] I know.

[00:39:30] I know.

[00:39:31] Agreed.

[00:39:31] Agreed.

[00:39:32] Everything.

[00:39:33] But for this one you understand why Snape killed Dumbledore then right?

[00:39:37] He had no choice.

[00:39:39] He had to kill Dumbledore.

[00:39:41] Yeah.

[00:39:41] So it's one part I love about this chapter specifically because it just reimagines everything

[00:39:46] that you thought about the books.

[00:39:47] When you reread the books not that you understand all Snape's motives for everything because

[00:39:50] like he's still not a great person when he's doing certain things.

[00:39:53] But you understand why he has to do certain things.

[00:39:55] And there's a line in book six when he's about to kill Dumbledore that like nails it

[00:39:59] for the reader because it says he has like a look of revulsion and hatred etched in every

[00:40:03] line of his face.

[00:40:04] And you read that at the first time and you're like oh he just wants he hates Dumbledore

[00:40:08] so he wants to kill him.

[00:40:09] And that's true because to be honest I think he does hate Dumbledore with everything because

[00:40:14] he's Dumbledore made him kill him at that moment.

[00:40:17] And that's like the last chain too.

[00:40:19] Like he just sealed his feet as like being evil Snape.

[00:40:22] Yep.

[00:40:23] But Snape has to kill Dumbledore because Draco has the wand and then.

[00:40:29] No because Dumbledore's initial plan was that Snape would become the master of the elder

[00:40:33] wand and Voldemort would take a long time to figure out.

[00:40:36] And Voldemort was on the track but Dumbledore did not know Draco was going to come and unhand

[00:40:41] him.

[00:40:41] So at that moment Dumbledore.

[00:40:43] But he knew Draco wanted to kill him.

[00:40:45] He knew Draco wanted to kill him but he didn't think Draco was going to be able to disarm

[00:40:48] him.

[00:40:49] That was like that kind of came out of nowhere for Dumbledore.

[00:40:51] So he adapted.

[00:40:53] And so yeah exactly.

[00:40:54] And so the issue the real reason that he that Dumbledore still begs Snape to kill him

[00:41:01] in that moment was I think a few parts to throw Voldemort off the scent a little bit

[00:41:08] of like who owns the elder wand.

[00:41:10] He's it's gonna have to take him a little bit longer.

[00:41:12] And then there's also the point where he mentions here to save Draco's soul like he

[00:41:17] has to do it.

[00:41:18] And because they just like discuss this this was the whole plan for them.

[00:41:21] And like he had to go through it.

[00:41:23] He didn't want another person killing Dumbledore because again Dumbledore wanted I don't know

[00:41:29] if it's like his friend or not.

[00:41:30] He wanted Snape to kill him.

[00:41:33] He's like putting all of his burdens on Snape.

[00:41:38] And again this might sound weird to some fans but poor Snape in some of these moments.

[00:41:43] Yeah.

[00:41:43] I feel for him.

[00:41:44] He's carrying the whole plot.

[00:41:46] Yeah.

[00:41:46] Yep.

[00:41:47] Like take Snape out what's happening.

[00:41:49] Yeah.

[00:41:49] Honestly that's a fascinating point that you might mention because it's like Dumbledore knows

[00:41:54] the whole plan.

[00:41:55] And he has like a pack mule and he dumps all of his other stuff on Snape.

[00:42:00] So like he can think clearly about this plan.

[00:42:02] He knows everything that's gonna happen.

[00:42:03] He has the entire plan set.

[00:42:05] And Snape doesn't know really any part of the plan.

[00:42:07] Yeah.

[00:42:08] He's not been led in by Dumbledore in any way.

[00:42:10] Which kind of shows you how true his heart is because he has like blind trust.

[00:42:14] Yeah.

[00:42:14] For sure.

[00:42:16] Dang.

[00:42:17] This is a Rape Pro Snape podcast right now.

[00:42:20] Slytherin.

[00:42:20] What was that?

[00:42:22] It is wild.

[00:42:23] I did kind of hate Slytherin at the end of this but whatever.

[00:42:27] They have.

[00:42:27] There's redemption for Slytherin.

[00:42:29] Don't worry.

[00:42:30] But then there's this.

[00:42:32] Another line.

[00:42:33] This is like the penultimate line.

[00:42:35] It's great.

[00:42:36] Here he must not know.

[00:42:37] Not until the last moment.

[00:42:38] Not until it is necessary.

[00:42:40] Otherwise how could he have the strength to do what he must.

[00:42:42] What must be done.

[00:42:43] Tell him what.

[00:42:44] But Dumbledore took a deep breath and closed his eyes.

[00:42:47] Tell him that on the night Lord Voldemort tried to kill him.

[00:42:49] When Lily cast her own life between them as a shield.

[00:42:51] The killing curse rebounded upon Lord Voldemort.

[00:42:54] And a fragment of Voldemort's soul was blasted apart from the hole.

[00:42:57] And latched itself onto the only living soul left in the collapsed building.

[00:43:01] Part of Lord Voldemort lives inside Harry.

[00:43:05] And is that which gives him the power of speech with snakes.

[00:43:07] And a connection with Lord Voldemort's mind that he has never understood.

[00:43:10] And while that fragment of soul unmissed by Voldemort remains attached to and protected by Harry.

[00:43:16] Lord Voldemort cannot die.

[00:43:19] So you understood this from the very beginning because you remember this.

[00:43:22] That Harry is a horcrux.

[00:43:24] Horcrux.

[00:43:25] Mm-hmm.

[00:43:25] So the issue is that Lily saved Harry.

[00:43:31] Cast herself between them.

[00:43:33] The love curse is why he could not kill Harry in the first place.

[00:43:37] But when he tried, he inadvertently made Harry a horcrux.

[00:43:42] So Harry has this blood protection in him that doesn't allow Voldemort to kill him at this moment.

[00:43:47] And he has, he is a horcrux at this moment.

[00:43:52] When Snape then takes, or when Snape, when Voldemort takes his own blood.

[00:43:57] Or takes Harry's blood.

[00:43:59] When he's recreated and reformed.

[00:44:02] He's taking some of the protection that Lily left.

[00:44:04] And he's imparting it into his own blood.

[00:44:08] And he thinks that's going to give him an advantage because he thinks that's going to negate the protection.

[00:44:14] But Voldemort doesn't see that.

[00:44:19] It's like almost a reversal.

[00:44:21] Where it's like this horcrux.

[00:44:23] He has now tethered Harry to life.

[00:44:27] That while Voldemort lives, Harry cannot die.

[00:44:31] Because of this blood protection.

[00:44:34] That is in Lily's.

[00:44:36] Voldemort lives, Harry cannot die.

[00:44:39] Yeah, it's slightly confusing.

[00:44:41] I'm not really explaining it all that well.

[00:44:42] It's okay.

[00:44:43] We'll get there.

[00:44:44] Yeah, we'll get there.

[00:44:45] So the horcrux in Harry can't die because he has his blood protection.

[00:44:51] Or just Harry can't die.

[00:44:53] Harry can't die.

[00:44:54] No, so Harry can't die in the beginning because he has his blood protection.

[00:44:57] He still has some of his blood protection.

[00:44:59] I don't know, like, I don't know, percentage or whatever.

[00:45:03] Voldemort.

[00:45:03] Yeah.

[00:45:05] Voldemort has tried to kill him, has been unsuccessful.

[00:45:08] He has had this protection of, like, Lily Potter's love over him.

[00:45:12] It's probably not in, like, this ultimate form of Voldemort could never kill him if you wanted to.

[00:45:19] But anytime Voldemort tried to kill him through, like, lesser means, this protection of Lily's love, which is in his very, like, blood, protected Harry.

[00:45:28] So, like, when Quirrell tried to attack him, it protected him.

[00:45:33] Like, Quirrell tried to, like, you know, touch Harry.

[00:45:35] Yeah, yeah.

[00:45:35] And Quirrell, you know, fades into oblivion and dies.

[00:45:41] But if Voldemort truly wanted to, if he could just, like, if he just avowed a cadavered when Harry wasn't looking, he would probably be able to kill Harry.

[00:45:48] But the only issue is that when Voldemort came back, he used Harry's blood.

[00:45:51] And then they talk about this being the love crux, where Lily's love, which was in Harry's veins, which is now in Voldemort's veins.

[00:46:01] Okay.

[00:46:02] Is the thing that's keeping Harry alive.

[00:46:03] So, Harry dies, but he doesn't die because this love crux, the blood pumping through.

[00:46:09] So, this is phenomenal writing.

[00:46:12] So, Harry's blood lives on in someone else.

[00:46:13] Yes.

[00:46:13] Therefore, Harry lives.

[00:46:15] Through not death, but through love.

[00:46:17] Love.

[00:46:18] The love crux, it is some of the most brilliant writing because this whole series is about horcruxes and how you have to kill someone in order to tether your life here on Earth.

[00:46:28] Horcruxes are not the, are not, they're reprehensible when you murder someone, but they are great when your love casts such power that you can actually keep other people alive because your love is that powerful.

[00:46:42] So, when Lily casts herself, Harry, in Harry's blood exists this love protection.

[00:46:48] And when Voldemort used Harry's blood, he took that love protection into his own veins.

[00:46:53] But it binded Harry to life.

[00:46:55] That as long as Voldemort was alive, he was acting, Voldemort was acting as a horcrux to Harry.

[00:47:01] And it wasn't through death.

[00:47:03] It was through sacrificial death, which is the ultimate form of love.

[00:47:07] It wasn't through murder.

[00:47:07] It was through sacrificial death.

[00:47:10] It's some freaking phenomenal writing.

[00:47:13] It is some great storytelling.

[00:47:16] That's insane.

[00:47:17] So good.

[00:47:17] Yeah.

[00:47:18] Wow.

[00:47:19] It's, it's just, it's so good.

[00:47:21] Every time there's like a big point in these next chapters, explain it to me because I want to soak it in and I want to understand it completely.

[00:47:30] Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

[00:47:32] Here's a longer, a longer line that I just love.

[00:47:35] That makes me want to cry.

[00:47:36] I know.

[00:47:36] I'm going to cry at some point in this podcast.

[00:47:39] Good, good, good.

[00:47:39] That's what you want.

[00:47:41] It's so good.

[00:47:41] Aye, aye.

[00:47:42] And this is what we get.

[00:47:43] Love crux.

[00:47:44] So the boy, the boy must die, asked Snape quite calmly.

[00:47:48] And Voldemort himself must do it, Severus.

[00:47:51] That is essential.

[00:47:52] Another long silence.

[00:47:53] Then Snape said, I thought all these years that we were protecting him for her, for Lily.

[00:48:01] We have protected him because it has been essential to teach him, to raise him, to let him try his strength, said Dumbledore.

[00:48:07] His eyes still tight shut.

[00:48:09] Meanwhile, the connection between them grows even stronger, a parasitic growth.

[00:48:13] Sometimes I have thought he suspects it himself.

[00:48:16] If I know him, he will have arranged matters so that when he does set out to meet his death, it will truly mean the end of Voldemort.

[00:48:22] Dumbledore opened his eyes.

[00:48:24] Snape looked horrified.

[00:48:26] You have kept him alive so that he can die at the right moment?

[00:48:30] Don't be shocked, Severus.

[00:48:32] How many men and women have you watched die?

[00:48:34] Lately, only those whom I could not save, said Snape.

[00:48:37] He stood up.

[00:48:40] Amen, brother.

[00:48:42] You have used me.

[00:48:46] Meaning?

[00:48:47] I have spied for you and lied for you.

[00:48:49] I have put myself in mortal danger for you.

[00:48:51] Everything was supposed to be to keep Lily Potter's son safe.

[00:48:54] Now you tell me you have been raising him like a pig for slaughter.

[00:48:58] Yes.

[00:48:59] So good.

[00:49:00] You're touching Severus, said Dumbledore seriously.

[00:49:02] Have you grown to care for the boy after all?

[00:49:05] For him?

[00:49:06] Shouted Snape.

[00:49:07] Expecto Patronum.

[00:49:09] From the tip of his wand burst the silver dough.

[00:49:12] She landed on the office floor, bounded across the office and soared out of the window.

[00:49:18] Dumbledore watched her fly away.

[00:49:20] As her silvery glow faded, he turned back to Snape and his eyes were full of tears.

[00:49:25] After all this time?

[00:49:27] Always, said Snape.

[00:49:31] Dude, I was like beside myself in that.

[00:49:34] Really?

[00:49:35] That was so sad.

[00:49:36] It's so good.

[00:49:37] And the dough is Lily's Patronus.

[00:49:40] Yep.

[00:49:40] You nailed that, but you also missed it.

[00:49:43] You were like, I think Lily's Patronus is the dough.

[00:49:45] And Lily's Patronus is a dough.

[00:49:47] Which is why Snape turned into a dough because he loved Lily.

[00:49:50] And that to me is the ultimate proof of that.

[00:49:52] What he had was somewhat of a love for Lily.

[00:49:56] Because I don't think a Patronus changes unless you don't have a love for that person.

[00:50:00] Yeah.

[00:50:00] I agree.

[00:50:02] I love that Snape has put out some zingers here.

[00:50:04] I know.

[00:50:05] Like, he's spitting bars.

[00:50:06] I know.

[00:50:07] And then Dumbledore's like, but this is touching, Severus.

[00:50:11] Yeah, right?

[00:50:11] His response is annoying me.

[00:50:13] Like, you're literally enslaving this guy to you.

[00:50:16] And you're going to have the audacity to be like, poor Snape.

[00:50:19] Yeah.

[00:50:20] Like, he lost the love of his life, maybe, whatever.

[00:50:24] Yeah.

[00:50:24] But then, like, oh, this is just so messed up.

[00:50:27] Yep.

[00:50:28] And then for the fact of, like, Snape using his Patronus and, like, revealing himself like that.

[00:50:34] Like, look, this is where I'm actually, like, this is how meaningful it was to me.

[00:50:37] It's like, that was like, I feel like the Snape just got so betrayed in that moment that he was, like, willing to be vulnerable and be like, look.

[00:50:46] Like, you don't even understand how much it mattered to me.

[00:50:49] Voldemort kind of makes fun, or Dumbledore kind of makes fun of him a little bit.

[00:50:51] And he's crying.

[00:50:52] Yeah.

[00:50:54] Snape.

[00:50:55] I love you, Snape.

[00:50:58] This is wild.

[00:51:00] Ooh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[00:51:01] That's actually interesting.

[00:51:03] What?

[00:51:04] Okay.

[00:51:05] What's the, who's the antecedent?

[00:51:07] It has to be Snape in this.

[00:51:08] It can be Dumbledore, though.

[00:51:10] This is, like, textual criticism.

[00:51:11] I went back and forth about who's crying.

[00:51:13] Yeah.

[00:51:13] Yeah.

[00:51:13] I just thought it was Snape crying, but I read it, like, five times.

[00:51:17] I initially, when I just read it to you, I read it as Dumbledore crying.

[00:51:20] Dumbledore watched her fly away.

[00:51:21] But I think it's Snape crying.

[00:51:22] And as her silvery glow faded, he turned back to Snape, and his eyes were full of tears.

[00:51:27] Or she does it purposefully and lets you choose, like, who you wish to see in the better light.

[00:51:32] Dude, that's so good.

[00:51:33] Isn't that insane?

[00:51:34] Yeah, yeah.

[00:51:34] I know.

[00:51:35] I sat and thought about that one for a while.

[00:51:37] But my initial reaction was, Snape's crying.

[00:51:39] And I have that on my reaction.

[00:51:42] And then the next one I sent you is, why am I crying?

[00:51:46] I can't wait to watch all those.

[00:51:48] I'm so pumped.

[00:51:49] They're, like, very short.

[00:51:50] It's perfect.

[00:51:51] But I think of Snape as the one that's crying.

[00:51:55] I need to throw this on Discord and ask people.

[00:52:01] Yeah, who's the antecedent?

[00:52:03] This is touching Severus, said Dumbledore seriously.

[00:52:06] Like, that to me isn't...

[00:52:09] Like, he wouldn't go from having his eyes shut, saying something seriously, then to crying.

[00:52:13] But then we already know that the Patronus spell is, like, very emotional to conjure.

[00:52:22] So, like, who knows what he was thinking about in that moment, too.

[00:52:26] He's thinking about Lily.

[00:52:27] And then it, like...

[00:52:29] It's like Harry later on is, like, struggling to cast his Patronus because he's so exhausted.

[00:52:33] I'm like, it has to be, like, a little bit physically or emotionally draining to cast the Patronus, too.

[00:52:38] So then that makes sense to me that Snape would be, like, more vulnerable.

[00:52:41] And, like, thinking about some happy memory.

[00:52:43] Getting the worst portrayal of his life.

[00:52:45] Signing his contract of slavery to Dumbledore.

[00:52:48] Boom.

[00:52:49] Tears.

[00:52:49] Dude, it's so good.

[00:52:51] And he cries later, too, about Lily.

[00:52:53] So I'm like, surely it's Snape that's crying.

[00:52:55] Yeah, dude, it's so good.

[00:52:57] Tears drip down his hooked nose.

[00:52:59] Oh, yeah.

[00:53:00] Whatever she says.

[00:53:03] Oh, dang.

[00:53:03] That's good.

[00:53:04] Did you...

[00:53:05] You didn't think it was Snape crying?

[00:53:06] When I just read it, I mean, I probably go back and forth.

[00:53:09] Sometimes I maybe just overlook that line.

[00:53:11] But when I just read it, I thought Dumbledore was the one.

[00:53:13] But I think it's Snape now.

[00:53:17] It's a great line.

[00:53:18] Yeah, she maybe just lets you choose who you want.

[00:53:21] I think that's so interesting, too.

[00:53:22] Yeah.

[00:53:23] Because the fact that, like, there's people out there that aren't agreeing with us.

[00:53:26] Yeah, I know.

[00:53:26] Isn't it great?

[00:53:28] Isn't it kind of fun?

[00:53:29] Yeah.

[00:53:30] But, yeah, this is why...

[00:53:31] You always are like, this might be controversial.

[00:53:33] And I'm just like, this is the only right way to think.

[00:53:36] This is what I think.

[00:53:37] I'm not afraid to say that.

[00:53:39] That's why I love this.

[00:53:41] We're a podcast that celebrates civility.

[00:53:45] You can disagree with us as much as you want.

[00:53:47] But if you come out hating us, then we'll shut this down real quick.

[00:53:54] I feel like we have our fair share of, like, agree and disagree.

[00:53:57] Yeah, agreed.

[00:53:58] But, like, why would I care what your opinion is?

[00:54:00] Like, it doesn't really change.

[00:54:01] Like, you bring up good points and stuff.

[00:54:03] And you do change my mind.

[00:54:04] But, like, that's how I feel about life in general.

[00:54:07] I'm like, why would anybody else's opinion about anything affect me?

[00:54:11] Like, that's their life, you know?

[00:54:13] Exactly.

[00:54:14] I love that.

[00:54:15] You've changed my mind on a ton of stuff.

[00:54:16] I've changed your mind on a ton of stuff.

[00:54:17] Yeah.

[00:54:18] It's good.

[00:54:19] It's healthy.

[00:54:20] Trelawney.

[00:54:22] Trelawney.

[00:54:22] Trelawney, exactly.

[00:54:23] I will go through that prediction by prediction.

[00:54:27] Prediction podcast.

[00:54:29] All right.

[00:54:32] Well, we're done with this chapter.

[00:54:33] Unless you had anything else.

[00:54:35] An hour later, we'll go to the next one.

[00:54:37] Wow.

[00:54:37] The next ones will be a little shorter, I think.

[00:54:39] We'll talk about a lot of them.

[00:54:45] No, I think that was good.

[00:54:47] Just that, like, he felt bad about George's ear injury, too.

[00:54:54] Yeah.

[00:54:54] And then, like, he was like, oh, I know what I'm going to do to get the sword.

[00:54:57] Yeah.

[00:54:58] So, in the beginning of this chapter, too, in the forest again chapter,

[00:55:02] because this, like, correlates with what we were just talking about.

[00:55:06] Harry's kind of walking, and he doesn't feel like ultimate betrayal of Snape,

[00:55:11] of Dumbledore, but he feels it.

[00:55:15] He doesn't care about it at this moment.

[00:55:17] This is even the line that we get.

[00:55:18] Dumbledore's betrayal was almost nothing.

[00:55:20] Of course there had been a bigger plan.

[00:55:22] Harry had simply been too foolish to see it.

[00:55:23] He realized that now.

[00:55:25] So, Harry's, like, walking into this, accepting his fate.

[00:55:27] But I know the answer that you're going to say to this question,

[00:55:31] but did Dumbledore truly raise Harry as a pig for slaughter?

[00:55:35] You know my answer?

[00:55:36] I don't know my answer.

[00:55:38] What's my answer?

[00:55:40] Yes, because Dumbledore sucks.

[00:55:44] Did he truly raise Harry?

[00:55:46] I mean, it's...

[00:55:47] Yeah, I mean, yeah.

[00:55:48] There's no other option.

[00:55:49] There is no...

[00:55:50] It's a dead end.

[00:55:51] Yes.

[00:55:51] You're not getting out.

[00:55:52] Yeah.

[00:55:53] And I feel like that's why Harry isn't, like, totally crushed in the moment.

[00:55:56] He's just like, whoa.

[00:55:57] I need to do what I need to do.

[00:55:59] I need to die.

[00:56:00] Yeah.

[00:56:00] Because, like, the only way out is through.

[00:56:02] But that through is a dead end.

[00:56:04] You're just going to die.

[00:56:06] Yep, yep, yep.

[00:56:06] So, yeah, essentially, I guess he did really just raise him as a pig for slaughter.

[00:56:11] Which is atrocious, but understandable.

[00:56:16] Yeah.

[00:56:16] Because what are you going to do?

[00:56:18] This whole situation sucks.

[00:56:19] There shouldn't be the Dark Lord rising up again.

[00:56:22] Yeah.

[00:56:23] Or ever.

[00:56:25] So then Dumbledore should have felt bad that he ever put Voldemort in Hogwarts.

[00:56:30] Yeah, for real.

[00:56:31] Let's go back to that.

[00:56:33] Dumbledore.

[00:56:35] It's just all your fault.

[00:56:37] Yeah.

[00:56:38] I mean, he died too, so.

[00:56:40] Yeah, agreed.

[00:56:41] What can you do?

[00:56:47] When...

[00:56:47] Do you think you know when your Patronus changes?

[00:56:52] What do you mean?

[00:56:55] Do you feel that in you when your Patronus changes?

[00:56:58] Or do you have to, like, cast a Patronus and then see it and be surprised that, whoa,

[00:57:02] my Patronus is something else?

[00:57:04] Because, like, at some point, Snape cast a Patronus, realized it was a doe, and was like,

[00:57:09] I'm never doing that again.

[00:57:10] Or you just, like, feel it internally that, like, your Patronus changed.

[00:57:14] Mm-hmm.

[00:57:17] Because, like, did he just find Dementors one day and then...

[00:57:20] That's actually great.

[00:57:21] That'd be a great fan fiction.

[00:57:23] Like, how does your Patronus change?

[00:57:26] I actually don't know that.

[00:57:27] What's the moment that you find out?

[00:57:30] Yeah.

[00:57:30] What did he do?

[00:57:33] I feel like Tongs would just be like, oh my gosh, that's so cool.

[00:57:37] It's a werewolf.

[00:57:38] And then Snape is like, no, Lily.

[00:57:44] Oh, one second.

[00:57:45] The camera battery is...

[00:57:46] I didn't have another battery for it, so I just have to...

[00:57:49] Yeah, so I think one of the more interesting questions for...

[00:57:54] Rather than saying, like, did Dumbledore really raise him for slaughter, is what was

[00:57:58] Dumbledore's other option?

[00:57:59] And I don't think he had another option.

[00:58:01] He has no option.

[00:58:01] Yeah.

[00:58:02] So he's backed up against the corner.

[00:58:04] But his only issue is that he's not communicating any of this stuff to anybody.

[00:58:07] He has this plan.

[00:58:08] But, like, can we even say that's bad?

[00:58:09] Like, we don't know what would have happened to the plan.

[00:58:13] Like, the more people you tell...

[00:58:14] Yep, agreed.

[00:58:15] ...the riskier it is.

[00:58:16] Like, you would literally not tell anyone.

[00:58:18] Yeah.

[00:58:19] You'd be like, this is my problem.

[00:58:22] You got me on that one.

[00:58:24] I don't know.

[00:58:24] Yeah, because it's like, you can hate people.

[00:58:26] You can hate on people.

[00:58:27] But, like, at the end of the day, you got to do what you got to do.

[00:58:30] Yep.

[00:58:31] So it's like, I feel like my dislike for Dumbledore is not even justified in a lot of ways.

[00:58:39] Because he's kind of left...

[00:58:43] No, it's justified.

[00:58:44] Okay.

[00:58:45] And I'll say it's justified for this reason, because I don't think...

[00:58:47] I personally, to some extent, don't think Dumbledore practices what he preaches.

[00:58:55] Because, yes, he's kind.

[00:58:59] Snape is mean.

[00:59:01] Dumbledore is kind.

[00:59:03] Do either of them truly love someone currently at this moment?

[00:59:10] Both of them do.

[00:59:11] Who?

[00:59:12] Dumbledore loves Ariana.

[00:59:16] Yeah.

[00:59:17] And Snape loves Lily.

[00:59:20] And they weren't able to get over that.

[00:59:22] Have they allowed themselves to love another person?

[00:59:28] No.

[00:59:30] I don't think so either.

[00:59:31] So, in my mind, I say, what is the difference between the two?

[00:59:35] They're parallel characters.

[00:59:36] There's different starts and beginnings.

[00:59:39] Yep, exactly.

[00:59:40] Hmm.

[00:59:42] I think they're very, very parallel characters.

[00:59:45] But one is kind and one is not kind.

[00:59:47] And we elevate Dumbledore because kindness is a great thing.

[00:59:50] You want to be kind to people.

[00:59:51] And it's great.

[00:59:52] But at the end of the day, Dumbledore preaches this idea of love and truly loving another person.

[00:59:58] That's like a magic that knows no bounds.

[01:00:01] But.

[01:00:03] The one person that Dumbledore loved died.

[01:00:05] The one person that Snape loved died.

[01:00:07] Yeah.

[01:00:07] They each.

[01:00:08] Like, Dumbledore is definitely carrying the guilt of that.

[01:00:10] Sorry.

[01:00:10] I know I interrupted you.

[01:00:11] No, go ahead.

[01:00:12] This is better.

[01:00:12] This is better.

[01:00:13] Keep going.

[01:00:13] Like, the way that Dumbledore carries the guilt of his sister is like very similar to the way that Snape carries the burden of like Lily having died.

[01:00:25] Yeah.

[01:00:25] So like, yeah, in that sense, they're both like extremely similar.

[01:00:29] But yeah, the one's a good one's bad.

[01:00:33] Is that all that matters?

[01:00:34] I don't even think Snape's bad.

[01:00:36] Like, it's just like a dark wizard, light wizard thing.

[01:00:38] But then Dumbledore for half his life was like a dark wizard, I feel like.

[01:00:44] Yeah, he has some.

[01:00:45] Okay, so he had some grossness and he turned from it and he had a more visible turn.

[01:00:51] Snape went to the dark side.

[01:00:53] Maybe.

[01:00:54] I think Snape had a more visible turn.

[01:00:57] Or.

[01:00:58] Not visible to the dark side world.

[01:00:59] Visible to us.

[01:01:02] But Snape silently turned.

[01:01:06] No one else really saw his turn.

[01:01:07] Everyone still thought he was a death eater.

[01:01:09] Till the day that he died.

[01:01:11] Which is like a hundred times harder to do.

[01:01:13] Yeah, agreed.

[01:01:14] Agreed.

[01:01:15] I think Snape's path was way harder than Dumbledore's path was.

[01:01:19] Dumbledore says in the next chapter that he truly loved Harry.

[01:01:22] I don't know if that's fully true.

[01:01:24] Dumbledore?

[01:01:25] Yeah.

[01:01:25] I think that he did it to an extent.

[01:01:27] I definitely.

[01:01:27] I mean, I love Dumbledore as a character.

[01:01:29] I think he's a fascinating character.

[01:01:30] I think he's more complex than people sometimes make him out to be, to be honest.

[01:01:35] But.

[01:01:38] I don't know.

[01:01:43] Dumbledore had to like.

[01:01:45] He was.

[01:01:45] Even at this point, Dumbledore is still fighting for the greater good.

[01:01:49] Which is weird.

[01:01:51] Because their character is.

[01:01:52] This is like how I view them.

[01:01:54] Like Dumbledore knows what the greater good is.

[01:01:57] Which is to defeat Voldemort.

[01:01:58] He says that he loves Harry.

[01:02:01] But he still sacrifices Harry over the greater good.

[01:02:05] Snape, on the other hand.

[01:02:07] Like loves Harry.

[01:02:09] And whatever the heck.

[01:02:10] Why you want to say that is loving Harry?

[01:02:12] To some extent.

[01:02:13] Doesn't know what this is.

[01:02:16] And his greater good is to keep Harry alive.

[01:02:19] And when it runs up against Dumbledore's greater good.

[01:02:23] Snape doesn't know how to compute that.

[01:02:25] And he feels like he's been used.

[01:02:26] He feels like he's been overrun.

[01:02:27] He feels like everything is a lie.

[01:02:30] I don't think like point A that you just made about.

[01:02:33] Or Dumbledore sacrificing Harry above the greater good.

[01:02:36] I don't think that's true.

[01:02:38] Because I feel like sacrificing Harry is for the greater good.

[01:02:41] You just there's like one person.

[01:02:43] Yeah.

[01:02:43] Yeah.

[01:02:44] Okay.

[01:02:44] Is that what you meant?

[01:02:45] I'm kind of with you on that.

[01:02:46] Yeah.

[01:02:46] That's just a rephrasing.

[01:02:47] I think.

[01:02:47] Or like a better way to say what I was trying to say.

[01:02:49] Like to me like Harry is the take it to like the greater good.

[01:02:53] Yes.

[01:02:53] Yeah.

[01:02:53] Okay.

[01:02:54] But he still he says he loves Harry.

[01:02:56] So it's like he's sacrificing.

[01:02:59] You know.

[01:03:00] Maybe Dumbledore's like I'm so generous because I'm giving up someone I love for the greater good.

[01:03:07] Yeah.

[01:03:07] He would do that.

[01:03:08] Could be.

[01:03:09] Could be.

[01:03:10] I'm so good at what I do.

[01:03:11] I just give up people for the greater good.

[01:03:13] Guys.

[01:03:14] I had to lose someone I loved.

[01:03:16] But that occurred to me.

[01:03:18] I'm so glad you brought up the greater good because that was my thought when they were on

[01:03:22] that hill with like the wind everywhere.

[01:03:24] Yeah.

[01:03:25] That one.

[01:03:25] I was like Dumbledore never gave up on the greater good.

[01:03:29] Like.

[01:03:29] He gave up on his racism and he's like okay muggles are fine I guess.

[01:03:34] But on the greater good he definitely did not give that up.

[01:03:38] He never gave up on that.

[01:03:38] No.

[01:03:39] Which is like wild.

[01:03:40] Yeah.

[01:03:41] And like okay greater good sounds good but when you look at the way that he's going to

[01:03:45] execute that it's completely messed up.

[01:03:47] Okay.

[01:03:47] I'll say this and I think that I think it was reawakened in him when the whole Harry situation

[01:03:53] happened.

[01:03:53] The greater good thing.

[01:03:54] I think for a portion of his life he probably tried to rid himself of that which is why he

[01:04:00] became headmaster rather than minister of magic.

[01:04:03] Like he didn't seek power.

[01:04:04] He didn't want power because he knew he was dangerous around power.

[01:04:06] But when Harry came back into the equation he had to rethink what the greater good really

[01:04:10] was and he had to come to grips with the fact that that is really the way he has to

[01:04:13] go.

[01:04:14] Otherwise Voldemort's going to take over and there's going to be hell is going to be unleashed.

[01:04:18] You know what's interesting too is like Dumbledore's kind of rendered powerless with the

[01:04:22] Horcruxes too because it all is in Harry's hands.

[01:04:25] Yeah exactly.

[01:04:26] So like he was probably in agony like letting Harry do all this and letting him slowly figure

[01:04:30] it out.

[01:04:31] Like crossing his fingers that Hermione's going to help him.

[01:04:34] That's so good.

[01:04:34] Because he's like probably going insane being like I know where this is.

[01:04:38] I know how to do this.

[01:04:39] And this little kid is like our ticket to freedom and he's not going to be able to.

[01:04:44] Like you know what I'm saying?

[01:04:45] Yeah.

[01:04:45] Yeah.

[01:04:46] That's crazy.

[01:04:47] That is nuts.

[01:04:48] That's pretty wild.

[01:04:56] These are such fun chapters to discuss.

[01:04:59] I know.

[01:04:59] It makes it so much better to discuss it because like I understand it and I like obviously

[01:05:03] I got the significance of the book and the story but then like this is like.

[01:05:07] Yeah.

[01:05:08] This makes it look several.

[01:05:09] That's great.

[01:05:09] And there's so many good lines in this chapter too.

[01:05:12] And one of my faves.

[01:05:15] One of my favorites dies in this chapter.

[01:05:18] Who died?

[01:05:19] Colin?

[01:05:20] Yeah.

[01:05:20] Harry glanced down and felt another dull blow to his stomach.

[01:05:23] Colin Creevey.

[01:05:25] Though underage.

[01:05:26] Must have sneaked back in as just as Malfoy Crabbe and Goyle had done.

[01:05:30] He was tiny in death.

[01:05:32] I know that hurts so bad.

[01:05:34] Oh Colin!

[01:05:36] He was tiny in death.

[01:05:38] Oh he's so so sad.

[01:05:41] And he says this is I think a lot of people point this out but people say that this is

[01:05:47] her best written chapter.

[01:05:50] I think she's written some other chapters equally to this.

[01:05:55] I still kind of think the Mirror of Arisa chapter is her best written chapter.

[01:06:00] But some of these lines in this just kind of like put you in the Harry's headspace where it says

[01:06:05] he felt he would have given all the remaining time for him to look or for just one last look at them.

[01:06:11] But then would he ever have the strength to stop looking?

[01:06:15] It was better like this.

[01:06:18] And then when he's in the forest the long game was ended.

[01:06:22] The snitch had been caught.

[01:06:23] It was time to leave the air.

[01:06:24] The snitch.

[01:06:26] His nerveless fingers fumbled for a moment with a pouch at his neck.

[01:06:30] And he pulled it out.

[01:06:31] I opened it to close.

[01:06:32] Breathing fast and hard he stared down at it.

[01:06:34] Now that he wanted time to move as slowly as possible it seemed to have sped up.

[01:06:39] And understanding was coming so fast it seemed to have bypassed thought.

[01:06:42] This was the close.

[01:06:44] This was the moment.

[01:06:45] He pressed the golden metal to his lips and whispered I am about to die.

[01:06:49] The metal shell broke open.

[01:06:51] He lowered his shaking hand.

[01:06:52] Raised Draco's wand beneath the cloak and murmured Lumos.

[01:06:56] The black stone with its jagged crack running down the center sat in two halves of the snitch.

[01:07:00] The resurrection stone had cracked down the vertical line representing the elder wand.

[01:07:04] The triangle and circle representing the cloak.

[01:07:06] And the stone were still discernible.

[01:07:11] Was that a surprise to you?

[01:07:13] I don't know if anybody's going to believe me because I don't think I said it on the podcast.

[01:07:18] I did guess that at some point that the stone was going to be in the snitch.

[01:07:22] And I don't know if I ever said it on the podcast.

[01:07:24] I think you did.

[01:07:25] But like even if I said it on the podcast I feel like it wouldn't have been as definitive

[01:07:29] as like I didn't I'm not saying I guessed it like five chapters in advance but like it hit

[01:07:34] me at some point I was like oh the snitch is gonna have the stone in it.

[01:07:38] But then I didn't know you could still use the stone because I thought it was like broken.

[01:07:41] Yeah it seems strange that he can still use it.

[01:07:43] But I guess it's just such a powerfully magical object that it can't really break like that.

[01:07:47] But he can still use it to some extent.

[01:07:48] Does the stone have the Deathly Hallows thing on it?

[01:07:53] It seems like it yeah.

[01:07:54] Because that took me so long to understand.

[01:07:56] I was like it broke along the wand.

[01:07:57] Yeah.

[01:07:58] Like we're looking at a stone here.

[01:07:59] Like what's going on?

[01:08:01] Yeah it seems like it.

[01:08:01] So it has like the little imprint of it.

[01:08:03] I'm guessing yeah.

[01:08:04] I don't know.

[01:08:06] But yeah and then Harry just like knows again.

[01:08:09] It's just like in his body like this is what I need to do.

[01:08:12] What does he say to the snitch?

[01:08:13] He's like I must die.

[01:08:15] What does he say?

[01:08:16] Something like that.

[01:08:16] I'm ready to die I think.

[01:08:18] I am about to die.

[01:08:20] That's crazy.

[01:08:22] That makes Harry one of the most remarkable characters.

[01:08:27] Because he walks into this forest willingly knowing he's gonna die and knowing he's gonna

[01:08:31] sacrifice his life.

[01:08:32] That's why it's such like a it's like a funeral procession.

[01:08:35] And it's such a devastating chapter for everything that he's going through and everything that

[01:08:38] he's like doing and how he's willingly sacrificing his life.

[01:08:42] It's not because of what anybody else has told him to do.

[01:08:44] He's going into this forest.

[01:08:47] It's hard for him to do this but he's going in because he knows what he must do.

[01:08:53] He's the best.

[01:08:54] I love Harry.

[01:08:54] I love him so much.

[01:08:56] The courage that this has to take.

[01:08:58] And he doesn't know how it's all gonna work out either.

[01:09:01] Like I thought the snake was gonna die first.

[01:09:04] Mm-hmm.

[01:09:07] But that didn't even occur to me that like Harry didn't have to be the last Horcrux.

[01:09:11] Mm-hmm.

[01:09:11] And he like told Neville he's like go you have to kill the snake.

[01:09:14] And then he adds like another person to the trio and he's like look there's always three

[01:09:18] of us there has to be one more.

[01:09:19] And then the fact that Neville actually goes and does it in like the most.

[01:09:22] Yep.

[01:09:23] Oh amazing moment.

[01:09:25] I know.

[01:09:25] Agreed.

[01:09:26] But yeah.

[01:09:28] But that's a lot of maturity.

[01:09:30] I know.

[01:09:31] Like that goes against like every human physiological psychological thing like hardwired into you to

[01:09:38] survive is like just walking up to death.

[01:09:41] Yep.

[01:09:42] It's like insane.

[01:09:44] I know it is.

[01:09:45] And he doesn't know necessarily what's gonna like he doesn't know that there's hope or

[01:09:49] that there's like life after being a Horcrux you know like he just thinks he's actually

[01:09:53] gonna die.

[01:09:53] Yeah.

[01:09:54] And he's willing to do that for the greater good because Harry actually loves people.

[01:09:59] Yes.

[01:10:00] Dude.

[01:10:00] Like there's so many people that he actually loves.

[01:10:03] Everybody in the castle.

[01:10:04] Yep.

[01:10:05] He loves so much that he's willing to die for them.

[01:10:07] Yeah.

[01:10:08] And he's like he already has that burden too of like Fred died.

[01:10:13] Tongson, Boopin died.

[01:10:14] Like he's already thinking about that in like the hour or half an hour that he's been out

[01:10:19] here.

[01:10:19] It's like that burden is already starting to weigh on him.

[01:10:23] But then he's like this is how I like can actually like make things right.

[01:10:26] So I can love people.

[01:10:28] Boom.

[01:10:29] And it's not like the one of the best parts about this too is like Harry is not going into

[01:10:33] this naively but to some extent he is going into it naively.

[01:10:36] He's not playing chess.

[01:10:37] He's not like these people that have died.

[01:10:40] He's not like moving chess pieces so that he they could sacrifice himself so he could die

[01:10:44] at this right time.

[01:10:45] Like Dumbledore was doing that with certain people.

[01:10:47] But Harry doesn't have this realization.

[01:10:48] Then when he does have the realization that he needs to be the one that dies like he was

[01:10:52] trying to fight for people tooth and tooth and nail with everything in him.

[01:10:55] And when he realizes he has to die in order to keep these people safe.

[01:10:59] He willingly goes into it.

[01:11:01] And it is a remarkable thing that he's able to do that.

[01:11:05] I love him.

[01:11:06] He's the best.

[01:11:07] I love you Harry.

[01:11:09] Says and again without understanding without having to think it did not matter about bringing

[01:11:12] them back for he was about to join them.

[01:11:17] He was not really fetching them.

[01:11:19] They were fetching him.

[01:11:22] So he brings them back and it says Lily's smile was widest of all.

[01:11:26] She pushed her long hair back as she drew close to him and her green eyes so like his

[01:11:32] searched his face hungrily as though she would never be able to look at him enough.

[01:11:37] You've been so brave.

[01:11:40] He could not cry.

[01:11:42] His eyes feasted on her.

[01:11:44] Heart is so sad.

[01:11:45] And he thought that he would like to stand and look at her forever.

[01:11:49] And that would be enough.

[01:11:52] It's so good.

[01:11:54] Oh my gosh.

[01:11:54] I'm crying.

[01:11:55] That was the part that like sent me over the edge was like he just want like his friends

[01:12:01] have already died for him.

[01:12:02] But then like his actual like real like family people to him.

[01:12:09] Sirius, his dad, his mom.

[01:12:10] It's like those are the people that like he really wants with him and he needs them.

[01:12:15] And then they were like defending him.

[01:12:17] I know.

[01:12:18] And he's like he just wanted company with him.

[01:12:20] They acted like Patronuses to him.

[01:12:22] Yeah.

[01:12:23] And together they marched to the old trees.

[01:12:26] It's so it's such excellent freaking writing.

[01:12:31] This section that they're with him till the end.

[01:12:35] And then Lupin is like talks about leaving Teddy too.

[01:12:39] I know.

[01:12:40] He's like he's never going to understand.

[01:12:42] I know.

[01:12:42] Over here.

[01:12:44] Does it hurt?

[01:12:45] The childish question had fallen from Harry's lips before he could stop it.

[01:12:49] Dying?

[01:12:50] Not at all.

[01:12:51] Said Sirius.

[01:12:52] Quicker and easier than falling asleep.

[01:12:55] I was like bro.

[01:12:57] I can't.

[01:12:58] I am broken.

[01:12:59] I was dead.

[01:13:00] Yeah.

[01:13:04] You're just.

[01:13:05] Yeah.

[01:13:05] I feel like I just went to a funeral.

[01:13:07] Like.

[01:13:07] Yep.

[01:13:07] I feel like this whole chapter is a funeral march.

[01:13:10] It literally is.

[01:13:12] And there's people like coming back though.

[01:13:15] I know.

[01:13:16] I thought they were going to stay with him the entire time but they can't.

[01:13:20] Yeah.

[01:13:20] They couldn't.

[01:13:21] Yeah.

[01:13:21] And he doesn't even go get the stone.

[01:13:22] He just leaves it there.

[01:13:24] Yeah.

[01:13:24] Which is scary to me because I'm like somebody else is going to find that eventually.

[01:13:28] If it has a mark on it.

[01:13:29] Yeah.

[01:13:29] Someone might find that eventually.

[01:13:31] It's dangerous.

[01:13:33] It is dangerous.

[01:13:34] In the movie.

[01:13:37] He drops that.

[01:13:38] But in the movie.

[01:13:39] Actually I'm not going to tell you.

[01:13:41] Oh no.

[01:13:42] It's a little.

[01:13:43] The ending is a little different from the movie.

[01:13:45] Okay.

[01:13:45] So saying that.

[01:13:46] To like chuck it.

[01:13:48] Yeah.

[01:13:49] Buries it.

[01:13:50] Gives it to the great giant squid.

[01:13:54] He should like bury it in Dumbledore's grave.

[01:13:56] Instead of the Elder Wand.

[01:13:58] Hmm.

[01:13:58] Hmm.

[01:13:59] That's interesting actually.

[01:14:03] Because the Elder Wand once Harry dies is.

[01:14:08] Powerless.

[01:14:11] That's another thing right?

[01:14:13] That's true right?

[01:14:14] Harry has the Elder Wand and then it's going to die and be powerless.

[01:14:18] That's what happens.

[01:14:20] Yep.

[01:14:21] So that's like.

[01:14:21] I'll talk about that because that is highly risky.

[01:14:24] But that is like one thing that's like another.

[01:14:29] Like.

[01:14:30] You have the foresight to look.

[01:14:33] Until your death.

[01:14:34] Yeah.

[01:14:34] Be like this is another thing.

[01:14:36] That's going to end with me.

[01:14:38] Yeah.

[01:14:38] That's going to be like better.

[01:14:39] But then he also has the cloak that like he can pass down to the generations.

[01:14:43] Yep.

[01:14:44] And he names his babies after everybody.

[01:14:47] We'll get there.

[01:14:47] We'll get there.

[01:14:48] We'll get there.

[01:14:50] Okay.

[01:14:53] Yeah.

[01:14:53] Harry.

[01:14:57] Harry dying in this moment is like an incredible thing.

[01:15:00] Voldemort says I thought he would come.

[01:15:02] In his high clear voice.

[01:15:03] His eyes on the leaping flames.

[01:15:05] I expected of the come.

[01:15:06] Nobody spoke.

[01:15:07] They seemed as scared as Harry.

[01:15:09] Whose heart was now throwing itself against his ribs.

[01:15:11] As though determined to escape his body.

[01:15:12] He was about to cast aside.

[01:15:14] His hands were sweating as he pulled off the invisibility cloak.

[01:15:17] And it stuffed it beneath his robes.

[01:15:19] With his wand.

[01:15:20] He did not want to be tempted to fight.

[01:15:23] I was.

[01:15:23] It seems mistaken.

[01:15:25] Said Voldemort.

[01:15:26] You weren't.

[01:15:28] Harry said it loudly.

[01:15:29] As loudly as he could.

[01:15:31] With all the force he could muster.

[01:15:32] He did not want to sound afraid.

[01:15:34] The resurrection stone slipped between his thumb.

[01:15:37] Between his numb fingers.

[01:15:39] Out of the corner of his eyes.

[01:15:40] He saw his parents.

[01:15:41] Seriously loop and vanish.

[01:15:43] As he stepped forward into the firelight.

[01:15:45] At that moment.

[01:15:45] He thought that nobody mattered.

[01:15:47] But Voldemort.

[01:15:48] It was just the two of them.

[01:15:53] Ah.

[01:15:53] The ending of this chapter is just tough.

[01:15:55] It's good.

[01:15:55] It's so good.

[01:15:57] So let's go on to the next one.

[01:15:58] Anything else in this one?

[01:16:00] Just keep going.

[01:16:01] All right.

[01:16:01] King's Cross.

[01:16:03] So he sees Dumbledore in this little vision.

[01:16:06] And King's Cross.

[01:16:06] A clean King's Cross.

[01:16:07] Which is.

[01:16:08] You kind of remember this section a little bit.

[01:16:09] Why is that King's Cross?

[01:16:11] Like you just are like.

[01:16:12] In no man's land before death.

[01:16:14] I guess this.

[01:16:15] This is kind of the place that ushered Harry into the magical world.

[01:16:17] I guess it's kind of ushering him.

[01:16:20] To death.

[01:16:21] Or back to the magical world.

[01:16:23] Because that's what Dumbledore says at the end.

[01:16:25] He's like.

[01:16:26] Yeah.

[01:16:26] Well you can just like go.

[01:16:27] Yeah.

[01:16:28] You can go on.

[01:16:29] And he chooses not to.

[01:16:30] Yeah.

[01:16:31] He chooses not to.

[01:16:31] Which is crazy.

[01:16:33] Were you shocked that it was Dumbledore in this section?

[01:16:34] You remembered that right?

[01:16:36] Yeah.

[01:16:36] I knew it was Dumbledore.

[01:16:37] Yeah.

[01:16:37] And Harry.

[01:16:39] I was shocked that there was no animosity here.

[01:16:42] Like it was very civil conversation.

[01:16:45] Yeah.

[01:16:46] Dumbledore was laughing.

[01:16:47] Dumbledore was crying.

[01:16:49] Harry was like finally asking direct questions to Dumbledore.

[01:16:52] Which he's like never done.

[01:16:54] And then obviously Dumbledore's answering him.

[01:16:57] It was like a change of pace for them.

[01:17:00] Yeah.

[01:17:00] Right?

[01:17:01] Because like.

[01:17:01] I forget what Harry said.

[01:17:02] But there's one part where he's like.

[01:17:04] Tell me.

[01:17:04] Or like.

[01:17:05] Just like.

[01:17:05] Something like that.

[01:17:06] And then Dumbledore goes on like this whole paragraph thing.

[01:17:09] Of just.

[01:17:09] Telling him the information.

[01:17:10] Finally he tells him all the information.

[01:17:13] Like he probably could have used this.

[01:17:14] Yeah.

[01:17:14] Probably could have used this a few months ago.

[01:17:16] A few years ago.

[01:17:16] You're dead.

[01:17:17] So that was not ideal.

[01:17:19] But.

[01:17:20] Yeah.

[01:17:20] Okay.

[01:17:23] Okay.

[01:17:26] So this is.

[01:17:27] This is another one of the lines.

[01:17:29] But.

[01:17:30] Harry raises his hand instinctively toward Lightning Scarry.

[01:17:32] It did not seem to be there.

[01:17:34] I should have died.

[01:17:36] I didn't defend myself.

[01:17:37] I meant to let him kill me.

[01:17:39] And that said Dumbledore.

[01:17:41] Well I think.

[01:17:42] Made about.

[01:17:42] Have made all the difference.

[01:17:50] And then it says.

[01:17:52] Okay.

[01:17:52] So actually.

[01:17:53] Real quick.

[01:17:54] Why is that going to make all the difference?

[01:17:57] Like the willingness to die.

[01:18:00] Yeah.

[01:18:02] I don't know how to explain it.

[01:18:04] I think it's like his.

[01:18:04] I know.

[01:18:04] I think you're.

[01:18:05] Yeah.

[01:18:05] I think it's like his willing sacrifice.

[01:18:08] Which I mean you get.

[01:18:09] Kind of in the next chapter.

[01:18:10] That he willingly sacrificed himself.

[01:18:11] Which is why.

[01:18:12] You know.

[01:18:12] Voldemort can't touch anybody in there.

[01:18:14] But.

[01:18:16] Yeah.

[01:18:16] His willingness to go before this.

[01:18:18] And die for his friends.

[01:18:19] Die for his people that he loves.

[01:18:21] Made all the difference.

[01:18:23] It also says.

[01:18:25] But.

[01:18:25] Harry raised his hand instinctively.

[01:18:27] Toward his lightning scar.

[01:18:28] Oh no wait.

[01:18:29] I just read that.

[01:18:30] Um.

[01:18:33] Harry says.

[01:18:34] He took my blood.

[01:18:34] Said Harry.

[01:18:36] Precisely.

[01:18:36] Said Dumbledore.

[01:18:38] He took your blood.

[01:18:39] And rebuilt his living body with it.

[01:18:41] Your blood in his veins Harry.

[01:18:43] Lily's protection inside both of you.

[01:18:45] He tethered you to life while he lives.

[01:18:48] Do you get that?

[01:18:49] That's why he's the Horcrux.

[01:18:51] That's why he's the Lovecrux.

[01:18:52] Not the Horcrux.

[01:18:54] The Lovecrux.

[01:18:55] The Lovecrux.

[01:18:58] That's insane.

[01:19:02] Yeah.

[01:19:03] I have nothing to say.

[01:19:04] Like.

[01:19:05] Yeah.

[01:19:05] This is just like.

[01:19:06] Read every single line in this chapter.

[01:19:08] And be like.

[01:19:09] Yes.

[01:19:09] Wow.

[01:19:10] Amazing.

[01:19:11] We just keep saying amen after a while.

[01:19:12] This is like the grand reveal of everything.

[01:19:14] Although.

[01:19:14] There's some good parts in this chapter.

[01:19:16] That we don't quite know yet.

[01:19:17] That Harry reveals in the next chapter.

[01:19:19] Which is like.

[01:19:20] You know.

[01:19:20] Even though the wand of Draco.

[01:19:22] Harry's the real owner of the Elder Wand.

[01:19:25] Dumbledore just gives his background here a little bit.

[01:19:27] I.

[01:19:28] Tried to pause.

[01:19:30] And like.

[01:19:32] Like.

[01:19:32] Try to understand it from a point of view.

[01:19:35] Where like.

[01:19:36] The whole Harry being a Horcrux thing.

[01:19:38] Is like just dawning on you.

[01:19:39] Because.

[01:19:40] I.

[01:19:40] Yeah.

[01:19:41] I get Harry's a Horcrux.

[01:19:42] I knew that.

[01:19:42] And I remember that like.

[01:19:44] They meet up again.

[01:19:45] And like this white thing.

[01:19:46] And they.

[01:19:47] They talk.

[01:19:47] So like.

[01:19:48] That obviously changes my perception as I read it.

[01:19:51] Because those are like.

[01:19:53] Very important.

[01:19:54] Things to remember as your second time reading.

[01:19:56] It's like.

[01:19:57] Why was that the thing to remember?

[01:19:59] I don't know.

[01:19:59] It couldn't have been something silly.

[01:20:01] But.

[01:20:03] I was like.

[01:20:04] If you're reading this for like the first time.

[01:20:06] With no.

[01:20:07] Understanding that Harry's a Horcrux.

[01:20:08] I'd be like.

[01:20:09] This would really like.

[01:20:10] Rock your world.

[01:20:11] I feel like.

[01:20:12] Yeah.

[01:20:13] So.

[01:20:13] Even that.

[01:20:14] It's like.

[01:20:14] I can't.

[01:20:16] I'm like.

[01:20:17] I don't know.

[01:20:18] I can't even say.

[01:20:19] I'm like.

[01:20:19] So.

[01:20:20] Into this.

[01:20:21] Even like.

[01:20:22] Having known.

[01:20:24] What I did.

[01:20:25] And just like.

[01:20:25] Trying to figure it out.

[01:20:26] And like.

[01:20:26] Understand the depth of like.

[01:20:28] What's actually happening.

[01:20:29] What's this connection.

[01:20:31] It's pretty insane.

[01:20:32] Yeah.

[01:20:32] Seriously.

[01:20:33] There's a lot of stuff in this chapter about that.

[01:20:35] I like this quote.

[01:20:36] That Dumbledore says.

[01:20:38] And his knowledge remained woefully incomplete.

[01:20:41] Harry.

[01:20:41] That which Voldemort does not value.

[01:20:43] He takes no trouble to comprehend.

[01:20:46] Of house elves and children's tales.

[01:20:49] Of love.

[01:20:49] Loyalty.

[01:20:50] And innocence.

[01:20:52] Voldemort knows.

[01:20:53] And understands nothing.

[01:20:55] Nothing.

[01:20:56] Mm.

[01:20:57] That they all have power beyond his own.

[01:20:59] A power beyond the reach of any magic.

[01:21:01] Is a truth.

[01:21:02] He has never grasped.

[01:21:04] Mm.

[01:21:05] That's a good line.

[01:21:06] See.

[01:21:07] I have nothing to say to that.

[01:21:09] It's just so good.

[01:21:10] Yeah.

[01:21:11] Dumbledore does spit out some bars here in this one too.

[01:21:14] Ugh.

[01:21:18] What do you think about.

[01:21:22] Dumbledore's.

[01:21:24] Like backstory in this.

[01:21:26] Like his confession in this chapter.

[01:21:28] With his family.

[01:21:29] With like his.

[01:21:31] His fear of power.

[01:21:32] With like his.

[01:21:33] Does he like not align with what his brother was saying?

[01:21:36] Isn't that like.

[01:21:37] It kind of does.

[01:21:39] He's just more as like Dumbledore is here.

[01:21:41] Is like making the confession for it.

[01:21:44] So like.

[01:21:45] Okay.

[01:21:45] Now I'm not necessarily asking you.

[01:21:47] What about.

[01:21:47] What do you think about the story?

[01:21:48] I'm thinking.

[01:21:48] I'm like.

[01:21:48] What do you think about Dumbledore here.

[01:21:50] Confessing his issues.

[01:21:51] And his errors to Harry.

[01:21:53] I thought the like.

[01:21:54] Power thing was.

[01:21:55] Probably the most interesting.

[01:21:57] Part of that.

[01:21:58] Okay.

[01:21:58] Where he doesn't trust himself with power.

[01:22:00] But then.

[01:22:01] I'm like.

[01:22:02] You're in.

[01:22:03] An extremely powerful situation.

[01:22:04] Yeah.

[01:22:05] Like your job.

[01:22:08] So.

[01:22:09] Okay.

[01:22:09] I didn't completely understand that.

[01:22:11] Here's.

[01:22:11] Here's another side question I want to ask you.

[01:22:13] That's like.

[01:22:14] Goes off of that.

[01:22:15] And there's probably more checks and balances if you work in the ministry.

[01:22:18] Yeah.

[01:22:18] Rather than at Hogwarts.

[01:22:19] Agreed.

[01:22:20] So.

[01:22:20] Kind of agree on that.

[01:22:23] Proceed.

[01:22:25] Dumbledore asks a question at the very end of this chapter.

[01:22:28] That.

[01:22:28] I mean.

[01:22:29] We won't.

[01:22:29] But we'll.

[01:22:29] We're not going to skip over all the other stuff.

[01:22:31] But he says.

[01:22:32] Or Harry says.

[01:22:33] Is this real?

[01:22:34] Or is this happening all in my head?

[01:22:36] Dumbledore says.

[01:22:36] Of course this is happening all in your head.

[01:22:38] Well.

[01:22:39] Why does that make.

[01:22:39] Why does that mean that it can't be real?

[01:22:43] Is.

[01:22:45] Is.

[01:22:47] Dumbledore there presently at the moment.

[01:22:49] Is this really just something that's happening in Harry's head when he's figuring everything out?

[01:22:52] Or is this like a real place that they go to?

[01:22:56] Is this like.

[01:22:57] Purgatory or limbo or someplace like that.

[01:22:59] Where they're stuck.

[01:23:00] And he's actually having a conversation with Dumbledore.

[01:23:02] Like an actual conversation with him.

[01:23:04] Or.

[01:23:04] Is everything here just something that Harry is piecing together in his mind?

[01:23:09] That is spooky.

[01:23:09] Because what new information have we got in this chapter?

[01:23:14] Like not much.

[01:23:15] Big goose egg.

[01:23:17] It's Harry just coming to the realization.

[01:23:19] Of everything on his own.

[01:23:22] Yeah.

[01:23:22] Of.

[01:23:24] Wow.

[01:23:25] So.

[01:23:29] Psychosis.

[01:23:32] A little like.

[01:23:33] A little bit.

[01:23:33] What is that?

[01:23:34] When people see people.

[01:23:36] Yeah.

[01:23:36] It's a psychotic break.

[01:23:38] But this is a different version of psychotic break.

[01:23:40] Schizophrenia.

[01:23:41] Yeah.

[01:23:41] Schizophrenia.

[01:23:42] Yeah.

[01:23:42] That's actually crazy.

[01:23:43] I did not think about it like that.

[01:23:45] If it's real or not.

[01:23:47] Because again.

[01:23:48] I mean like.

[01:23:49] Most people like the idea that it's real.

[01:23:51] Because it just gives it.

[01:23:52] It gives it a bit more substance.

[01:23:53] And I kind of think.

[01:23:54] I probably think that it's real.

[01:23:55] It makes no sense that he's there.

[01:23:56] Yeah.

[01:23:57] Logically it doesn't make any sense.

[01:23:58] Because he would just.

[01:23:59] He's like in a.

[01:24:01] Passed out type of state right now.

[01:24:03] What is this like baby under the chair?

[01:24:05] Is that Voldemort?

[01:24:06] It's Voldemort.

[01:24:07] Yeah.

[01:24:07] That's the little.

[01:24:08] That's the Horcrux.

[01:24:09] That's the Horcrux inside Harry.

[01:24:10] That's insane.

[01:24:11] Yeah.

[01:24:11] That's why he says like.

[01:24:13] Voldemort wouldn't want to go back.

[01:24:14] To where you came from.

[01:24:15] Yeah.

[01:24:16] It's because like.

[01:24:16] His experience there was so bad.

[01:24:18] While Harry was having like.

[01:24:19] Such a great experience with Dumbledore there.

[01:24:22] Yikes.

[01:24:23] Yep.

[01:24:25] So it's interesting.

[01:24:25] What does he say?

[01:24:26] I highlighted that.

[01:24:27] Where it was like.

[01:24:29] He would not have.

[01:24:31] Like such.

[01:24:32] Like come back here willingly.

[01:24:35] You gotta find that.

[01:24:36] I forget.

[01:24:38] I have it somewhere too.

[01:24:39] But I have too many notes on this chapter.

[01:24:42] I think.

[01:24:43] Said Dumbledore.

[01:24:45] That if you choose to return there.

[01:24:47] Is a chance that he.

[01:24:48] May be finished for good.

[01:24:50] I cannot promise it.

[01:24:51] But I know this Harry.

[01:24:52] That you have less to fear.

[01:24:54] From returning here.

[01:24:55] Than he does.

[01:24:57] Is that talking about.

[01:24:58] Voldemort being like.

[01:24:59] The little baby thing.

[01:25:00] And like.

[01:25:01] Essentially.

[01:25:01] Having a terrible experience.

[01:25:03] It could just.

[01:25:04] It could be that.

[01:25:05] It could be like him answering.

[01:25:06] For his sins.

[01:25:07] And his errors.

[01:25:08] I don't know.

[01:25:08] There's.

[01:25:09] That's an interpretive line.

[01:25:10] That's like a.

[01:25:10] A trickier one.

[01:25:11] I think your interpretation.

[01:25:12] Is a pretty good one.

[01:25:13] Because then Harry's like.

[01:25:14] Oh this is like.

[01:25:15] A great experience.

[01:25:16] Being here.

[01:25:17] You know.

[01:25:17] Like I literally.

[01:25:18] Don't even have my scar.

[01:25:19] I'm talking to Dumbledore.

[01:25:22] Um.

[01:25:24] I would like to think.

[01:25:25] That Dumbledore.

[01:25:26] Is actually there with him.

[01:25:27] But.

[01:25:28] Yeah.

[01:25:29] That doesn't really make sense.

[01:25:31] Agreed.

[01:25:32] It's such a fascinating one.

[01:25:33] Because in my head.

[01:25:34] I want to think the same thing.

[01:25:35] Because he died a while ago.

[01:25:36] Yeah.

[01:25:37] But.

[01:25:37] Especially in this chapter.

[01:25:39] Unless he like never just got on the train.

[01:25:40] Yeah.

[01:25:41] Yeah.

[01:25:41] Maybe that's what ghosts do.

[01:25:42] They miss their train.

[01:25:44] That's how you become a ghost.

[01:25:45] I think it got a place to be.

[01:25:46] I kind of like that actually.

[01:25:48] Yeah.

[01:25:48] Is this like how you become a ghost?

[01:25:50] It's actually kind of a fascinating discussion.

[01:25:52] But.

[01:25:52] For this chapter.

[01:25:53] Harry doesn't learn any new bits of information.

[01:25:55] He just pieces things together himself.

[01:25:57] And the prior chapter of Harry coming to all these discoveries.

[01:26:00] Kind of leads you to the belief that.

[01:26:02] Harry probably just was.

[01:26:04] On the ground of the forest.

[01:26:06] And all these discoveries.

[01:26:08] All the neurons really like connected all at once.

[01:26:10] And he's like having a fake conversation with Dumbledore.

[01:26:13] It's all happening in his head.

[01:26:14] But.

[01:26:17] It's like.

[01:26:19] All the answers are coming together.

[01:26:20] I love that so much.

[01:26:22] Right.

[01:26:22] That's.

[01:26:23] Like I feel like that would happen too.

[01:26:25] Like.

[01:26:25] Yeah.

[01:26:25] When you just are laying.

[01:26:26] In bed.

[01:26:27] It's almost like an out of body experience.

[01:26:28] And he's completely exhausted.

[01:26:30] Mm-hmm.

[01:26:31] Everything is like so raw.

[01:26:33] And then.

[01:26:33] That would just like make sense for all the pieces to fall into place for him.

[01:26:39] Yeah.

[01:26:39] Wow.

[01:26:40] And then.

[01:26:40] We're left.

[01:26:41] Really.

[01:26:42] If it's not Dumbledore here.

[01:26:44] We're left on a note hating him.

[01:26:46] Yeah.

[01:26:47] The last reality that Dumbledore like lived.

[01:26:50] Yeah.

[01:26:50] Is me hating him.

[01:26:52] Yeah.

[01:26:53] And you know what else I hate about that line?

[01:26:55] And.

[01:26:56] Where it's like.

[01:26:57] Why.

[01:26:57] If it's just in your head.

[01:26:58] Is it not real?

[01:26:58] I like to think that everything that's going on in my head is not real.

[01:27:02] You know.

[01:27:03] Sometimes I'll like write stuff.

[01:27:04] And I'll revisit it.

[01:27:05] And I'm like.

[01:27:06] Wow.

[01:27:06] Like.

[01:27:07] That.

[01:27:07] You're so wrong Lizzie.

[01:27:08] Like.

[01:27:09] Why would you think that?

[01:27:10] You know.

[01:27:10] You just get up in your head.

[01:27:11] Everyone has that though.

[01:27:12] But then like people idolize that line.

[01:27:14] And they're like.

[01:27:14] Oh.

[01:27:15] That's so nice.

[01:27:16] It is a great line.

[01:27:17] But.

[01:27:18] I do not want everything in my head to be real.

[01:27:20] Are you kidding me?

[01:27:21] I mean.

[01:27:21] Nothing in your head is real.

[01:27:23] That's not true.

[01:27:26] Cogito erio assume.

[01:27:27] What?

[01:27:28] I think therefore I am.

[01:27:30] Our thoughts are the things that make us reality.

[01:27:32] But.

[01:27:33] You're.

[01:27:33] You even talk about this with the idea of pain.

[01:27:36] Is pain real?

[01:27:37] No.

[01:27:38] Just something in your head.

[01:27:39] Pain is just programmed that like.

[01:27:43] It should be uncomfortable.

[01:27:44] The matrix.

[01:27:45] We're in the matrix right now.

[01:27:46] I just think that about being cold.

[01:27:48] Like when I step outside in winter.

[01:27:50] I'm like.

[01:27:50] Like I have a moment of like.

[01:27:52] And then I just.

[01:27:53] I'm all tense.

[01:27:54] And then I.

[01:27:55] Literally this happens to me every single day of winter.

[01:27:57] Or when it's cold.

[01:27:58] And I just go.

[01:27:59] No.

[01:28:00] You just think that being cold is uncomfortable.

[01:28:03] And then I just like.

[01:28:04] Force myself to relax.

[01:28:05] And I'm like.

[01:28:06] Being cold is not uncomfortable.

[01:28:07] You're just like taught that.

[01:28:09] It should be.

[01:28:09] We have two very different reactions to that.

[01:28:11] No.

[01:28:11] Because I have a gag reflex when I go outside in the cold.

[01:28:14] And I almost throw up when I go outside in the cold.

[01:28:15] Yeah.

[01:28:16] It's weird.

[01:28:16] I hate about winter though.

[01:28:18] I can't even breathe in peace.

[01:28:19] Because my teeth are sensitive.

[01:28:21] So I'll breathe.

[01:28:22] Really?

[01:28:22] I hate that.

[01:28:23] It's like the worst.

[01:28:24] I can't drink anything cold.

[01:28:25] Yes.

[01:28:25] My teeth are so sensitive.

[01:28:26] And then you step outside.

[01:28:27] And you like have one of those like.

[01:28:29] Moments.

[01:28:29] And then your teeth start killing you.

[01:28:31] It's like.

[01:28:31] Come on.

[01:28:32] We're the same.

[01:28:38] We'll start another podcast.

[01:28:39] A sensitive teeth podcast.

[01:28:41] I don't know what that's going to be about.

[01:28:43] But.

[01:28:43] It'll be a single episode.

[01:28:45] That was it.

[01:28:46] That was actually the episode.

[01:28:47] We have sensitive teeth.

[01:28:48] That's all we have to say.

[01:28:49] Thank you.

[01:28:49] That's all we got to say about that.

[01:28:51] Yeah.

[01:28:51] And yet I still white in them.

[01:28:54] Take them down to nothing.

[01:28:56] Yeah.

[01:28:56] I'm white.

[01:28:56] Rather have them white than.

[01:28:57] Oh yeah.

[01:28:59] Hardened.

[01:29:02] I don't know.

[01:29:03] Your teeth get hardened.

[01:29:04] They're less sensitive.

[01:29:06] Rather be white.

[01:29:08] Teeth than sensitive teeth.

[01:29:11] Probably rather.

[01:29:12] Yeah.

[01:29:12] I don't know.

[01:29:12] Maybe.

[01:29:12] I probably would rather have white teeth than sensitive teeth.

[01:29:15] I mean that's literally the option that I've chosen.

[01:29:18] So.

[01:29:20] Anyway.

[01:29:21] What are we talking about?

[01:29:22] I don't know.

[01:29:22] We completely lost all track of thought.

[01:29:24] I don't even know how we got there.

[01:29:25] Is any of that real?

[01:29:27] Because it was all in our heads.

[01:29:28] There you go.

[01:29:29] That's how we got there.

[01:29:30] But it's an interesting discussion on that.

[01:29:33] Because again.

[01:29:34] I'm going to adopt that theory that he's not there.

[01:29:36] Yeah.

[01:29:36] It's like psychosis.

[01:29:37] He already knows everything that's happening.

[01:29:39] It wouldn't.

[01:29:39] I don't know if.

[01:29:40] I don't think it would be a psychosis.

[01:29:41] I don't know what that means.

[01:29:42] It could be.

[01:29:42] I just say that.

[01:29:43] It's a big word.

[01:29:45] You know more about that than I do.

[01:29:47] Yeah.

[01:29:49] Not that you have.

[01:29:50] Thanks a lot.

[01:29:50] That's what makes it sound like I was psychosis right now.

[01:29:52] He doesn't have.

[01:29:53] For all you talk about personality disorders guys.

[01:29:55] It's not because that's him.

[01:29:58] He's actually a bipolar.

[01:30:00] Like.

[01:30:00] Yeah.

[01:30:01] Right.

[01:30:01] Serial killer maniac.

[01:30:02] Yeah.

[01:30:04] Don't say that out loud.

[01:30:05] Just reformed yourself.

[01:30:07] A little therapy.

[01:30:08] But yeah.

[01:30:09] Everything that he's learned in this chapter.

[01:30:10] He's talking about Dumbledore and Gritavold.

[01:30:12] He already knows that.

[01:30:13] But he's all making all these connections.

[01:30:15] And Dumbledore doesn't need to be there to make those connections with him.

[01:30:18] It's just a weird way to think about it.

[01:30:19] I like to think that Dumbledore is there helping him along the way.

[01:30:22] Because I like to think that Dumbledore loves him more.

[01:30:24] Yeah.

[01:30:25] I don't know.

[01:30:27] It is confusing.

[01:30:29] Yeah.

[01:30:30] So there's just a bunch of other like random stuff.

[01:30:32] But all this kind of gets revealed in the next chapter.

[01:30:36] Who even was Colin?

[01:30:38] I'm not going to lie.

[01:30:39] I don't remember who Colin was.

[01:30:40] Who what?

[01:30:40] Colin Creavy.

[01:30:42] Colin was the kid that took pictures of him all the time.

[01:30:44] Okay.

[01:30:44] That's what I thought.

[01:30:45] Yeah.

[01:30:47] I mean he already almost died.

[01:30:49] Yeah.

[01:30:49] He was like a little dweeby kid.

[01:30:50] But he's one of those like Dobby.

[01:30:52] Like he's an annoying character.

[01:30:53] And then you're like.

[01:30:53] Like oh he's kind of cute.

[01:30:54] He has like a few good moments in the books.

[01:30:56] Not a ton.

[01:30:57] He's really like a minor character.

[01:30:58] But he's one of those people that like truly.

[01:31:02] Not truly.

[01:31:02] That like really like.

[01:31:03] Like fangirled over Harry.

[01:31:06] Yeah.

[01:31:06] And then like grew into his own.

[01:31:08] On the sidelines.

[01:31:10] And like.

[01:31:11] Ended up choosing to fight for Harry.

[01:31:13] Which is just a really cool thing.

[01:31:16] Yeah.

[01:31:17] Underage right?

[01:31:18] Yeah.

[01:31:20] Died.

[01:31:20] He was tiny in death.

[01:31:22] Oh.

[01:31:23] Mine is so devastating.

[01:31:24] Write that on your gravestone.

[01:31:26] Imagine.

[01:31:26] I know.

[01:31:27] That's how you go out.

[01:31:27] Oh my gosh.

[01:31:29] The last line.

[01:31:30] Oof.

[01:31:30] It's brutal.

[01:31:31] Tiny.

[01:31:33] It's rude.

[01:31:35] But yeah.

[01:31:36] What else you got?

[01:31:38] I've got to go back.

[01:31:39] Haven't I?

[01:31:41] That is up to you.

[01:31:42] I've got a choice.

[01:31:43] Oh yes.

[01:31:45] Dumbledore smiled at him.

[01:31:46] We are in King's Cross.

[01:31:47] You say.

[01:31:48] I think that if you decide not to go back.

[01:31:50] You would be able to.

[01:31:52] Let's say.

[01:31:53] Board a train.

[01:31:54] And where would it take me?

[01:31:57] On.

[01:31:57] Said Dumbledore simply.

[01:31:59] And he says.

[01:32:00] Do not pity the dead.

[01:32:01] Harry.

[01:32:02] Pity the living.

[01:32:03] And above all.

[01:32:05] Those who live without love.

[01:32:07] By returning.

[01:32:08] You may ensure that fewer souls are maimed.

[01:32:10] Fewer families are torn apart.

[01:32:12] If that seems a worthy goal.

[01:32:14] Then we say goodbye for the present.

[01:32:18] So good.

[01:32:19] I don't really like the pity the living line.

[01:32:21] Really?

[01:32:22] Yeah.

[01:32:23] That's a little weird.

[01:32:24] Maybe pity the people who live without love.

[01:32:26] But.

[01:32:28] That's a little strange too.

[01:32:29] Yeah.

[01:32:30] Why don't you like it?

[01:32:32] I don't know.

[01:32:33] I just don't.

[01:32:33] Pity the people.

[01:32:35] What does it say?

[01:32:36] Read that line again.

[01:32:37] That sentence.

[01:32:38] Do not pity the dead Harry.

[01:32:39] Pity the living.

[01:32:40] And above all.

[01:32:40] Pity those who live without love.

[01:32:44] Above all.

[01:32:45] Pity those who live without love.

[01:32:47] I don't know.

[01:32:48] It's the whole crux of this whole series.

[01:32:50] Like you have to live with love.

[01:32:51] That's the only life that's worth living.

[01:32:53] And Harry's living.

[01:32:54] That's his full extent.

[01:32:55] He's living it so deeply.

[01:32:57] That he's sacrificing his life for other people.

[01:32:58] He's an orphan.

[01:33:00] Yeah.

[01:33:00] I know.

[01:33:01] That was another thing that he said.

[01:33:02] It's like.

[01:33:03] Dumbledore.

[01:33:04] Voldemort.

[01:33:04] And him.

[01:33:05] The three like orphans at Hogwarts is their home.

[01:33:08] That's cool.

[01:33:09] Yeah.

[01:33:10] It was.

[01:33:11] Yeah dude.

[01:33:12] And how each of them went on different paths.

[01:33:14] And what they all thought.

[01:33:15] And learned of love.

[01:33:17] It's.

[01:33:17] It's an interesting case study.

[01:33:19] Yeah.

[01:33:19] There is.

[01:33:20] One of my favorite.

[01:33:21] Fan theories.

[01:33:22] Of all time.

[01:33:25] So good.

[01:33:25] Good.

[01:33:26] Is the idea of Dumbledore being death.

[01:33:29] So in the tale of the three brothers.

[01:33:31] Mm-hmm.

[01:33:33] Harry is the brother with the.

[01:33:37] Um.

[01:33:37] Cloak.

[01:33:38] The cloak.

[01:33:39] Snape is the brother with the resurrection stone.

[01:33:41] And Voldemort is the brother with the elder wand.

[01:33:44] And Dumbledore is the one playing death.

[01:33:46] Wait.

[01:33:46] Snape has the stone.

[01:33:48] Not in real life.

[01:33:49] But he's the one who represents the stone in the series.

[01:33:51] Oh.

[01:33:52] Snape represents the stone?

[01:33:54] Dumbledore represents death.

[01:33:56] And Dumbledore is playing at a game to kill all of these people.

[01:34:01] Ooh.

[01:34:02] So he kills Voldemort.

[01:34:04] He kills Snape.

[01:34:06] And then Harry is the true rightful heir.

[01:34:09] Whoa.

[01:34:10] The true owner of the Deathly Hallows.

[01:34:12] It's like a fan.

[01:34:13] It's like a.

[01:34:14] Kind of is just a fan theory.

[01:34:15] And he only goes and gives himself up.

[01:34:16] Yeah.

[01:34:17] He willingly gives himself up.

[01:34:19] It's like a micro.

[01:34:20] Or it's like a macro way to like look at the whole series.

[01:34:23] And Joe has actually talked that.

[01:34:25] That.

[01:34:25] That is her favorite fan theory.

[01:34:28] It's like a really cool thing that fans found.

[01:34:30] Because if she wrote that in mind.

[01:34:32] That's when like you realize how big of a project.

[01:34:35] And like.

[01:34:35] Yeah.

[01:34:35] How much thought went into this.

[01:34:37] Yeah.

[01:34:37] All these little details.

[01:34:39] Yep.

[01:34:39] I don't.

[01:34:39] I think.

[01:34:40] I don't know if she would write.

[01:34:41] I don't know.

[01:34:42] I'm.

[01:34:42] I don't want to doubt her.

[01:34:43] But I don't think she wrote that intentionally.

[01:34:45] Yeah.

[01:34:45] But even if she wrote it unintentionally.

[01:34:47] That's an amazing bit of writing.

[01:34:48] That's like lodged in her brain somewhere.

[01:34:50] And it just came out.

[01:34:51] Like the thematic parts of that story.

[01:34:54] Because unintentional themes are just as important as intentional themes.

[01:34:56] I think.

[01:34:57] And it kind of shows like the continuity of your story.

[01:35:00] And your world building.

[01:35:00] Yeah.

[01:35:01] Agreed.

[01:35:01] That like you can just create other like belief systems within that.

[01:35:05] And like your children's story thing aligns with like your overarching plot theme.

[01:35:10] I know.

[01:35:11] It's so good.

[01:35:11] And it kind of like works too because that whole story half the world thinks it's a children's story.

[01:35:16] Half the world thinks it's real.

[01:35:18] Or maybe less than half think it's real.

[01:35:23] Wow.

[01:35:23] I like that.

[01:35:24] So good.

[01:35:24] You have a lot of good stuff to add to this.

[01:35:27] I know.

[01:35:28] There's so much good Harry Potter stuff out there.

[01:35:31] All right.

[01:35:32] Let's do the last chapter which is the flaw in the plan.

[01:35:34] Until we get to that blog.

[01:35:35] That blog will be short.

[01:35:36] But the flaw in the plan.

[01:35:39] This is essentially just Harry coming back and giving all these characters this realization of like what truly is happening.

[01:35:45] It's a good chapter.

[01:35:47] Fantastic chapter.

[01:35:48] I was kind of shocked that Harry was playing dead.

[01:35:52] Yeah.

[01:35:53] I don't know why.

[01:35:54] And I don't know what the alternative would have been or what the benefit of not playing dead would be.

[01:36:01] But just playing dead I was like is this the right move?

[01:36:04] Like should he be doing that?

[01:36:06] Or I thought he would maybe get like a wink to Hagrid.

[01:36:10] And then Hagrid would be like oh okay.

[01:36:11] And then he'd be able to like stay closer to him or something.

[01:36:14] But maybe if they knew Harry was alive like Neville wouldn't have killed the snake.

[01:36:20] I don't know.

[01:36:21] That's fascinating.

[01:36:22] I think he'd feel like he would have.

[01:36:23] Yeah.

[01:36:24] Especially if Harry like acted weak like you need to help me out.

[01:36:27] Yeah.

[01:36:27] It is like what else would he have done to be honest?

[01:36:29] Yeah.

[01:36:30] Because like can you even walk up the grounds at that point?

[01:36:33] Like how weak are you?

[01:36:34] He walks through the castle.

[01:36:36] I feel like he's almost at full strength.

[01:36:38] I can't imagine how tired he is.

[01:36:39] Yeah.

[01:36:40] Dude.

[01:36:40] Just physical exhaustion.

[01:36:41] Absolutely.

[01:36:42] That's the worst.

[01:36:43] Yeah.

[01:36:43] I'd be dragging.

[01:36:47] But he's like biding his time which is why I like this chapter.

[01:36:50] Because he's under the invisibility cloak for half of it.

[01:36:53] Where he's playing dead then he goes under the invisibility cloak and doesn't show himself

[01:36:56] for such a long time.

[01:36:57] Which is shocking because there's all sorts of like battles going on.

[01:37:00] But.

[01:37:01] Yeah.

[01:37:01] He's doing that because he has this realization that no one else in this chapter does.

[01:37:06] That Voldemort cannot harm a single hair on anybody's head because he cast a charm over

[01:37:11] the entire.

[01:37:13] Over everyone in Hogwarts now.

[01:37:15] Harry did that because Harry willingly died.

[01:37:17] Yeah.

[01:37:17] That now everybody see.

[01:37:19] Which is why I think Harry is under the invisibility cloak and he's not immediately tugging it off

[01:37:23] and trying to defeat Voldemort in the Forbidden Forest as soon as he wakes up.

[01:37:27] Because then it's like kill him again.

[01:37:28] Because like he needs Voldemort to almost like to see the error of his ways.

[01:37:33] And this might sound wild.

[01:37:36] He wants to give Voldemort a chance to have remorse.

[01:37:42] Huh?

[01:37:42] Huh?

[01:37:44] You don't think that?

[01:37:45] Huh?

[01:37:46] Why would he?

[01:37:47] Harry says it.

[01:37:48] He doesn't even know how.

[01:37:49] I know he says it.

[01:37:50] But like.

[01:37:51] I don't understand the process of like having remorse and then undoing Horcrux.

[01:37:57] I don't understand that either.

[01:37:58] It's so painful that it might lead to someone dying.

[01:38:00] But Harry doesn't know that either.

[01:38:02] So like he doesn't actually think that Voldemort's ever going to like be able to undo anything.

[01:38:10] Right?

[01:38:11] No.

[01:38:11] Or do you think he wants him to feel sorry and then he'd still kill him?

[01:38:16] No.

[01:38:17] I think he's genuinely here.

[01:38:18] Like genuinely offering him a chance here to take back the evil things that he didn't.

[01:38:25] He's like.

[01:38:25] This is like his one last chance for redemption.

[01:38:28] Because Harry knows that Voldemort cannot touch anybody.

[01:38:31] So Harry's not in any danger of losing anybody in this hall.

[01:38:35] But like I don't get that because people are still fighting.

[01:38:38] Bellatrix is going in.

[01:38:39] But Voldemort.

[01:38:39] Yeah.

[01:38:40] Bellatrix is.

[01:38:41] But Voldemort cannot touch a hair on anybody's head.

[01:38:43] So Voldemort's casting spells around and they're not doing anything to anybody.

[01:38:46] But Harry is being a little reckless in that Bellatrix could potentially kill someone.

[01:38:50] Although I don't know fully about that.

[01:38:51] With like his three like favorite women too.

[01:38:53] Against Bellatrix.

[01:38:54] But the only thing is we never saw Bellatrix like hit anybody with a curse.

[01:38:57] So like if Bellatrix really did hit someone would it have worked?

[01:39:00] Didn't she kill Sirius?

[01:39:01] She did.

[01:39:02] But that was way.

[01:39:09] About five.

[01:39:10] Yeah.

[01:39:11] She's one of the most powerful.

[01:39:13] Because she's really dark too.

[01:39:14] Yeah.

[01:39:15] Is she the one who says there's nothing I wouldn't do?

[01:39:18] Or is that Narcissa?

[01:39:19] Because Narcissa is protecting Draco.

[01:39:20] Narcissa is protecting Draco in that moment I think.

[01:39:23] But.

[01:39:23] And I thought like the first time I read that I thought that was Narcissa like threatening

[01:39:28] that she would do something to Bellatrix.

[01:39:30] Yeah.

[01:39:30] Yeah.

[01:39:31] Not just like something to do with Draco in the Dark Lord.

[01:39:34] I thought she was like ready to like zap Bellatrix.

[01:39:37] Because Bellatrix was like holding her back and stuff.

[01:39:40] Huh.

[01:39:41] You know and Bellatrix was like.

[01:39:42] I would have to like reread that because I had that thought when I read it.

[01:39:45] And then you said something like totally different that never like crossed my mind.

[01:39:50] I was like okay.

[01:39:50] Must have just been wrong.

[01:39:51] Didn't say anything.

[01:39:52] Come on.

[01:39:53] Just ignore what I say and go with what you say.

[01:39:55] Yeah.

[01:39:55] Who knows what's gaslighting.

[01:39:57] What's cannon.

[01:39:58] What's headcanning.

[01:40:00] But yeah that.

[01:40:02] I feel like Bellatrix also has that mentality of there's nothing I wouldn't do.

[01:40:08] Because she's like desperately trying to rescue Voldemort.

[01:40:12] She's like how can you be that wrong?

[01:40:14] How can you be that blind?

[01:40:15] Yeah.

[01:40:16] Yeah.

[01:40:16] But.

[01:40:18] That's interesting.

[01:40:22] It.

[01:40:23] It does.

[01:40:24] Like those kind of lines do make me.

[01:40:27] Have a weird respect for Narcissa.

[01:40:30] Mama bear.

[01:40:31] Yeah.

[01:40:31] For real.

[01:40:32] Yeah.

[01:40:33] Yeah.

[01:40:33] It's coming out.

[01:40:37] What were we saying about Bellatrix?

[01:40:40] That Bellatrix is still.

[01:40:42] Yeah.

[01:40:42] We don't know if she could kill someone in this room or not.

[01:40:46] There probably is an answer for that.

[01:40:48] I don't know it.

[01:40:49] I would err to saying that she can.

[01:40:53] Voldemort's really the only one that can't kill anybody in this room.

[01:40:55] Maybe she's really killed Bellatrix right?

[01:40:57] Yeah.

[01:40:57] It was a great moment.

[01:40:58] But without like a.

[01:41:00] She looked like a stunning spell or something right?

[01:41:03] Yeah.

[01:41:04] Which is weird.

[01:41:06] Let me find that.

[01:41:08] I think.

[01:41:08] I think he like stunned her.

[01:41:11] She stunned her.

[01:41:13] And it went like under her like wand arm into her chest.

[01:41:18] And then she died.

[01:41:19] It says.

[01:41:21] Hundreds of people.

[01:41:24] Now line the walls.

[01:41:25] Watching the two fights.

[01:41:27] Voldemort and his three opponents.

[01:41:29] This was so.

[01:41:29] I had zero memory of this.

[01:41:31] Really?

[01:41:31] This is insane to me that like everyone's watching this in a ring.

[01:41:35] Yeah.

[01:41:36] Oh my.

[01:41:36] It'd be so intense.

[01:41:38] It legitimately is.

[01:41:39] It's so intense in the books.

[01:41:40] Keep going.

[01:41:41] Bellatrix and Molly.

[01:41:43] And Harry stood invisible.

[01:41:45] Torn between both.

[01:41:46] Wanting to attack.

[01:41:47] And yet to protect.

[01:41:48] Unable to be sure that he would not hit the innocent.

[01:41:52] What will happen to your children when I've killed you?

[01:41:54] Taunted Bellatrix.

[01:41:55] As mad as her master.

[01:41:59] Capering as Molly's curses danced around her.

[01:42:03] When mommy's gone.

[01:42:05] The same way as Freddy.

[01:42:06] You will never touch our children again.

[01:42:09] Screamed Mrs. Weasley.

[01:42:10] Bellatrix laughed.

[01:42:11] The same exhilarated laugh her cousin Sirius had given her.

[01:42:15] As she.

[01:42:15] As he toppled backward through the veil.

[01:42:17] Suddenly Harry knew what was going to happen before it did.

[01:42:21] Molly's curse.

[01:42:22] We don't know if it was a stunning spell.

[01:42:24] Molly's curse.

[01:42:25] Soared beneath Bellatrix's outstretched arm.

[01:42:27] And hit her squarely in the chest.

[01:42:29] Directly over her heart.

[01:42:30] Bellatrix's gloating smile froze.

[01:42:33] Her eyes seemed to bulge.

[01:42:35] For the tiniest space of time she knew what had happened.

[01:42:38] And then she toppled.

[01:42:39] And the watching crowd roared and Voldemort screamed.

[01:42:42] Wow.

[01:42:44] That's insane.

[01:42:45] Yeah.

[01:42:47] I will say my other brother.

[01:42:48] Not the brother that you know.

[01:42:49] This is the only moment that he cried in the series.

[01:42:52] The only moment?

[01:42:53] Yeah.

[01:42:53] He loved the series with everything.

[01:42:55] He's not like a big like an emotional reader.

[01:42:57] Yeah.

[01:42:58] But he said when he read that part.

[01:42:59] I'm like thinking.

[01:43:00] He said the line where he says.

[01:43:02] You will never touch our children again.

[01:43:03] Because my brother has three kids.

[01:43:05] He was like.

[01:43:05] The defense that he has here.

[01:43:07] That's nuts.

[01:43:08] And when Ginny is fighting Bellatrix.

[01:43:10] And then Molly steps in goes.

[01:43:12] Not my daughter you bitch.

[01:43:14] Yeah.

[01:43:14] My brother was like.

[01:43:15] I lost it.

[01:43:17] He's like.

[01:43:17] Like I was laughing.

[01:43:19] Yeah.

[01:43:19] I thought that was so funny.

[01:43:20] It was a great moment.

[01:43:21] It was so good.

[01:43:22] Because she like.

[01:43:23] Has like minor curses.

[01:43:25] That are like.

[01:43:26] Are those curse words.

[01:43:27] Yeah.

[01:43:27] But then just to have it in caps too.

[01:43:29] I was like.

[01:43:29] This is so funny.

[01:43:30] I know.

[01:43:31] It's such a good moment.

[01:43:32] And then I.

[01:43:32] After I was laughing.

[01:43:33] I was like.

[01:43:33] Okay.

[01:43:34] I need to get back in.

[01:43:35] Back in the zone.

[01:43:36] Yeah.

[01:43:37] It's so good.

[01:43:37] It's so freaking good.

[01:43:41] But yeah.

[01:43:42] And yeah.

[01:43:43] Like everybody's just lining the walls.

[01:43:44] Watching this go down.

[01:43:46] Then Voldemort and Harry.

[01:43:47] Just keep circling each other.

[01:43:49] Like.

[01:43:49] Yeah.

[01:43:49] Literally like a snake charmer thing.

[01:43:51] Dang.

[01:43:52] Honestly.

[01:43:52] That's a great way to put it.

[01:43:53] I never thought about that.

[01:43:54] Yeah.

[01:43:54] It's like snake.

[01:43:55] Harry finally charming his last snake.

[01:43:57] And they're like staring each other in the eyes too.

[01:43:59] Which is like the snake charmer.

[01:44:01] Yeah.

[01:44:01] Dang.

[01:44:02] Right.

[01:44:02] That's cool.

[01:44:03] Cool.

[01:44:04] Cool.

[01:44:05] Wow.

[01:44:05] And then he doesn't even kill him.

[01:44:06] It's like.

[01:44:07] Voldemort kills himself.

[01:44:08] Yep.

[01:44:10] I've never read this book before.

[01:44:11] That was like insane to me.

[01:44:13] Right.

[01:44:14] And I.

[01:44:14] Like I saw the.

[01:44:16] You know how everything's in italics.

[01:44:17] Yeah.

[01:44:18] I like saw it on the other page.

[01:44:19] That it was Avada Kedavra and Expelliarmus.

[01:44:21] And I was like.

[01:44:22] Oh dang.

[01:44:23] Like he like.

[01:44:24] He just.

[01:44:25] Expelliarmus is Voldemort.

[01:44:26] And that's like his trademark spell is like.

[01:44:28] Everybody knows you just because you disarm people.

[01:44:30] You don't like actually kill them.

[01:44:32] Yeah.

[01:44:32] And then I was like wait.

[01:44:33] How is Voldemort dead?

[01:44:34] And then like that thought was in the back of my mind as I was reading the sentence.

[01:44:37] And it was like because Voldemort's own spell came back at him.

[01:44:40] And I was like.

[01:44:41] No way.

[01:44:42] Poetic justice right there.

[01:44:44] That's insane.

[01:44:46] Yeah.

[01:44:46] They just collided in the air.

[01:44:49] Harry gets a wand.

[01:44:51] Voldemort dies.

[01:44:52] And then everybody stands there and it's just like silence and shock.

[01:44:55] And then it's just like.

[01:44:58] Jubilation.

[01:44:59] It's so good.

[01:45:00] It is so good.

[01:45:01] In all of our discussions on like justice.

[01:45:04] This is what I mean.

[01:45:04] That Harry is unwilling to use a killing curse for this.

[01:45:07] It makes him a moral person I think.

[01:45:11] And he is trying.

[01:45:14] I don't know what this would really mean or entail.

[01:45:16] But he's trying to get Voldemort to have some remorse.

[01:45:19] He's trying to get him to see actual justice in this situation.

[01:45:23] Rather than just revenge.

[01:45:24] Which is what makes Harry a remarkable person.

[01:45:27] That in this story.

[01:45:28] In the way that he wants to get revenge.

[01:45:30] He realizes that it's a poison.

[01:45:32] And that he is out seeking for justice for everyone that he loves.

[01:45:35] Which is such a more compelling story I think.

[01:45:40] Yeah.

[01:45:40] Because he.

[01:45:41] Yeah.

[01:45:41] I think he wants him to be like.

[01:45:43] Look this is justice.

[01:45:44] This is revenge.

[01:45:44] Yep.

[01:45:46] Agreed.

[01:45:47] So everyone has learned from this example now.

[01:45:48] They see Harry using Expelliarmus as his last curse against Voldemort.

[01:45:52] And Voldemort to own curse killing them.

[01:45:54] Killing him.

[01:45:55] Yeah.

[01:45:55] And I'm assuming that as like history moves on.

[01:45:58] Harry's like very revered.

[01:46:00] Yeah.

[01:46:01] And that goes down in history.

[01:46:02] Like how you defeat your enemies.

[01:46:04] Like the legacy you leave is like.

[01:46:07] Yeah.

[01:46:07] It can be done well.

[01:46:08] It can be done justly.

[01:46:11] Yep.

[01:46:12] You don't have to be like Voldemort to be the most powerful wizard.

[01:46:17] Yeah.

[01:46:18] You can just cast Expelliarmus every once in a while.

[01:46:20] Kill him with kindness.

[01:46:21] That's what it is.

[01:46:22] Harry killed him with kindness.

[01:46:23] Oh that's perfect.

[01:46:25] That is so perfect.

[01:46:27] Yeah.

[01:46:27] And it's just so good.

[01:46:28] Like Neville is great in this chapter.

[01:46:31] Neville.

[01:46:31] The sword coming out of the hat.

[01:46:33] I called that too like a little bit earlier.

[01:46:36] Right.

[01:46:36] Because I was like as soon as he told Neville that was going to happen.

[01:46:39] I was like oh my gosh.

[01:46:40] The hat is going to bring him the sword.

[01:46:42] Because there's no other way that like he's going to kill Horcrux.

[01:46:45] Yeah.

[01:46:46] I was like the hat's going to come back.

[01:46:48] And then it like comes flying out the window.

[01:46:50] And it lights him on fire.

[01:46:51] Yep.

[01:46:52] Like what is going on Neville?

[01:46:54] Like get out.

[01:46:55] And then boom bang whatever.

[01:46:58] Snake is dead.

[01:46:59] Wow.

[01:47:00] That was insane.

[01:47:01] There's so many good moments in this chapter.

[01:47:03] And this is like a.

[01:47:04] This is weird.

[01:47:05] Because this is the last chapter in the book besides the epilogue.

[01:47:08] And this gets underplayed.

[01:47:11] Most people love the prior three chapters the most.

[01:47:13] I think this is low key one of the best chapters in the whole book.

[01:47:16] Maybe like for top three.

[01:47:17] Yeah.

[01:47:18] I would say this is like top three to me.

[01:47:19] Because there's so many cool character arcs that happen.

[01:47:22] That you don't get in some of the movies.

[01:47:23] And you'll see this in some of the movies.

[01:47:25] But like there's a moment too.

[01:47:28] In the very beginning of this chapter.

[01:47:31] When Voldemort comes up to all of them.

[01:47:33] And he says Harry Potter is dead.

[01:47:35] Do you understand now deluded ones?

[01:47:36] He was nothing ever.

[01:47:38] But a boy who relied on others to sacrifice themselves for him.

[01:47:42] Do you remember who the first person to speak up against Voldemort is?

[01:47:46] This is such freaking great stuff.

[01:47:49] I love this.

[01:47:50] The first person to speak against Voldemort?

[01:47:52] Yeah.

[01:47:52] I don't know.

[01:47:53] Someone.

[01:47:54] Because he puts like a silencing chime in everyone.

[01:47:56] And the first person to break it is Ron.

[01:47:59] Oh.

[01:47:59] Ron just yells out.

[01:48:00] He beat you.

[01:48:02] Yelled Ron.

[01:48:02] And the charm broke.

[01:48:03] And the defenders of Hogwarts were shouting and screaming again.

[01:48:05] Until a second more powerful bang extinguished their voices once more.

[01:48:09] You've never seen the movies.

[01:48:11] Which makes it great.

[01:48:12] Because Ron is a bimbo in the movies.

[01:48:13] He's an idiot.

[01:48:14] His actor is one of the best actors in the whole series.

[01:48:17] He's like Ron quintessentially.

[01:48:18] Like perfect.

[01:48:19] As far as like appearance.

[01:48:20] And like facial expressions.

[01:48:21] And everything like that.

[01:48:21] He just doesn't have enough lines.

[01:48:23] And doesn't have enough like character development.

[01:48:26] The fact that in the midst of all this stuff.

[01:48:30] When Voldemort speaks.

[01:48:32] Ron.

[01:48:32] His like best friend is the first to defend him.

[01:48:35] Yeah.

[01:48:35] Has such significance.

[01:48:37] And there's no doubt in Ron's mind either.

[01:48:39] It's so good.

[01:48:41] That's such a good point Lizzie.

[01:48:43] I like.

[01:48:43] Oh.

[01:48:44] It's so good.

[01:48:44] I feel like you know that meme where he goes.

[01:48:47] Colby Jack.

[01:48:48] Yeah.

[01:48:49] The three greatest Jesus.

[01:48:51] That's so much.

[01:48:53] Let's go.

[01:48:55] Like Ron.

[01:48:56] No doubt in Ron's mind.

[01:48:57] Yeah.

[01:48:57] This is what he needs to do.

[01:48:58] It's so freaking good.

[01:49:01] Um.

[01:49:02] And then Neville.

[01:49:03] Like charging him with the sword.

[01:49:06] It's so good.

[01:49:07] Like Neville's character arc comes to fruition.

[01:49:09] Molly's character arc comes to fruition.

[01:49:12] Creature's character arc comes to fruition.

[01:49:14] Where's Creature coming from?

[01:49:15] Creature comes out of nowhere.

[01:49:16] My boy.

[01:49:17] He knows what he's about.

[01:49:18] Yeah.

[01:49:18] It's like so many good characters in this series.

[01:49:22] Honestly.

[01:49:24] Just hitting their peaks in this chapter.

[01:49:27] Yes.

[01:49:28] A hundred percent.

[01:49:30] It's so good.

[01:49:31] It's so much.

[01:49:32] It's definitely one of like the best chapters.

[01:49:33] And if it's not the best then it's like one of my favorites.

[01:49:35] Yeah.

[01:49:36] Yeah.

[01:49:36] I would say it might be one of my favorites as well.

[01:49:38] Probably top three favorites and I think top three best as well.

[01:49:41] In all the books or this book?

[01:49:43] In all the books.

[01:49:45] I would have to like reread it.

[01:49:47] You know.

[01:49:48] With that in mind.

[01:49:49] Yeah.

[01:49:50] Yeah.

[01:49:50] Give me like one thing to keep in mind every time.

[01:49:53] I'll be like 50 years old and circle back.

[01:49:55] Yeah.

[01:49:56] Um.

[01:49:57] I'll ask us actually at the end.

[01:49:59] But uh.

[01:50:01] Um.

[01:50:02] So when they're circling each other.

[01:50:04] It's like there's a lot of cool revelations that Harry gives even to like the reader.

[01:50:07] Which is really fascinating.

[01:50:09] But he says you won't be killing anyone else tonight.

[01:50:11] Said Harry as they circled and stared into each other's eyes.

[01:50:13] Green into red.

[01:50:14] You won't be able to kill any of them ever again.

[01:50:17] Don't you get it?

[01:50:18] I was ready to die to stop you from hurting these people.

[01:50:20] But you did not.

[01:50:22] I meant to.

[01:50:23] And that's what did it.

[01:50:24] I've done what my mother did.

[01:50:25] They're protected from you.

[01:50:26] Haven't you noticed none of your spells?

[01:50:28] None of the spells you're put.

[01:50:29] You put on them are binding.

[01:50:30] You can't torture them.

[01:50:31] You can't touch them.

[01:50:32] You don't learn from your mistakes riddle do you?

[01:50:34] Well.

[01:50:35] It's like Harry is coming in right now.

[01:50:38] And then he says.

[01:50:39] Yeah it did said Harry.

[01:50:41] You're right.

[01:50:42] But before you try to kill me.

[01:50:44] I'll advise you to think about what you've done.

[01:50:46] Think.

[01:50:47] And try for some reverse riddle.

[01:50:50] What is this?

[01:50:51] Of all the things Harry has said to him.

[01:50:53] Beyond any revelation or taunt.

[01:50:55] Nothing had shocked Voldemort like this.

[01:50:58] Harry saw his pupils contract to thin slits.

[01:51:00] Saw the skin around his eyes whiten.

[01:51:02] It's your one last chance.

[01:51:04] Said Harry.

[01:51:05] It's all you've got left.

[01:51:07] I've seen what you'll be otherwise.

[01:51:10] Be a man.

[01:51:11] Try.

[01:51:12] Try for some remorse.

[01:51:14] Remorse.

[01:51:15] So good.

[01:51:16] Crazy.

[01:51:17] He's calling out his manhood too.

[01:51:19] Yeah.

[01:51:21] It's good.

[01:51:22] It's good.

[01:51:23] Again.

[01:51:23] I was just telling you about a series called Barry.

[01:51:27] And I just finished it.

[01:51:29] And it's essentially like.

[01:51:31] Crap.

[01:51:32] It's like a devastating ending.

[01:51:33] Not.

[01:51:34] It's like not crazy devastating.

[01:51:35] But it's like a character doesn't have remorse over what he's done.

[01:51:38] And he gets off.

[01:51:39] And I'm like.

[01:51:40] That guy was not a man.

[01:51:41] In the end.

[01:51:42] I'm like coming to like grips with like you know.

[01:51:44] The things that you've done wrong like this.

[01:51:46] Trying for remorse.

[01:51:47] Taking responsibility.

[01:51:50] That's.

[01:51:50] It's like it.

[01:51:51] I love it.

[01:51:52] I love.

[01:51:53] Love Harry's offering to him here.

[01:51:58] Then you get the Elder Wand revelation.

[01:52:01] Draco has it.

[01:52:02] That's pretty cool.

[01:52:03] Yeah.

[01:52:04] That.

[01:52:05] Explain that to me.

[01:52:06] Okay.

[01:52:07] So.

[01:52:07] Because like yes.

[01:52:08] But also like.

[01:52:09] You were right.

[01:52:10] But the connection.

[01:52:11] And this is.

[01:52:12] I was trying to ask you a few questions.

[01:52:14] That led you to this.

[01:52:15] But it's hard to see this.

[01:52:16] Because it's like.

[01:52:17] Ollivander has this discussion with Harry.

[01:52:20] Where he's like.

[01:52:21] We don't.

[01:52:22] He's like.

[01:52:22] I don't understand how like wand ownership changes.

[01:52:24] It's like a.

[01:52:25] An influx study.

[01:52:27] So.

[01:52:28] On the.

[01:52:29] On the tower.

[01:52:29] Draco becomes a true master of the Elder Wand.

[01:52:32] Mm-hmm.

[01:52:32] Then.

[01:52:34] In.

[01:52:34] Wait.

[01:52:34] Draco becomes a master because he.

[01:52:37] He disarms Stumbledore.

[01:52:38] And that's like conquering it.

[01:52:39] Yeah.

[01:52:40] It's conquering the wand.

[01:52:41] It's not about killing the person.

[01:52:42] It's about just conquering the wand.

[01:52:44] It's who's.

[01:52:44] Who's.

[01:52:45] And again.

[01:52:46] It's like.

[01:52:47] The wand chooses.

[01:52:49] So we don't really know anything that's going on.

[01:52:50] The wand could have chosen Snape because.

[01:52:52] You know.

[01:52:52] Snape killed him.

[01:52:53] But the wand shows Draco.

[01:52:54] The person that disarmed him.

[01:52:56] So Draco got there first.

[01:52:57] And then.

[01:52:58] Draco has his own wand.

[01:53:00] And I guess through like telepathy of wands.

[01:53:02] Wands like.

[01:53:02] You know.

[01:53:02] Speak to each other.

[01:53:03] The Elder Wand knew that Harry had disarmed Draco.

[01:53:07] By.

[01:53:08] Going up to Draco.

[01:53:09] And just ripping Draco's wand out of his hand.

[01:53:11] In Malfoy Manor.

[01:53:13] So.

[01:53:13] There was a moment where like.

[01:53:15] Dobby was like.

[01:53:15] Unscrew the thing.

[01:53:16] The thing came down.

[01:53:17] There was chaos.

[01:53:17] Right before Harry left.

[01:53:18] He raced over to Draco.

[01:53:20] Took three of the wands that Draco had in his arms.

[01:53:22] And ripped them out of his hand.

[01:53:23] And that was enough.

[01:53:24] Just that single moment.

[01:53:25] Where Harry became the owner.

[01:53:27] The true owner of the Elder Wand.

[01:53:28] Because through telepathy of the wands.

[01:53:30] Through somehow.

[01:53:31] Some.

[01:53:31] Through magic.

[01:53:32] We don't really know.

[01:53:33] The wand chose Harry.

[01:53:36] To be the rightful owner of it.

[01:53:38] The Elder Wand could sense that its owner had been conquered.

[01:53:42] Yes.

[01:53:42] He had been overtaken by someone else.

[01:53:44] So neither of them get it by killing somebody.

[01:53:46] Yeah.

[01:53:47] Neither of them got it from killing someone.

[01:53:48] That's crazy.

[01:53:49] Yeah.

[01:53:50] Which is crazy.

[01:53:50] First, second time in history.

[01:53:52] Yeah.

[01:53:53] Not necessarily that people have killed other people.

[01:53:55] But like.

[01:53:56] People have taken the wand.

[01:53:57] And then they slit the person's throat for good measure.

[01:54:00] So it's like.

[01:54:00] I guess killing the person doesn't necessarily do it.

[01:54:02] It's just like the wand.

[01:54:04] Probably transfers more often than not.

[01:54:06] Out of.

[01:54:08] Someone disarming someone.

[01:54:10] Like.

[01:54:10] Like Dumbledore.

[01:54:11] Probably just disarmed.

[01:54:13] No, you're good.

[01:54:14] It's getting late.

[01:54:15] Dumbledore probably just disarmed Grindelwald.

[01:54:18] He didn't kill him.

[01:54:20] Grindelwald was still riding in a prison.

[01:54:21] And he wasn't the true owner of the Elder Wand.

[01:54:23] So Grindelwald was the owner of the Elder Wand.

[01:54:25] You don't think they did that in the duel?

[01:54:26] He did.

[01:54:27] But he didn't kill him in the duel.

[01:54:29] Dumbledore didn't kill Grindelwald.

[01:54:31] He just disarmed him or did something.

[01:54:33] And so the Elder Wand then went to Dumbledore.

[01:54:36] Which went to Draco Malfoy.

[01:54:38] Which went to Harry Potter.

[01:54:41] Wow.

[01:54:42] It was never in Voldemort's possession.

[01:54:43] Which is great.

[01:54:46] One more.

[01:54:47] It's very dangerous though.

[01:54:48] Because Harry is essentially like.

[01:54:50] Let me put this back in your grave.

[01:54:52] And I think this is like.

[01:54:53] I like how he fixes his own wand though.

[01:54:55] Yeah.

[01:54:56] It's cool.

[01:54:56] So good.

[01:54:57] That makes me so happy.

[01:54:58] Yeah.

[01:54:59] You don't get that in the movies.

[01:55:00] Which is devastating.

[01:55:01] What?

[01:55:01] You get a whole different series in the movies.

[01:55:03] Who produced these movies?

[01:55:04] Like why do they suck?

[01:55:05] A bunch of different people.

[01:55:06] I feel like they suck and I haven't even watched them yet.

[01:55:08] You're going to like them.

[01:55:09] But you're going to hate them at the same time.

[01:55:11] I hope I have like the mind to be able to see the differences between the books and the movies.

[01:55:17] Yeah.

[01:55:17] I'll point out some to you.

[01:55:19] Like there's one difference.

[01:55:22] Actually I'm not going to point out any yet.

[01:55:25] Actually I'll point out this one.

[01:55:27] In the movies.

[01:55:30] You've never seen any of the Marvel movies have you?

[01:55:32] Okay well.

[01:55:33] Spider-Man Homecoming.

[01:55:34] There you go.

[01:55:35] In the movies Voldemort dies by having a grand duel with Harry and then Harry's curse hits him.

[01:55:42] The wand flies out.

[01:55:43] Harry catches it.

[01:55:44] And then Voldemort himself just like turns into dust and ashes and like just ebbs away into the wind.

[01:55:51] It's like weird.

[01:55:52] Rather than in the books there's like a thud and his body is still there.

[01:55:57] Yeah they're all looking at it.

[01:55:58] Yeah they're all looking at it.

[01:55:59] But it has like no power anymore.

[01:56:01] It's like his body is just there.

[01:56:04] It's a difference but in the movies it's like they try to make it more grand.

[01:56:08] But I think it's actually a heck of a lot better in the books.

[01:56:11] And there's differences between the wand, all that kind of stuff.

[01:56:13] I feel like the diminishing into a little cloud of dust is less grand because it like lessens you as a person.

[01:56:22] Agreed.

[01:56:22] Less defeat.

[01:56:23] Whereas like you're a dead body on the floor.

[01:56:25] Like you're totally completely a real person.

[01:56:29] Yep.

[01:56:29] 100% agree.

[01:56:33] But yeah Harry he puts the elder wand back into Dumbledore's tomb where he's going to.

[01:56:39] But in the discussion that he has with the portrait.

[01:56:41] I thought he put it in Peverell's tomb.

[01:56:44] I thought he said something about like going back.

[01:56:47] I don't think he would put it in that Peverell's tomb because that brother wasn't the owner of the elder wand.

[01:56:51] That brother was the owner of the cloak.

[01:56:57] Harry returns the elder wand to Albus Dumbledore's tomb in the white tomb near Hogwarts after defeating Voldemort in the Battle of Hogwarts.

[01:57:04] Thank you AI.

[01:57:10] So my only issue with that is he returns it but it still is going to have ownership.

[01:57:16] Someone out there is going to have ownership of the elder wand.

[01:57:18] I thought it was buried with him because he references Ignatius or whatever his name is.

[01:57:23] That would have been poetic.

[01:57:24] That would have been kind of cool.

[01:57:25] Yeah I thought because he was like if I die like that guy I'm going to return it to where it came from.

[01:57:29] But it came from Thelmedore's tomb.

[01:57:31] Yeah.

[01:57:31] I just got confused.

[01:57:32] Sorry I didn't hear anything that she said.

[01:57:34] I was just reading that.

[01:57:38] Okay so this is my issue with this line.

[01:57:41] In Harry's mind.

[01:57:43] Or not in Harry's mind.

[01:57:45] In my mind there will always be ownership of the elder wand.

[01:57:49] Someone will always be an owner of it.

[01:57:50] It will sit in that tomb for a while.

[01:57:54] And the elder wand in its own mind will know who the owner of the elder wand is.

[01:57:58] But no one else might know it.

[01:57:59] So it kind of will fade.

[01:58:01] But the owner is still going to be out there.

[01:58:03] Harry is the owner.

[01:58:04] If Harry just dies of natural causes and never gets disarmed again in his entire life.

[01:58:10] And he has a whole career as an Auror.

[01:58:13] So if no one else disarms him.

[01:58:15] If Ginny doesn't play a quick little cute prank and like disarms her husband with the wand.

[01:58:18] You know.

[01:58:19] That is so crazy.

[01:58:21] Then Ginny becomes the owner of the elder wand.

[01:58:23] Unbeknownst really to Harry.

[01:58:24] Like Harry might not even recognize that.

[01:58:27] But she becomes the owner of the elder wand.

[01:58:29] And say like one of their kids does it.

[01:58:31] And then say like at school.

[01:58:32] You know one of their.

[01:58:33] Another random student disarms their kid.

[01:58:35] You know it's like progressing from this point.

[01:58:38] So there's always going to be an owner of the elder wand.

[01:58:40] You just don't know who it is.

[01:58:41] Who's going to go dig up Dumbledore's grave?

[01:58:42] Yeah that's a question.

[01:58:43] But the lore is still out there.

[01:58:46] So like people are still searching for this elder wand.

[01:58:49] And so the.

[01:58:50] It's going to be much harder to connect the lore with the actual owner of the elder wand.

[01:58:55] I don't know if they ever will be able to do it.

[01:58:56] There's no way to track the random disarmings.

[01:58:58] Yeah for sure.

[01:58:59] Completely agree.

[01:59:00] But my only issue is.

[01:59:01] Somewhere down the line there might be some wizard.

[01:59:04] Who realizes he's immensely powerful.

[01:59:07] And he you know disarms some random person.

[01:59:10] And is like.

[01:59:12] I'm going to go find the elder wand.

[01:59:13] And he finds the elder wand.

[01:59:14] And he realizes that like you know has power.

[01:59:16] Or like you know he really is the owner of the elder wand.

[01:59:19] It would be random.

[01:59:20] It's like one in a million chance.

[01:59:21] But it could happen.

[01:59:23] I don't love that.

[01:59:24] I'm like Harry.

[01:59:25] No but I see what you're saying.

[01:59:27] Yeah.

[01:59:27] For sure.

[01:59:27] There's just risk.

[01:59:28] The same thing with dropping the stone.

[01:59:30] Someone could find that.

[01:59:32] Very rare that someone would find it.

[01:59:33] That annoyed me.

[01:59:34] I was like no way.

[01:59:34] Like people are wandering.

[01:59:35] I don't know where you are in the forest.

[01:59:37] Like maybe it's really gone.

[01:59:39] Or maybe like a centaur finds it.

[01:59:41] And it's just like.

[01:59:42] Right.

[01:59:42] Now part of like their history.

[01:59:44] Yeah.

[01:59:44] Honestly.

[01:59:44] Yeah.

[01:59:45] That would actually be kind of fascinating.

[01:59:46] That's like a good little rewrite.

[01:59:49] And I guess it's kind of like not that important either.

[01:59:52] Yeah.

[01:59:52] Like it's not going to bring anybody's downfall.

[01:59:54] For sure.

[01:59:54] They're just going to be like whoa my family's back.

[01:59:57] Yeah.

[01:59:57] Agreed.

[01:59:59] But yeah.

[01:59:59] I also felt that like Harry's normal wand.

[02:00:04] His phoenix wand is going to be like extra powerful now.

[02:00:07] I feel like it is.

[02:00:08] I feel like it's definitely very very powerful.

[02:00:10] I feel like some of the elder wand power went into that.

[02:00:13] Yeah.

[02:00:13] I kind of like that.

[02:00:14] Like when he was fixing his wand.

[02:00:16] So maybe they're like 50-50 and then that'll like rot faster in the grave.

[02:00:19] And then Harry's with the wand.

[02:00:20] I like it.

[02:00:21] I like it.

[02:00:21] Yeah.

[02:00:22] I'm down with that theory.

[02:00:26] Did you have anything else in this chapter?

[02:00:29] I don't think so.

[02:00:30] I'm like just going off.

[02:00:32] Yeah.

[02:00:32] Vibe.

[02:00:33] Not even looking.

[02:00:34] How about the epilogue?

[02:00:35] Anything in the epilogue?

[02:00:37] How did you like Professor Longbottom?

[02:00:39] Oh that made me so happy.

[02:00:41] Right?

[02:00:41] My heart.

[02:00:42] And she's like give him our love.

[02:00:44] I know.

[02:00:44] Mom he's a professor.

[02:00:45] You can't give him my love.

[02:00:47] And just the names of everybody.

[02:00:49] Yeah I know.

[02:00:50] Like that was really sweet.

[02:00:52] Some people don't like the epilogue at all.

[02:00:54] I love it.

[02:00:54] I think it's great.

[02:00:55] I loved it.

[02:00:56] Yeah.

[02:00:56] That was what I needed.

[02:00:58] Yeah.

[02:00:58] You need that.

[02:00:59] You want the story to go on.

[02:01:01] And then just to have like that little bit of extra canon.

[02:01:04] You know what goes on.

[02:01:05] Yeah.

[02:01:06] Yeah.

[02:01:06] And then like even just the fact that like the Malfoys are civil but not like.

[02:01:11] Yeah.

[02:01:11] You know.

[02:01:12] Maybe.

[02:01:12] You just like don't know what's going on with the Malfoys.

[02:01:14] Honestly they should be in prison.

[02:01:17] Yeah.

[02:01:18] Because they're Death Eaters.

[02:01:19] Yeah.

[02:01:20] Or is that like Draco then?

[02:01:22] Yeah.

[02:01:23] Draco did commit some more crimes.

[02:01:25] Draco shouldn't be in prison though.

[02:01:27] I don't know.

[02:01:27] Maybe he should be.

[02:01:29] Dumbledore wouldn't put him in prison.

[02:01:31] Yeah.

[02:01:32] Dumbledore tried to get him out of prison.

[02:01:33] He spared his soul.

[02:01:34] Draco was a minor maybe during all this.

[02:01:36] So yeah.

[02:01:36] Maybe you could say something like that.

[02:01:38] But I don't know.

[02:01:39] He's a little rough.

[02:01:41] Maybe his grandparents are in prison somewhere.

[02:01:44] But yeah.

[02:01:44] I like that there's like no.

[02:01:46] There's like.

[02:01:47] I don't know.

[02:01:50] I don't know what there is between them.

[02:01:51] What was the word you used?

[02:01:54] For what?

[02:01:58] What was the word you used to say?

[02:01:58] It was like not.

[02:01:59] What word did I even read?

[02:02:00] You said a word that was like.

[02:02:02] Like a second ago.

[02:02:03] A minute ago.

[02:02:04] I have no idea.

[02:02:05] I don't know.

[02:02:05] It was a good word though.

[02:02:06] There's no animosity.

[02:02:08] Yeah.

[02:02:08] Maybe that's what it was.

[02:02:09] I don't know.

[02:02:10] Yeah.

[02:02:10] I think that's what it was.

[02:02:12] Yeah.

[02:02:13] There's no animosity.

[02:02:14] There's not like you know cordialness.

[02:02:15] There's not like civility.

[02:02:16] I said there's civil.

[02:02:17] Yeah.

[02:02:18] Yeah.

[02:02:19] Run it back.

[02:02:20] Run it back.

[02:02:20] We'll find it.

[02:02:21] So I'm going to go hit that 15 second back button.

[02:02:22] Yeah.

[02:02:26] So yeah.

[02:02:28] Epilogue's kind of nice.

[02:02:28] I kind of like it.

[02:02:29] I think it's kind of necessary.

[02:02:30] And even just like Teddy.

[02:02:31] I thought like the epilogue was going to be like them raising Teddy for a second.

[02:02:35] Yeah.

[02:02:36] But they didn't like adopt Teddy.

[02:02:38] Who adopted Teddy?

[02:02:40] Teddy.

[02:02:41] So Teddy was living with his grandmother.

[02:02:43] Because Ted Tonks is dead too.

[02:02:45] Yeah.

[02:02:45] Ted Tonks is dead.

[02:02:46] So he's living with Andromeda Tonks.

[02:02:50] That's such a good name.

[02:02:51] I know.

[02:02:51] I don't need my kid to that.

[02:02:52] I know.

[02:02:52] For real.

[02:02:53] It's a great name.

[02:02:55] And Nymphadora too.

[02:02:56] Yeah.

[02:02:57] Nymphadora is a great one.

[02:02:58] I actually like have a list on my phone of baby names and I had Nympha on there already.

[02:03:03] No way.

[02:03:04] Yeah.

[02:03:04] And I just like read it somewhere randomly and then Nymphadora I was like okay we're definitely

[02:03:09] naming my kid that.

[02:03:11] That was already on the list.

[02:03:13] Oh that's such a good name.

[02:03:15] I love that.

[02:03:17] Oh I love that.

[02:03:18] But he's just chilling with his grandma.

[02:03:21] Little Dora.

[02:03:22] Yeah I know.

[02:03:22] He's chilling with his grandma.

[02:03:24] He goes over to the Potters all the time for like you know dinners.

[02:03:27] But he's like making out with one of the other Weasley siblings kids.

[02:03:32] Yeah.

[02:03:33] So like who is that?

[02:03:35] He's hanging out with Bill and Flora's daughter.

[02:03:38] Oh.

[02:03:40] Victoire.

[02:03:41] Oh.

[02:03:42] Okay.

[02:03:42] So she must be a babe because she's like you know part.

[02:03:45] Quarter Vila.

[02:03:46] Yeah.

[02:03:46] Quarter Vila.

[02:03:47] Whatever it is.

[02:03:48] That's exciting.

[02:03:50] Yeah.

[02:03:50] Families.

[02:03:51] Families are uniting.

[02:03:52] A little like you know inbreeding there.

[02:03:55] That's not one.

[02:03:56] That's not inbreeding.

[02:03:56] Yeah.

[02:03:57] I know.

[02:03:58] But they're just they're yeah.

[02:04:01] That's best friends.

[02:04:02] Yeah.

[02:04:02] It's BFFs.

[02:04:03] Or like Harry's the honorary sibling essentially.

[02:04:08] Yeah.

[02:04:09] But yeah it's it's a I like the epilogue.

[02:04:11] I think it's a good you kind of need it.

[02:04:13] If it ended right before that you would have been like what happens?

[02:04:16] But like you get a little bit of closure a little bit more and you like know the story

[02:04:19] goes on.

[02:04:20] You know there's like extra life.

[02:04:21] And I like that it's so far in the future too.

[02:04:25] Like I like that it's not like the next day they all woke up and like lived happily.

[02:04:29] Like it's better that you just see their life.

[02:04:32] And then also like the kids struggle back to like literally square one of like what if

[02:04:36] I'm in Slytherin?

[02:04:37] And then Dumbledore had like just raised all these questions of like we saw it too early.

[02:04:41] Should Snape have been in Gryffindor?

[02:04:43] I low-key feel like Snape could have been like Hufflepuff almost.

[02:04:47] Because he's like.

[02:04:48] Dang.

[02:04:48] Okay.

[02:04:49] I'll take him.

[02:04:50] I'll take him.

[02:04:50] Because that's what they're talking about is like the love.

[02:04:53] And then he's like oh we saw it too soon.

[02:04:55] Yeah.

[02:04:55] And like Snape's willing to give up his life to like try to get back to this girl.

[02:05:00] Yeah.

[02:05:00] But he could also be Ravenclaw.

[02:05:02] Like he could be anything.

[02:05:03] Yeah.

[02:05:04] Someone pointed this out and this is one of my favorite tidbits of the epilogue.

[02:05:09] I think it was Jason Concepcion.

[02:05:12] He gets all the credit for this.

[02:05:14] He ran a podcast with another woman, Mallory Rubin.

[02:05:18] And it was a binge mode.

[02:05:19] It's like Harry Potter's favorite, fans' favorite podcast.

[02:05:22] It's like the greatest podcast.

[02:05:23] We all love it.

[02:05:23] But the first line, the first line in the epilogue is autumn seemed to arrive suddenly

[02:05:28] that year.

[02:05:29] And it is phenomenal that that is written for this one little reason that in every previous

[02:05:36] book autumn would drag because Harry was forced to say that there is leaves.

[02:05:42] And every single book, it was like it did not come quick enough.

[02:05:46] He was that was the only thing he could live for.

[02:05:50] And now he's with his family.

[02:05:52] He's built his family and he doesn't want to let go because he's actually living a good

[02:05:55] whole life.

[02:05:56] That line is so good of writing that autumn seemed to arrive suddenly that year because

[02:06:01] to Harry, life is going so well that he does not want the summer to end now.

[02:06:07] He wants the summer to continue on, to be with his kids, be with like, you know, all

[02:06:10] these people that he loves.

[02:06:12] It's so good.

[02:06:13] Such a good bit of writing.

[02:06:14] I love that.

[02:06:14] I know.

[02:06:15] So thank you, Jason.

[02:06:16] If you ever listen to this podcast, love that.

[02:06:20] So that's that's the Harry Potter, the series of Harry Potter.

[02:06:24] It's over.

[02:06:25] It's over.

[02:06:26] That is so sad.

[02:06:28] No, no, no.

[02:06:28] This this is only the beginning of the journey.

[02:06:32] Lizzie.

[02:06:34] There's more podcasts to come.

[02:06:35] I'm going to get emotional.

[02:06:37] Stop.

[02:06:38] Tell me.

[02:06:39] Don't tell me all your favorites.

[02:06:41] Just tell me one one question.

[02:06:44] What is maybe not one question.

[02:06:47] What's the most emotional moment that hit you this whole entire series?

[02:06:53] Whoa.

[02:06:57] Honestly, I think it was reading this last chunk of chapters because like serious as death

[02:07:03] hit me.

[02:07:04] But that was something I expected.

[02:07:06] And it's like very like a temporary thing.

[02:07:09] But this like these last chapters, there's so much build up to them.

[02:07:14] And they just like don't stop once you start.

[02:07:16] It's just like on and on and on.

[02:07:18] And you go up and down and up and down.

[02:07:19] And then like really what got me was Snape like loving air quotes, whatever you guys think.

[02:07:27] Loving Lily.

[02:07:29] And then like that scene with Dumbledore kind of like started me getting really emotional.

[02:07:34] And then like him looking at Lily's signature.

[02:07:36] And then especially when he used the resurrection stone.

[02:07:42] That was like when I literally lost and was like blowing my nose.

[02:07:46] That was probably like the most emotional I've got at this.

[02:07:49] Yeah.

[02:07:50] Such a good moment.

[02:07:52] Because that's like all love again, like coming back.

[02:07:55] Like those are the people that you love and they're helping you save the people that you love

[02:07:59] that you actually can like actually rescue and not just die.

[02:08:05] The love crux.

[02:08:06] The love crux.

[02:08:07] Wow.

[02:08:08] Answer me this one last question.

[02:08:10] I should have given you time to think about this one.

[02:08:12] What has this series meant to you?

[02:08:14] Oh, that's a good question.

[02:08:18] I feel like it's been like something to look forward to every night or like every day.

[02:08:24] And then, yeah, I feel like having the whole podcast aspect of it is like adds to my experience

[02:08:30] for sure.

[02:08:31] Like who else?

[02:08:33] I feel like very special to like have this experience, you know.

[02:08:37] I'm like, wow, like John asked me to do the podcast.

[02:08:39] Like I'm honored to do that.

[02:08:41] Like it's made it like a hundred times better.

[02:08:44] Yeah.

[02:08:44] But yeah, it's definitely been like I feel like I've like seven months is a long time

[02:08:51] to commit to like reading a book.

[02:08:54] Absolutely.

[02:08:54] And life was like so crazy the entire time I was reading this.

[02:08:57] So it's just like it was like a comfort to like always like come back to Harry Potter at

[02:09:04] the end of the day or like listen to Harry Potter when I'm working and like hating life.

[02:09:09] And it's just like that's like something I don't know.

[02:09:12] It's been enjoyable.

[02:09:13] And I was like sitting at my table after I finished this and I was like, wow, I don't

[02:09:19] think I'm ever going to be the same after this.

[02:09:22] It's just like, I don't know.

[02:09:24] It's just a good experience.

[02:09:26] Thank you, John.

[02:09:27] From the bottom of my heart.

[02:09:30] It's been great.

[02:09:31] Yeah, honestly, like one of the largest themes of this whole entire series is friendship

[02:09:38] and like the power of friendship.

[02:09:40] And I think book series like this have the power to bring that out.

[02:09:44] And it's been more fun doing this podcast.

[02:09:48] And I can remember doing anything with anybody.

[02:09:51] I feel like I think back and I'm like, I didn't even know you at the beginning.

[02:09:55] Yeah, seriously.

[02:09:55] Like compared to now.

[02:09:56] Like I asked you to do it because I knew you're going to be like a rock solid and your

[02:09:59] reactions are good.

[02:10:00] And it's like, you know, you were like a friend back then.

[02:10:02] You weren't like, you know, a BFF.

[02:10:04] I'm like, now you're a BFF.

[02:10:06] Now you're like one of my best friends.

[02:10:07] I feel like just as podcast doing this, it's like you have been you changed my mind in so

[02:10:15] many things.

[02:10:15] You are so like smart and quick witted with half of with all the not half of all the things

[02:10:20] that you say.

[02:10:21] But I'm like so grateful that you went along with it and like just your willingness to

[02:10:28] do this podcast because I have considered it such an honor to get to know you over the

[02:10:32] last few months.

[02:10:33] It's been so enjoyable.

[02:10:35] And it's like I count you as a true and a good friend.

[02:10:39] And it's a privilege to have known you and to continue to know you.

[02:10:44] I'm very excited to keep doing way more stuff with you.

[02:10:48] It's like I am beyond ecstatic for all that.

[02:10:52] And like just your enthusiasm to do all this stuff.