Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Ch 32-33

[00:00:00] ,

[00:00:02] there's so much to talk about. I almost feel like we should just skip an intro and just jump right into it.

[00:00:05] Because I don't want to ask, what do you guys think of Snape?

[00:00:09] Just a summary.

[00:00:11] Hour and 45. That's a good point.

[00:00:13] And then, you know, we're going to go from there.

[00:00:15] So welcome to the podcast. I'm Jon.

[00:00:17] Jenn.

[00:00:18] Danny.

[00:00:19] And Kristen.

[00:00:20] This is Harry Potter.

[00:00:21] This is Harry Potter and the First Time Readers.

[00:00:24] Ogden's Fire Whiskey was spicy.

[00:00:26] Oh, that's pretty.

[00:00:30] Okay.

[00:00:32] We are on chapter 32, which is the elder one and we're doing 33 as well, which is a great

[00:00:37] chapter to the princess tale. We have a lot to talk about in each one.

[00:00:40] But can one of you guys give me a very quick summary of chapter 32, which is the elder

[00:00:45] wand?

[00:00:47] Can you do it?

[00:00:48] Yeah, I think so this chapter is when the battle is happening and the

[00:00:53] they're kind of running through the battle to get to the Wamping Willow.

[00:01:00] Oh, that's right.

[00:01:02] Then they poke the knot in the tree.

[00:01:05] They run through the corridor to get to the Shrieking Shack and they're watching

[00:01:10] through a crack in it or behind a cupboard or something.

[00:01:13] And they're watching everything go down.

[00:01:15] We have a lot to talk about.

[00:01:18] And they're watching through a crack in it or behind a cupboard or something.

[00:01:22] And they're watching everything go down with Voldemort and Snape where

[00:01:26] only Harry can see.

[00:01:28] Oh, was that true?

[00:01:29] Oh, was he under the invisibility cloak?

[00:01:31] Yeah.

[00:01:32] He was like the beginning of the tunnel.

[00:01:34] And oh, the others couldn't see.

[00:01:35] Wow, that's pretty intense.

[00:01:37] And then it's when the chapter ends when Harry goes over and Snape tells

[00:01:42] him to look in his eyes.

[00:01:44] And then he goes over and he's like, oh, I'm going to be in the

[00:01:48] chapter.

[00:01:49] And so this chapter is all the lead up to what I've been thinking

[00:01:53] about all week long.

[00:01:54] No, like seriously.

[00:01:56] It's so good though, right?

[00:01:58] Yeah.

[00:01:59] Isn't it?

[00:02:00] And I just want to tell people but no one cares.

[00:02:02] I just want to talk about it.

[00:02:04] And I was like no one even.

[00:02:06] Can you believe it?

[00:02:08] No, I literally did it.

[00:02:10] Years old.

[00:02:11] My parents dinner.

[00:02:13] I brought it up to, to, no, to every all my siblings I have seen

[00:02:18] there.

[00:02:19] And I was like, I just found out about Snape's like background.

[00:02:23] No one cared.

[00:02:27] I thought for sure Brandon would have like, he probably only

[00:02:30] saw the movies which is fine.

[00:02:32] Yeah, I know that's why when he reads the books that we

[00:02:34] get him on the podcast.

[00:02:35] He's good.

[00:02:36] Anyway, it was just funny.

[00:02:38] I just kept replaying over and over again.

[00:02:40] And then I'm like, I was right this whole time.

[00:02:43] You just want to talk to me about it.

[00:02:46] Semi-right.

[00:02:47] Well, this is the night we're going to talk about it in this.

[00:02:49] Yeah.

[00:02:50] Sorry.

[00:02:51] So it's going to be great.

[00:02:53] Okay, so one of the first little moments that happens in

[00:02:56] this chapter, I actually thought this was a fascinating one

[00:02:59] is Ron's just intense anger and grief at his brother's

[00:03:04] death.

[00:03:05] This is the line that we get.

[00:03:06] So she had pulled Ron behind a tapestry.

[00:03:09] They seem to be wrestling together.

[00:03:11] And for one mad second, Harry thought that they were

[00:03:14] embracing again.

[00:03:15] Then he saw that Hermione was trying to restrain Ron to

[00:03:18] stop him running after Percy.

[00:03:20] Listen to me.

[00:03:21] Listen, Ron, I want to help.

[00:03:23] I want to kill death eaters.

[00:03:24] His face was contorted smeared with dust and smoke

[00:03:27] and he was shaking with rage and grief.

[00:03:29] Ron were the only ones who can end it.

[00:03:31] Please run.

[00:03:32] We need the snake.

[00:03:33] Harry knew how Ron felt pursuing another Horcrux would

[00:03:36] not bring the satisfaction of a wrench.

[00:03:38] He too wanted to fight to punish them, people who had

[00:03:41] killed Fred and he wanted to find the other Weasleys

[00:03:44] or and find yet find the other Weasleys and above

[00:03:47] all make sure make quite sure that Jenny was not,

[00:03:50] but he could not permit that idea to form in his

[00:03:52] mind.

[00:03:53] What do you guys think of the Weasleys grief and

[00:03:55] what they're going through at this moment, especially

[00:03:57] Ron's in particular?

[00:03:59] They're poor family.

[00:04:02] They're taking the brunt of a lot.

[00:04:05] Seriously?

[00:04:06] Yeah, they're putting themselves at the front of

[00:04:09] these fights.

[00:04:10] Even from the beginning, like their dad, their mom.

[00:04:13] And even like taking Harry in to begin with

[00:04:16] I think they knew was not safe.

[00:04:18] So they've been risking things all along.

[00:04:21] That's why it stinks to see it.

[00:04:23] I love them because they do risk everything

[00:04:25] and even Harry's ability to have empathy

[00:04:27] with him in these moments and like he

[00:04:29] feels the same thing, but Harry still has the

[00:04:31] idea that he's like not part of the family,

[00:04:33] which he's not.

[00:04:34] But Mrs. Weasleys is like another child of

[00:04:36] his and that's why I love even the moment

[00:04:38] with that Harry.

[00:04:39] I think it's in this book that like he hugs

[00:04:41] her and tries to put it like a lot of you

[00:04:43] know, the unsaid things into that hug and

[00:04:45] for what Mrs. Weasley has gone through

[00:04:47] she's like just a great character.

[00:04:49] But man, this is so sad.

[00:04:53] And even on this point there's another

[00:04:55] line that gets mentioned after

[00:04:58] that Hagrid runs off

[00:05:01] and he seems to get

[00:05:04] like taken over by spiders, but we don't

[00:05:06] really know about anything that happens

[00:05:08] after that.

[00:05:09] Because Hagrid did.

[00:05:11] I have doubted Hagrid

[00:05:13] on many occasions for many things,

[00:05:16] but I gotta trust his animal instincts

[00:05:18] on this one.

[00:05:19] So no, it's just like I feel

[00:05:21] like I view him as childlike in a lot

[00:05:23] of ways, terrible at keeping secrets.

[00:05:28] He did send Ron and Harry

[00:05:30] and almost to their deaths to the spiders,

[00:05:32] but I actually

[00:05:36] think he is alive and well

[00:05:38] and led the spiders away and he is fine.

[00:05:40] I have confidence in that for some reason.

[00:05:43] I would be very upset

[00:05:45] if he was dead not only because of his death,

[00:05:47] but because of the injustice of it all.

[00:05:49] Yeah, for sure.

[00:05:50] To go down like that.

[00:05:52] I mean, I'm sure he would have to

[00:05:53] be a poet again.

[00:05:54] Exactly, that actually would make a lot

[00:05:56] of sense, but it would do a

[00:05:58] disservice to his character because

[00:06:00] then it would be kind of like

[00:06:02] this whole time we've been doubting

[00:06:04] when the substitute teacher comes in

[00:06:06] even Hermione is like she's kind of a

[00:06:08] better teacher.

[00:06:09] So he's not a good teacher,

[00:06:10] but he's good with animals.

[00:06:12] That's been his thing.

[00:06:13] So for him to then misjudge that

[00:06:15] would be weird unless we find out

[00:06:17] somehow that he knew this was what it

[00:06:19] was going to be and he wanted to be

[00:06:21] food to his critters and he wanted

[00:06:23] to lead them away in the process.

[00:06:25] So he's going to be like a little okay with it.

[00:06:27] But I refuse to believe that he's dead

[00:06:30] because he's high on my do not kill list.

[00:06:33] Yeah.

[00:06:34] JK, if you're listening.

[00:06:36] Change the text if it goes that way.

[00:06:39] You guys were pretty devastated with

[00:06:41] Lupin and Tox, right?

[00:06:43] Yeah.

[00:06:44] That one kind of comes out of nowhere.

[00:06:46] It was just like boom, they're gone,

[00:06:47] they're dead and their bodies are lying there.

[00:06:49] What in the world?

[00:06:51] So yeah, that was really harsh.

[00:06:53] It's going to happen to their kid.

[00:06:55] I know.

[00:06:56] So then I'm thinking.

[00:06:57] I feel like I expected her to die though

[00:06:59] once she said like where's Lupin?

[00:07:01] Yeah.

[00:07:02] I was like you're risking everything

[00:07:04] to find him.

[00:07:06] Yeah.

[00:07:07] I don't know, I feel like that's so hard

[00:07:09] because it's like you're a new mom

[00:07:11] but I get it just,

[00:07:14] I don't know, I wasn't surprised.

[00:07:16] And Tox, dad has already been killed too.

[00:07:19] Yeah, so only the grandma is alive.

[00:07:21] Grandma and baby now, right?

[00:07:23] Yeah.

[00:07:26] Yeah, just really sad.

[00:07:29] And the fact that it went by so quickly

[00:07:31] but it was good timing for it to happen

[00:07:34] as we're reading because Harry walks us through it

[00:07:37] and kind of says we don't have time for grief.

[00:07:40] I'm saying we is if we're like running with them

[00:07:42] because that's how it feels.

[00:07:43] He's like I don't have time for grief.

[00:07:45] I don't have time to process this.

[00:07:46] I'm going to bury these emotions for now.

[00:07:48] There are more important things.

[00:07:50] And even as a reader I'm like,

[00:07:52] all right, yeah, you're right Harry.

[00:07:53] We're going to bury these emotions

[00:07:54] and move on more important stuff.

[00:07:56] And then on we go on the mission.

[00:07:58] So it was guided but...

[00:08:01] That's why it's tough because she doesn't give you

[00:08:03] any time to process because the characters

[00:08:04] don't give any time to process.

[00:08:05] They die and then we have to get

[00:08:07] to the Shrieking Shack no matter what.

[00:08:09] So these lines come out of nowhere

[00:08:12] and then you're like dang,

[00:08:14] even like the lavender brown moment

[00:08:16] she's like bitten by this werewolf.

[00:08:18] And then all of a sudden Fenrir Greyback dies.

[00:08:21] It gets smashed in the head and like doesn't move anymore.

[00:08:24] Maybe just knocked out.

[00:08:26] And then you're just like next thing happens.

[00:08:28] Yeah, and we did see there was a word of hope in there.

[00:08:31] I forget what it was about like she was still alive.

[00:08:35] Something that told us she was still alive

[00:08:37] but not good.

[00:08:40] So yeah.

[00:08:44] So we get to the next section

[00:08:47] where they're at the Wamping Willow

[00:08:49] and we have this line which I wanted to ask

[00:08:51] if you see if this line is familiar.

[00:08:53] Where is the first...

[00:08:54] Because we heard this line before.

[00:08:55] It says, how are we going to get in Pantedron?

[00:08:59] I can see the place if we just had

[00:09:02] Crookshanks again.

[00:09:04] Crookshanks we used Hermione.

[00:09:06] Bent double clutching her chest.

[00:09:08] Are you a wizard or what?

[00:09:12] Do you remember where we get that line?

[00:09:14] The first time we got that line?

[00:09:16] Hermione says it.

[00:09:18] You're close.

[00:09:20] She gets it said too.

[00:09:22] Oh wait, does Ron say it?

[00:09:24] But what was the context?

[00:09:26] Ron says this to Hermione.

[00:09:28] I can't ever vaguely remember.

[00:09:30] In the very first book when they're in the plant.

[00:09:35] Getting out of the devil's snare.

[00:09:39] She's like oh we really need some light

[00:09:41] but there's no light in this and Ron goes

[00:09:43] are you a witch or not?

[00:09:45] I love it because Hermione's been

[00:09:47] storing up this line to show back down.

[00:09:49] Just waiting to get her ass so great.

[00:09:51] I totally miss that.

[00:09:53] It's a great line.

[00:09:56] What did happen to Crookshanks?

[00:09:59] I'm still holding out hope Crookshanks.

[00:10:02] I'm just trying to...

[00:10:04] No!

[00:10:06] What happened? He just ran away.

[00:10:08] We don't really know.

[00:10:10] Just during the battle in Castle's Castle.

[00:10:12] It's like some character.

[00:10:14] It's really important.

[00:10:16] Save Harry's life.

[00:10:18] Go on his chest.

[00:10:20] Anyway.

[00:10:22] Yeah, it saves him up.

[00:10:24] Great because it's in the Shrieking Shack

[00:10:26] so maybe Crookshanks has been

[00:10:28] in the Shrieking Shack the whole time.

[00:10:30] What do you think about the information

[00:10:32] that Voldemort is telling Snape?

[00:10:34] So it's really essentially all about the elder one.

[00:10:36] Yeah.

[00:10:38] I think it's really important.

[00:10:40] It's really essentially all about the elder one.

[00:10:42] Yeah.

[00:10:44] Are you asking if we believe it?

[00:10:46] Yeah, do you believe it?

[00:10:48] And is it like...

[00:10:50] I guess do you believe it but maybe the main question is...

[00:10:52] Is it still? Is it actually the elder one?

[00:10:54] Okay, is it actually the elder one

[00:10:56] and is Voldemort the rightful owner?

[00:10:58] Because if you believe it then he's the rightful owner of the elder one.

[00:11:00] That won't...

[00:11:02] I mean if it is...

[00:11:04] We're assuming it is the elder one.

[00:11:06] We are assuming...

[00:11:08] And that Snape didn't know that Dumbledore had the elder one?

[00:11:10] That's what I find weird.

[00:11:12] Because he would then...

[00:11:14] Or he knew he had the elder one

[00:11:16] but didn't realize what came with it?

[00:11:18] No, everyone knows about it.

[00:11:20] Because he killed Dumbledore

[00:11:22] so he would have known

[00:11:24] he's the rightful owner.

[00:11:26] Snape doesn't know that much.

[00:11:28] Now we know he doesn't even know what the other one is.

[00:11:30] Everyone seems to know about this elder one, no?

[00:11:32] Oh, and know that it exists, yeah.

[00:11:34] And then whoever defeats it gets a...

[00:11:36] I feel like, yeah, that's at least wizard lore.

[00:11:38] Or takes it.

[00:11:40] I feel like it's the kind of thing that would just escape your mind

[00:11:42] and you're not thinking about it actively.

[00:11:44] Yeah.

[00:11:46] Dumbledore is just wise too

[00:11:48] and he just doesn't tell anybody that he has the elder one.

[00:11:50] So when Snape kills him,

[00:11:52] really Dumbledore...

[00:11:54] These two next two chapters are interesting

[00:11:56] because it doesn't make Dumbledore more manipulative

[00:11:58] and sleazy in your head

[00:12:00] that he's setting Snape up for everything here.

[00:12:02] So if Dumbledore owns the elder one

[00:12:04] and Snape's about to kill him

[00:12:06] but doesn't know that he owns the elder one

[00:12:08] and all of a sudden Snape's going to become the rightful owner

[00:12:10] of the elder one and Voldemort is going to know that

[00:12:12] Snape is just a middleman that Dumbledore is setting up

[00:12:14] so that he can die

[00:12:16] or he can be a buffer from getting the elder one

[00:12:18] to maybe the last minute or something like that.

[00:12:20] Right.

[00:12:22] So that's, again, that is Voldemort's logic.

[00:12:24] Is there flaw in that logic?

[00:12:26] Is he right?

[00:12:28] As I was reading it,

[00:12:30] it kind of sounded right

[00:12:32] and I was trying to think of a way that it could be wrong

[00:12:34] and I just can't come up with anything

[00:12:36] that's satisfying.

[00:12:38] You know, because even the

[00:12:40] behind, I think it was

[00:12:42] Dumbledore's portrait, there was like a hidden area

[00:12:44] where the sword was.

[00:12:46] It's like, could there have been a wand back there?

[00:12:48] Could there be something else in Dumbledore's office

[00:12:50] where you could hide a wand

[00:12:52] that Dumbledore was just using his original wand

[00:12:54] and the elder wand was kept safe somehow?

[00:12:56] Maybe.

[00:12:58] But I think then

[00:13:00] as I'm rereading

[00:13:02] this next chapter

[00:13:04] about Dumbledore and Snape

[00:13:06] and some of these memories

[00:13:08] Dumbledore wanted Snape to be the one

[00:13:10] to kill him.

[00:13:12] At first it was partially, he explains it

[00:13:14] as he didn't think

[00:13:16] Malfoy was ready.

[00:13:18] He didn't want his soul to be ripped apart.

[00:13:20] Yep.

[00:13:22] But there could have been ulterior motive

[00:13:24] to say Snape

[00:13:26] needs to be the one who

[00:13:28] has the elder wand.

[00:13:30] And then if that's the case, I think it would be

[00:13:32] Voldemort's at this point.

[00:13:34] Oh, because then

[00:13:36] it could have been Greyback or anyone else

[00:13:38] that would have worse.

[00:13:40] Well yeah, he said

[00:13:42] Greyback or Bellatrix.

[00:13:44] And if they found out that they had

[00:13:46] the wand.

[00:13:48] Again, he doesn't say anything about the wand

[00:13:50] in there. No, but I wonder if that's why.

[00:13:52] That could have been Dumbledore's plan.

[00:13:54] And to be honest, it did make Dumbledore

[00:13:56] feel kind of manipulative in these chapters.

[00:13:58] Yeah, we're talking about the next one.

[00:14:00] Yikes.

[00:14:02] But it also feels like

[00:14:04] Dumbledore knows way more than we ever

[00:14:06] gave him credit for. We just hoped he knew

[00:14:08] this much and he still knew more than we ever imagined.

[00:14:10] And even in these chapters

[00:14:12] where he saw everything coming.

[00:14:14] So...

[00:14:16] Yeah, but maybe he still doesn't fully understand

[00:14:18] the elder wand.

[00:14:20] Dumbledore?

[00:14:22] Yeah, does anyone actually understand it?

[00:14:24] Especially with that kind of power?

[00:14:26] Or in Voldemort's

[00:14:28] like, insane

[00:14:30] mind.

[00:14:32] So who at this

[00:14:34] point

[00:14:36] we are...

[00:14:38] I mean you guys might not trust it, but

[00:14:40] we are led to believe that

[00:14:42] Voldemort is 100% the true owner of the elder wand

[00:14:44] because he kills Snape who used to be the true owner of the elder wand.

[00:14:46] Right, okay.

[00:14:48] Dumbledore who used to be the true owner of the elder wand.

[00:14:50] Are there any other possibilities?

[00:14:52] Yeah, for sure.

[00:14:54] Because we don't know how it all works.

[00:14:56] But Draco could be the rightful owner.

[00:14:58] How?

[00:15:00] Because he did expeliarmus.

[00:15:02] So he disarmed...

[00:15:04] Is in my mind similar

[00:15:06] or actually defeating someone.

[00:15:08] So I thought well maybe

[00:15:10] that was it.

[00:15:12] And it's also I'm just trying to think

[00:15:14] in the process it doesn't feel

[00:15:16] as satisfying to me

[00:15:18] that Snape was the rightful owner

[00:15:20] of it

[00:15:22] but was killed

[00:15:24] with it.

[00:15:26] It just feels like he wasn't using

[00:15:28] the wand. He never

[00:15:30] actually took ownership

[00:15:32] of it. So

[00:15:34] defeating him

[00:15:36] I actually thought that

[00:15:38] the wand would go back

[00:15:40] if it worked that way.

[00:15:42] Like it would become neutral again?

[00:15:44] It wouldn't go against Snape.

[00:15:46] Like if he used

[00:15:48] that wand.

[00:15:50] Or it would just go

[00:15:52] to... I don't know. I guess I have to give it

[00:15:54] like a magnet. Like nope, I'm not your owner.

[00:15:56] Yeah, yeah.

[00:15:58] But I actually thought that's what Voldemort accounted for

[00:16:00] and he didn't attack Snape directly.

[00:16:02] He released Nagini

[00:16:04] and Nagini did the attacking

[00:16:06] because she didn't want to risk

[00:16:08] the wand might not be capable

[00:16:10] of defeating its owner.

[00:16:12] That's why I thought he used Nagini

[00:16:14] instead.

[00:16:16] But then I'm surprised that

[00:16:18] Snape couldn't defeat Nagini.

[00:16:20] I know. In hindsight

[00:16:22] now I'm like, wait, he couldn't

[00:16:24] see that coming from Voldemort.

[00:16:26] He couldn't prevent it.

[00:16:28] Processing everything

[00:16:30] because he never thought maybe Voldemort would kill him.

[00:16:32] But he didn't see a betrayal coming.

[00:16:34] I guess... Well

[00:16:36] we didn't either but it makes sense

[00:16:38] now that he was

[00:16:40] looking for

[00:16:42] a way of making the elder wand work

[00:16:44] and we love that it's not working

[00:16:46] but that's the thing Snape didn't realize it wasn't working.

[00:16:48] Maybe he thought...

[00:16:50] Do you think he knew about it though?

[00:16:52] I feel like that wasn't even in his realm.

[00:16:56] Did Snape actually know

[00:16:58] that Voldemort was on the hunt for the elder wand

[00:17:00] and that? Yeah, fair.

[00:17:02] Did he even know he went to a double doors grave

[00:17:04] and took the wand? I don't know.

[00:17:06] He seems to. Because he was busy.

[00:17:08] How does that work?

[00:17:10] The only thing you get in this chapter

[00:17:12] is that

[00:17:14] they're having the conversation.

[00:17:16] Snape and Voldemort are having

[00:17:18] the conversation about this wand.

[00:17:20] So Snape at least knows

[00:17:22] at this point in this book we at least know

[00:17:24] that Snape knows that this is a powerful wand.

[00:17:26] More powerful

[00:17:28] than other wands

[00:17:30] that he's experienced.

[00:17:32] Because he's like, I thought for sure that this is going to be the one

[00:17:34] that could defeat Harry

[00:17:38] but it's like any other

[00:17:40] wand and Snape's like, no you've done extraordinary magic with this one.

[00:17:42] It's been great.

[00:17:44] And he's like, no I've done normal magic

[00:17:46] but I'm just an extraordinary wizard.

[00:17:48] But I'm just great. Yeah, he's a little

[00:17:50] braggy guy.

[00:17:52] So Snape at least knows that it's somewhat powerful

[00:17:54] but then his...

[00:17:56] This is his logic. Let me read you

[00:17:58] even just these two lines.

[00:18:00] Because this is one

[00:18:02] where you kind of read it back and you're like

[00:18:04] oh maybe that's why he needed to...

[00:18:06] why he said this.

[00:18:08] The resistance is crumbling

[00:18:10] and it's doing so without your help.

[00:18:12] Said Voldemort in his high clear voice.

[00:18:14] Skiilled wizard though you are Severus

[00:18:16] I do not think you will make much of a difference now.

[00:18:18] We are almost there.

[00:18:20] Almost.

[00:18:22] Let me find the boy.

[00:18:24] Let me bring you Potter. I know I can find him my lord.

[00:18:26] Please.

[00:18:28] And now you read that line back and you're like why did he say that?

[00:18:30] Because he probably wanted to give Harry the memories.

[00:18:32] Because of what?

[00:18:34] Because of what has happened in the next chapter.

[00:18:36] So like he doesn't want to go find him for

[00:18:38] anything for Voldemort's purposes.

[00:18:40] He wants to go get Harry so that he can deliver

[00:18:42] his memories to Harry.

[00:18:44] Because Dumbledore said once Nagini is

[00:18:46] at safe

[00:18:48] at Voldemort's side at all times

[00:18:50] that's how you know it's safe to tell Harry

[00:18:52] what happened.

[00:18:54] This is the next line where like Voldemort gives him

[00:18:56] all the information and I love it too because

[00:18:58] we were like

[00:19:00] this chapter makes you pissed off at Voldemort

[00:19:02] for withholding the information for so long.

[00:19:04] He's dangling this carrot in front of Snape for so long

[00:19:06] and then finally he tells him

[00:19:08] and he says Snape did not speak.

[00:19:10] Perhaps you already know it.

[00:19:12] You are a clever man after all Severus.

[00:19:14] You have been a good and faithful servant

[00:19:16] and I regret what must happen.

[00:19:18] My lord, the Elder One cannot serve me

[00:19:20] properly Severus because I am not a true master.

[00:19:22] The Elder

[00:19:24] one belongs to the wizard who killed its last owner.

[00:19:26] You killed Albus Dumbledore.

[00:19:28] While you live Severus

[00:19:30] the Elder One cannot truly be mine.

[00:19:32] My lord, Snape protested

[00:19:34] raising his wand.

[00:19:36] It cannot be any other way said Voldemort.

[00:19:38] I must master the wand, Severus.

[00:19:40] Master the wand and I master Potter at last.

[00:19:42] Voldemort swiped the air with his Elder Wand

[00:19:44] and did nothing to Snape

[00:19:46] who for a split second seemed to think that he had been reprieved.

[00:19:48] But then Voldemort's intention became clear

[00:19:50] and the snake's cage was rolling through the air.

[00:19:52] Before Snape could do anything more

[00:19:54] than yell it had encased him

[00:19:56] head and shoulders

[00:19:58] Voldemort's snook and parcel tongue

[00:20:00] killed.

[00:20:02] So that's Voldemort's logic.

[00:20:04] Because Snape killed him

[00:20:06] he has his rightful owner

[00:20:08] the Elder Wand if he kills Snape

[00:20:10] and you guys were even mentioning

[00:20:12] maybe he doesn't want to use the wand

[00:20:14] even in the tale of the three brothers

[00:20:16] the way that the guy won the wand

[00:20:18] from one of the brothers is he slit his throat.

[00:20:20] So maybe you can't really use the wand

[00:20:22] against the rightful owner

[00:20:24] but then that goes to the point

[00:20:26] so if Voldemort knows this

[00:20:28] then maybe that's why Snape is the true rightful owner of the Elder Wand

[00:20:32] because he was disarmed and he wasn't really using the wand against them

[00:20:35] he killed him without a wand.

[00:20:37] Which might make him the Voldemort's rightful owner

[00:20:40] and

[00:20:42] I guess there are enough

[00:20:44] open ends here

[00:20:46] that that

[00:20:48] could still be okay.

[00:20:52] I just still think of the

[00:20:54] when Voldemort goes to the

[00:20:56] prison where Grindel

[00:20:58] whatever

[00:21:00] was

[00:21:02] and he

[00:21:04] like

[00:21:06] laughed at him

[00:21:08] and said I never had it

[00:21:10] and I know that we just assumed

[00:21:12] it's Dumbledore but I feel like there's another

[00:21:14] maybe there's

[00:21:16] another path that the wand took?

[00:21:18] I don't know

[00:21:20] maybe that's not fair to him

[00:21:22] I'm just trying to see

[00:21:24] if he's even Snape diver or not

[00:21:26] even though it seems like that anyway

[00:21:28] exactly that's what's so funny

[00:21:30] at the moment we're like

[00:21:32] oh yeah nice one less person

[00:21:34] they played each other this is great

[00:21:36] I also thought Harry was going to jump out

[00:21:38] now that Nagini wasn't in the cage

[00:21:40] I'm like right now it's perfect

[00:21:42] Nagini still was in the cage

[00:21:44] was in the cage but then Snape was in the cage

[00:21:46] and then they went out and Snape got a tricking push

[00:21:48] so it wasn't actually a good time to attack

[00:21:50] so

[00:21:52] it just feels so strange but I guess Harry doesn't want to

[00:21:54] reveal

[00:21:56] I feel like that would have been perfect though

[00:21:58] because Snape can help you defeat Voldemort

[00:22:00] Voldemort doesn't have the Elder One power

[00:22:02] and like it would have been perfect

[00:22:04] but if Nagini was still there

[00:22:06] it wouldn't have made sense

[00:22:08] and Harry didn't trust Snape at all

[00:22:10] obviously at this point

[00:22:12] so it would be like jumping out

[00:22:14] while three of his greatest enemies

[00:22:16] are there

[00:22:18] so it just stinks again in hindsight

[00:22:20] we're like if they just communicated

[00:22:22] a little better, a little sooner

[00:22:24] it is just so good as far as a writing perspective

[00:22:26] is concerned too because you guys

[00:22:28] as soon as Snape died you're like

[00:22:30] about time he gets his own

[00:22:32] and then the next line he pulls Harry in

[00:22:34] and says look at me

[00:22:36] and you're like

[00:22:38] what the heck is going on?

[00:22:40] we're missing something

[00:22:42] what is going on here

[00:22:44] it's great writing

[00:22:46] it's such great writing

[00:22:48] it never really sucks

[00:22:50] because then he literally kept

[00:22:52] all secrets

[00:22:54] no because like he could have had Snape tell him sooner

[00:22:56] and then they both

[00:22:58] could have went against Voldemort

[00:23:00] but no

[00:23:02] that was Dumbledore's idea

[00:23:04] but why right then

[00:23:06] well Dumbledore was trying to play it safe

[00:23:08] and still like well we'll get into it in the next chapter

[00:23:10] you're saying you don't really trust

[00:23:12] Dumbledore's judgment

[00:23:14] Dumbledore didn't trust Snape

[00:23:16] he didn't want all the secrets in one basket

[00:23:18] so

[00:23:20] it's weird

[00:23:22] but that's what also makes me think

[00:23:24] he doesn't know everything

[00:23:26] does Harry

[00:23:28] or not in that chapter yet

[00:23:30] does Voldemort really regret this

[00:23:32] because that was interesting too

[00:23:34] he doesn't regret anything

[00:23:36] could he regret this

[00:23:38] I only say that because

[00:23:40] regret is one of the things that can

[00:23:42] undo a horcrux

[00:23:44] so then I was like is this have some kind of

[00:23:46] horcrux implication the true regret

[00:23:48] but if you're saying

[00:23:50] you regret something while you're

[00:23:52] doing it it's just spoken

[00:23:54] regret he doesn't regret it

[00:23:56] because he's literally doing it

[00:23:58] I really regret this boom but true remorse

[00:24:00] you wouldn't do the thing

[00:24:02] I thought it was only if you

[00:24:04] were making a horcrux

[00:24:06] after that kill so it's not like he made a

[00:24:08] horcrux so like the actual kill

[00:24:10] that made the horcrux

[00:24:12] it's almost like remorse

[00:24:14] and regret for that maybe that specific

[00:24:16] person like he maybe after 20 years

[00:24:18] you'd still feel remorse and regret

[00:24:20] but it has to be maybe the original victims

[00:24:22] of it or something like that

[00:24:24] what if it's Harry

[00:24:26] what?

[00:24:28] what if it's Harry he feels remorse

[00:24:30] regret

[00:24:32] he created his own monster

[00:24:34] so maybe

[00:24:36] so he might actually regret it

[00:24:38] and undo the scar horcrux

[00:24:40] but he still doesn't realize that

[00:24:42] and that's why part of me thinks it can be

[00:24:44] the elder wand

[00:24:46] because now he can use

[00:24:48] the undefeatable elder wand to

[00:24:50] defeat himself through Harry kind of

[00:24:54] I feel like it's going to backfire on him

[00:24:58] I feel like there are still some

[00:25:00] missing pieces to this puzzle

[00:25:02] well good thing there's a few chapters left

[00:25:04] good thing

[00:25:06] I'm probably going to be annoyed

[00:25:08] well you know what it's also strange

[00:25:10] that Nagini left him

[00:25:12] alive

[00:25:14] he said kill and Nagini

[00:25:16] waited

[00:25:18] long enough to have him

[00:25:20] basically be dead but then moved on

[00:25:22] and so it still

[00:25:24] is very fortunate for our purposes

[00:25:28] and maybe Nagini waited till his

[00:25:30] heart was not beating and he literally only had

[00:25:32] 10 more seconds

[00:25:34] of oxygen in his brain and that he used

[00:25:36] to pull Harry in

[00:25:38] but it still felt like

[00:25:40] I'm just thinking

[00:25:42] of the double tap technique

[00:25:44] you just make sure in some cases

[00:25:46] when you betray someone

[00:25:48] nor in all zombie movies

[00:25:50] you always double tap

[00:25:52] I don't know what that means

[00:25:54] oh it's like when someone's down

[00:25:56] you just one more bang

[00:25:58] for make sure so there's no chance of

[00:26:00] I'm thinking I'm like what is double tap

[00:26:02] and

[00:26:04] I'm glad

[00:26:06] he didn't in this case

[00:26:08] because we get a lot of juicy

[00:26:10] information I know

[00:26:12] if that didn't happen

[00:26:14] we also now know

[00:26:16] Dumbledore's portrait has a lot of

[00:26:18] information yeah so

[00:26:20] the portrait seem to be gone that's the only issue

[00:26:22] yeah I'm like where are they because I want Harry to talk to that

[00:26:24] Dumbledore portrait and debrief

[00:26:26] and yell a little bit

[00:26:28] destroy the ops a little bit

[00:26:30] this is the last

[00:26:32] a little paragraph in the chapter and it's great

[00:26:34] says Harry took off the invisibility cloak

[00:26:36] and looked down upon the man he hated

[00:26:38] who's widening black eyes found Harry as he tried to speak

[00:26:40] Harry bent over him

[00:26:42] and Snape seizing the front of his robes

[00:26:44] and pulled him close

[00:26:46] a terrible rasping gurgling noise

[00:26:48] issued from Snape's throat

[00:26:50] take it

[00:26:52] something more than blood was leaking from Snape

[00:26:54] silvery blue

[00:26:56] either gas or liquid it gushed from his mouth

[00:26:58] he was looking at his ears and eyes and Harry knew what it was

[00:27:00] but did not know what to do

[00:27:02] a flask conjured from thin air

[00:27:04] was thrust into his shaking hands by Hermione

[00:27:06] Harry lifted the silvery substance into it with his wand

[00:27:08] when the flask was full to the brim

[00:27:10] and Snape looked as though there was no blood left in him

[00:27:12] his grip on Harry's robe

[00:27:14] slackened

[00:27:16] look at me

[00:27:18] he whispered

[00:27:20] the green eyes found the black

[00:27:22] but after a second something in the depths of the dark pair

[00:27:24] seemed to vanish

[00:27:26] the man fixed

[00:27:28] blank and empty

[00:27:30] the man holding Harry thudded to the floor

[00:27:32] and Snape moved no more

[00:27:34] it's a great end to this chapter

[00:27:36] because you're like you have to keep reading

[00:27:38] you're like what the heck is going on

[00:27:40] so let's go to the next chapter

[00:27:42] which is a princess tale

[00:27:44] unless you have anything quick Danny in this elder one

[00:27:46] nope that was it

[00:27:48] alright the princess tale which is really one of the best

[00:27:50] top three chapters

[00:27:52] we're going up to the top three chapters here

[00:27:54] it's great but it is just the information

[00:27:56] download on Snape and what

[00:27:58] he was doing behind the scenes with Dumbledore

[00:28:00] and with Petunia and Lily and all this kind of stuff

[00:28:02] but let's talk about this from the start

[00:28:04] what do you think

[00:28:06] about the relationship

[00:28:08] I mean this is where we learn about Thompson Lupin for sure

[00:28:10] and this is kind of

[00:28:12] where you get like a little bit more

[00:28:14] of that information but what do you

[00:28:16] think of the relationship the initial memory

[00:28:18] between Snape, Lily

[00:28:20] and Toony

[00:28:24] that's like kind of cute

[00:28:26] when he's like the creepy nerd

[00:28:28] Toony's a good

[00:28:30] nickname yeah Toony's a great nickname

[00:28:36] he's like actually pretty cute

[00:28:38] in the little picture

[00:28:40] chapter yeah you're right

[00:28:42] I think that's kind of weird

[00:28:44] to now wonder

[00:28:46] how different Snape became

[00:28:48] through it all because

[00:28:50] we see a different kind of Snape

[00:28:52] here where there's like a

[00:28:54] confidence to him

[00:28:56] Harry said something like

[00:28:58] I don't know like distinguished or something like

[00:29:00] that felt weird because it's not a word we would

[00:29:02] ever use to describe him

[00:29:04] so it just feels weird

[00:29:06] and kind of cool to see

[00:29:08] the history of him but then

[00:29:10] sad to see what he turned into

[00:29:12] yeah I know

[00:29:14] yeah I can't wait to talk

[00:29:16] we're gonna have long discussions probably

[00:29:18] at another time for like

[00:29:20] if he's good or bad

[00:29:22] that's what I'm stuck questioning this whole time

[00:29:24] because he's

[00:29:26] a pretty reprehensible person but

[00:29:28] on the good side or the bad side that's always the question

[00:29:30] but there's still a lot of debate in

[00:29:32] the Harry Potter world

[00:29:34] whether his love was legitimate or not

[00:29:36] we'll talk about that toward the end a bit

[00:29:38] but at the beginning of this

[00:29:40] it is just interesting to see the difference

[00:29:42] like he has maybe some bias to him

[00:29:44] but it's not maybe so

[00:29:46] ingrained in him yet and he's trying to make his own decisions

[00:29:48] on things he's still a little bit of

[00:29:50] a bully with Petunia like

[00:29:52] the branch getting knocked down and hitting

[00:29:54] Petunia he still has this implicit thing in him

[00:29:56] but like Lily

[00:29:58] his liking

[00:30:00] of Lily at this point is trying to iron this out

[00:30:02] of him yeah but

[00:30:04] as

[00:30:06] Kristen might dissect

[00:30:08] his childhood it sounds

[00:30:10] like he has a terrible upbringing like his parents

[00:30:12] are fighting all the time

[00:30:14] and so I wonder

[00:30:16] if that played into

[00:30:18] his decision making also

[00:30:20] just getting out of

[00:30:22] there's one line

[00:30:24] about James that

[00:30:26] you like love

[00:30:28] but you hate is that

[00:30:30] he looked like he came from a family that

[00:30:32] like truly

[00:30:34] doided on him and cared for him

[00:30:36] whereas Snape you don't get that at all, Snape is wearing old baggy clothes

[00:30:38] like his mother looks stern

[00:30:40] like she doesn't want to be there at the train

[00:30:42] his dad's not really even in the picture but they're fighting all the time

[00:30:44] his dad is in the train station Snape is so excited to leave

[00:30:46] on the Hogwarts Express to get away from his family

[00:30:48] James excited for a different reason

[00:30:50] that he can like fulfill his destiny

[00:30:52] or whatever like that but at the end of this chapter

[00:30:54] you kind of hate James and serious as well

[00:30:56] a little bit I know

[00:30:58] but you feel bad initially

[00:31:00] in this chapter for Snape because of his upbringing

[00:31:02] he doesn't seem like he comes from a good place

[00:31:04] he comes from Spinner's Inn which seems like the ghetto

[00:31:06] of this little place like Petunia's like oh you're from

[00:31:08] that area this sucks

[00:31:10] and also

[00:31:12] was that where we saw him make the unbreakable vow

[00:31:14] yeah

[00:31:16] so then

[00:31:18] so that was his childhood home

[00:31:20] probably

[00:31:22] well because they operated to the river

[00:31:24] where we saw

[00:31:26] the chapter was Spinner's Inn

[00:31:28] I don't remember we got the name of it or not

[00:31:30] it was a unique chapter

[00:31:32] because that's the only other place we've seen

[00:31:34] Snape at a different location pretty much

[00:31:36] he was like at his home

[00:31:38] where he doesn't even live at Hogwarts

[00:31:40] he goes

[00:31:42] and it felt like a weird place

[00:31:44] too in general

[00:31:46] we were left like this is not normal

[00:31:50] and now I'm curious where

[00:31:52] Lily and Petunia grew up

[00:31:54] I think the chapter left me with a lot of questions

[00:31:56] about the next generation too

[00:31:58] and maybe it's

[00:32:00] Star Wars things or something

[00:32:02] I just kept wondering if there's more connections here

[00:32:04] and

[00:32:06] I feel like there has to be

[00:32:08] or I can just get rid of that thought

[00:32:10] and she's left it quiet on purpose because we're supposed to focus on the people we know

[00:32:12] but

[00:32:14] I still am looking for more

[00:32:16] because

[00:32:18] it feels like the motivations

[00:32:20] are still unclear

[00:32:22] and I'm just like

[00:32:24] Snape's dad

[00:32:26] who is he? Why is he distant?

[00:32:28] and then even

[00:32:30] Harry talked about Lily

[00:32:32] saying goodbye to her parents

[00:32:34] and he said her parents

[00:32:36] not like my grandparents

[00:32:38] so he has no knowledge of them

[00:32:40] he doesn't recognize them

[00:32:42] I'm like that's so weird

[00:32:44] he never even saw pictures

[00:32:46] Petunia doesn't talk to them are they even alive?

[00:32:48] anyways

[00:32:50] lots to think about this week

[00:32:52] after recovering emotionally from reading it

[00:32:54] and reading it again today

[00:32:56] just to like dig into the details

[00:32:58] lots of weird little things like that

[00:33:00] so we'll keep reading and I have little notes on it but

[00:33:02] no it's good

[00:33:04] that's kind of what you feel and one of the things

[00:33:06] that you're supposed to get in this chapter

[00:33:08] is just a comparison of childhood between all

[00:33:10] the characters essentially that have lived a childhood

[00:33:12] it's like

[00:33:14] one of the defining themes of this entire

[00:33:16] series is just

[00:33:18] the choices that you make to find who you are

[00:33:20] and it's a like Harry grew up

[00:33:22] in a similar situation

[00:33:24] to Snape

[00:33:26] but he turned out in a different way

[00:33:30] it's obviously different because Snape

[00:33:32] you guys even mentioned his confidence

[00:33:34] so Snape was very proud of being

[00:33:36] a wizard to start Harry didn't know he was one

[00:33:38] so maybe Harry would have been

[00:33:40] like Lockhart if

[00:33:42] he grew up in the wizarding world and was all sorts of like crazy

[00:33:44] like this he would have been like the fame would have gotten

[00:33:46] to his head

[00:33:48] but they're all

[00:33:50] even Voldemort, Ron

[00:33:52] Harry, Hermione their upbringing

[00:33:54] is different but it's really like the choices that they make

[00:33:56] after this that really define who they are

[00:33:58] so

[00:34:00] it's great

[00:34:02] there's the one section in this chapter in the beginning

[00:34:04] of this chapter

[00:34:06] sorry motorcycles gone by

[00:34:08] or loud cars it's intense

[00:34:10] what do you guys think about Petunia

[00:34:12] writing the letter to Dumbledore

[00:34:14] respect

[00:34:16] that would be you guys

[00:34:18] please let us in

[00:34:22] I've already written my letter it hasn't gotten there yet

[00:34:24] unfortunately but

[00:34:26] it just was funny like they must have

[00:34:28] been in the tourist office

[00:34:30] and it just shows

[00:34:32] another side of Petunia and then confirms

[00:34:34] more of the bitterness

[00:34:36] and where it came from

[00:34:38] because she wanted that

[00:34:40] and then again it even makes us feel bad when she's saying

[00:34:42] all these mean things on the platform

[00:34:44] nine three quarters it's just because

[00:34:46] she's jealous and it's a coping mechanism

[00:34:48] she's losing

[00:34:50] her best friend that she has already

[00:34:52] been slowly losing since Snape came into their lives

[00:34:54] and so she presents

[00:34:56] a wizard kind because of it

[00:34:58] and it does make sense and it is sad

[00:35:00] and then she's not able to mend the relationship at all

[00:35:04] but there's even this like this

[00:35:06] again she's an interesting character because

[00:35:08] in the

[00:35:10] I think Petunia was doing the tiniest

[00:35:12] things imaginable to maybe try to mend the relationship

[00:35:14] like the one little note

[00:35:16] that we got in Lily's letter

[00:35:18] was like Petunia sent me like what a horrible vase

[00:35:20] or something like that some terrible present

[00:35:22] maybe Petunia was trying to do

[00:35:24] small little things maybe make

[00:35:26] small little bridges but when they died

[00:35:28] she just like firmed it up and she just hated wizards

[00:35:30] didn't want anything to do with them

[00:35:32] and not that it justifies anything that she's done

[00:35:34] obviously but you're like

[00:35:36] you understand her more

[00:35:38] and you know why

[00:35:40] she did the things that she did

[00:35:42] just makes her like almost more sad of a character

[00:35:44] to be honest

[00:35:48] but this is one of the next things that we got

[00:35:50] and this was one of the questions that I kept asking

[00:35:52] you when we were at this chapter

[00:35:54] but you remember Snape's worst memory of that chapter

[00:35:56] why was that his worst memory

[00:36:02] cause Lily chose James over Snape

[00:36:04] yep and

[00:36:06] it was his fault

[00:36:08] yep and so he

[00:36:10] knows that was the moment everything changed

[00:36:12] yeah that's the moment he lost Lily

[00:36:14] too yeah

[00:36:16] cause right after that you get this whole discussion

[00:36:18] on like

[00:36:20] them talking and

[00:36:22] Lily essentially like leaves him

[00:36:24] that's like the end of their friendship really

[00:36:26] cause he just is going down this path

[00:36:28] that she can't follow

[00:36:30] and that's where he loses Lily

[00:36:32] you think you would turn back

[00:36:34] if you really cared for Lily

[00:36:36] how so

[00:36:38] turn back in what ways

[00:36:40] alright alright I won't use dark magic

[00:36:42] I'm gonna stick to like Hogwarts way

[00:36:44] well yeah

[00:36:46] and that's why we're left wondering was he good or bad

[00:36:48] because he became a death eater

[00:36:50] well because then you become bitter maybe

[00:36:52] I don't know he's very self serving

[00:36:54] yeah it was about

[00:36:56] what he wanted

[00:36:58] he was not ready to serve

[00:37:00] he probably didn't have choices when he was a kid either

[00:37:02] so it's like now I get to choose

[00:37:04] yeah

[00:37:06] like and then maybe he was good at it

[00:37:08] so then you get recognized

[00:37:10] and you're like well I'm gonna keep doing this

[00:37:12] yeah and then at a certain point

[00:37:14] it's too hard to turn back if all of

[00:37:16] the people at school are like

[00:37:18] why are you hanging out with Severus Snape

[00:37:20] he's so lame he's blah blah blah

[00:37:22] and then the only people who don't judge you

[00:37:24] are the Slytherins

[00:37:26] so then you're just kind of trapped there

[00:37:28] but then that's where Dumbledore says

[00:37:30] how brave it is what Snape is doing

[00:37:32] and then says we sort too early

[00:37:34] which is

[00:37:36] he is like one of the first blackouts

[00:37:38] which is a great call now

[00:37:40] but then we're like wait sort too early

[00:37:42] does that mean Snape could have been

[00:37:44] Gryffindor

[00:37:46] and if he was

[00:37:48] because he's so brave

[00:37:50] how would that have impacted his future

[00:37:52] and his friends and life is welcome

[00:37:54] but I mean I feel like getting sorted is not good

[00:37:56] cause then they're like living up to whatever that is

[00:37:58] yeah absolutely

[00:38:00] cause you become like

[00:38:02] the average of your 10 friends right

[00:38:04] isn't that what they say

[00:38:06] and if your 10 best friends are all Slytherins

[00:38:08] that's honestly what I was thinking with

[00:38:10] Serious

[00:38:12] and then there's a little training department

[00:38:14] and Snape's like

[00:38:16] you have to be in Slytherin

[00:38:18] and he says this to Lily

[00:38:20] then James is like no way I would never want to be

[00:38:22] and Serious is over there going like

[00:38:24] everyone in my family is a Slytherin

[00:38:26] and maybe that's the moment

[00:38:28] that Serious goes from being a Slytherin

[00:38:30] to being a Gryffindor

[00:38:32] because his friend, the only person that he's probably been on the train so far

[00:38:34] says Slytherin is terrible

[00:38:36] and he's like fine

[00:38:38] I'll go ahead and I'll be a Gryffindor now

[00:38:40] I'm like how many of these

[00:38:42] this is probably the same for

[00:38:44] Harry maybe because he met Ron on the train

[00:38:46] like I was thinking about this the entire

[00:38:48] chapter of like how

[00:38:50] influential the train is to being you being

[00:38:52] sorted it's who you meet on the train

[00:38:54] that determines how you get sorted

[00:38:56] and how that person was raised to like

[00:38:58] or not like different oh man

[00:39:00] yep

[00:39:02] but then how did Snake know about Slytherin

[00:39:04] we assume

[00:39:06] his mom was

[00:39:08] but I don't think it mentioned it specifically

[00:39:10] but he had positive views about it

[00:39:12] so

[00:39:16] he at least knows the houses because

[00:39:18] of his mom we don't know what house his mother was in

[00:39:20] but we she probably

[00:39:22] because she's proud of being a wizard

[00:39:24] probably told him about the Hogwarts and the houses

[00:39:26] Snake seems to know all that information

[00:39:28] and he relishes information as well

[00:39:30] like he loves the idea of like

[00:39:32] having this information being able to present this to

[00:39:34] Lily as like him super smart

[00:39:36] and super knowledgeable

[00:39:40] sorry I'm just admiring the picture again

[00:39:42] it's a good picture

[00:39:44] and like Lily looks so cute she actually runs around my niece

[00:39:46] whoa

[00:39:48] innocent face of like finding out

[00:39:50] something

[00:39:52] Lily's great in this

[00:39:54] I really am curious

[00:39:56] and kind of hoping we're gonna find out

[00:39:58] why Snape

[00:40:00] knew she was a wizard and was

[00:40:02] following them to begin with

[00:40:04] because that

[00:40:06] is part of this equation

[00:40:08] in a weird way

[00:40:10] I'm pretty sure he was

[00:40:12] escaping home and then just

[00:40:14] stumbled upon like the playground or something

[00:40:16] I think maybe

[00:40:18] like just like a cute girl too like initially

[00:40:20] I think it was just maybe just attracted to her

[00:40:22] or something like that and then

[00:40:24] he's creeping in the bushes and sees her like

[00:40:26] you know do this something that's different

[00:40:28] and he snipes like

[00:40:30] she's like a you know wizard

[00:40:32] it's just like me and then he's even more attracted to her than

[00:40:36] we are gonna talk about whether this is actual love or not

[00:40:40] it's a fascinating

[00:40:42] little discussion that is

[00:40:44] it is maybe the most divisive Harry Potter question

[00:40:46] and all of Harry Potter lore

[00:40:48] I'll try not to have any

[00:40:50] firm opinions about it but are we

[00:40:54] well it's great if you have them

[00:40:56] but after

[00:40:58] the worst his worst memory this is when

[00:41:00] we get into a little bit more of the meat of the chapter

[00:41:02] with like

[00:41:04] not necessarily his background but his conversations that he has with Dumbledore

[00:41:08] and this is one of the ones that we have

[00:41:10] after

[00:41:12] Snape says you know I will do anything

[00:41:14] if you protect the son

[00:41:16] and it's later found out that

[00:41:18] Lily died because of this

[00:41:20] Dumbledore then says to Snape

[00:41:22] her boy survives

[00:41:24] said Dumbledore

[00:41:26] with a tiny jerk of the head Snape seemed

[00:41:28] to flick off an irksome fly

[00:41:30] her son lives

[00:41:32] he has her eyes precisely

[00:41:34] her eyes you remember

[00:41:36] the shape and color of Lily Evans eyes

[00:41:38] was your eyes?

[00:41:40] that was west

[00:41:42] he just looked at me like this

[00:41:44] I got you

[00:41:46] because you remember the shape

[00:41:48] and color of Lily Evans eyes

[00:41:50] I am sure

[00:41:52] don't bellowed Snape

[00:41:54] gone dead

[00:41:56] is this from Morseseverus?

[00:41:58] I wish I were dead

[00:42:00] and what use would that be to anyone

[00:42:02] said Dumbledore coldly

[00:42:04] if you loved Lily Evans

[00:42:06] if you truly loved her then your way forward is clear

[00:42:08] Snape seemed to peer through a haze

[00:42:10] of pain

[00:42:12] and Dumbledore's words appeared to take a long time to reach him

[00:42:14] what

[00:42:16] do you mean

[00:42:18] you know how and why she died

[00:42:20] make sure it was not in vain

[00:42:22] help me protect Lily son

[00:42:24] need protection the dark lord is gone

[00:42:26] the dark lord will return and Harry Potter will be in terrible danger

[00:42:28] when he does

[00:42:30] there was a long pause

[00:42:32] and slowly Snape regained control of himself

[00:42:34] mastered his own breathing

[00:42:36] at last he said very well very well

[00:42:38] but never

[00:42:40] never tell Dumbledore

[00:42:42] this must be between us swear it

[00:42:44] I cannot bear especially Potter son

[00:42:46] I want your word

[00:42:48] my words Severus

[00:42:50] that I shall never reveal the best to you

[00:42:52] I am afraid looking down at the Snape's ferocious

[00:42:54] anguished face

[00:42:56] if you insist

[00:42:58] so do you understand

[00:43:00] why Snape hated and yet protected Harry

[00:43:02] do you actually think that Snape

[00:43:04] really did protect Harry

[00:43:06] well he definitely did

[00:43:08] with the curl right

[00:43:10] mm-hmm

[00:43:12] so

[00:43:14] there was that

[00:43:16] sometimes I was

[00:43:18] thinking all week

[00:43:20] why he gave him detention so much too

[00:43:24] and I was like did he actually

[00:43:26] like him and he just wanted to spend time

[00:43:28] with him but he can't make it seem

[00:43:30] like he likes him

[00:43:32] so

[00:43:34] detention is the only thing

[00:43:36] to be on one-on-one time

[00:43:38] it's a great point

[00:43:40] it's a little abusive but it's a great point

[00:43:42] it's weird that he's not allowed to like

[00:43:44] him at all

[00:43:46] I guess not in front of other Slytherins

[00:43:48] but

[00:43:50] it feels like he actually didn't like him very much

[00:43:52] no I know

[00:43:54] he hated James

[00:43:56] well that's what I was like he could see

[00:43:58] Lily but then he acted

[00:44:00] like James

[00:44:02] yeah

[00:44:04] these two things that's why I think Snape is

[00:44:06] again if you guys

[00:44:08] go through this series again

[00:44:10] I don't

[00:44:12] think there's a huge

[00:44:14] debate on whether

[00:44:16] Snape's like ethics

[00:44:18] but I think the one thing that is

[00:44:20] very very true is that

[00:44:22] I think Snape is one of the more complex characters

[00:44:24] this is ridiculous

[00:44:26] for me to say this but I think he's one of the most complex characters

[00:44:28] in all of literature just like period

[00:44:30] I think like how he acts

[00:44:32] I don't know of another character that's really been written

[00:44:34] I'm like you either kind of like characters

[00:44:36] or you don't with Snape it's so divisive

[00:44:38] and it's just so popular too so it's a little different

[00:44:40] but

[00:44:42] Snape seems to have both of these things in his

[00:44:44] mind at all times he hates Harry at all times

[00:44:46] because Snape reminds

[00:44:48] Harry of everything that he hated about himself

[00:44:50] and everything that he hated about James Potter

[00:44:52] and all these other terrible things

[00:44:54] it reminds of him him of him losing

[00:44:56] Lily of all that kind of stuff

[00:44:58] but he also simultaneously loves Harry because

[00:45:00] he sees Lily and Harry and

[00:45:02] he loved he's

[00:45:04] he's a bit about that but he seemed to have loved Lily

[00:45:06] in some weird perverted

[00:45:08] twisted way seem to have

[00:45:10] so like he simultaneously

[00:45:12] loves and hates Harry and that's how

[00:45:14] you kind of see him treating him this entire

[00:45:16] series with a lot of

[00:45:18] I mean he's doing this like an 11, 12, 13, 14 year old boy

[00:45:20] which is pretty terrible

[00:45:22] but he also didn't have

[00:45:24] an example

[00:45:26] yeah, his parents

[00:45:28] for sure

[00:45:30] he sees a distant father

[00:45:32] what does that mean Chris?

[00:45:34] we're all gonna eat Chris

[00:45:36] and dissect the psychology of this for us

[00:45:38] maybe he can do it next week

[00:45:40] the brain is not fully there

[00:45:42] I don't like him though

[00:45:48] Mulsiber and Avery

[00:45:50] Avery is a name

[00:45:52] I recognize Mulsiber is not

[00:45:54] yeah

[00:45:56] so we don't really see it but Avery

[00:46:00] was he bad bad?

[00:46:02] was he the one who worked at the ministry

[00:46:04] he was the

[00:46:06] executioner I think

[00:46:08] was he the executioner of Buckbeak

[00:46:10] or the going to be executioner of Buckbeak

[00:46:12] wait Mulsiber?

[00:46:14] no Avery

[00:46:16] it's possible but I thought that was a more menacing name

[00:46:18] the excellent spreadsheet

[00:46:20] yeah true I don't know why

[00:46:22] only because I'm trying to judge based off Snape's friends

[00:46:24] she keeps bringing them up

[00:46:26] saying they have a bad sense of humor

[00:46:28] I was thinking Voldemort killed Avery

[00:46:30] that was McNair

[00:46:32] and then I thought Avery

[00:46:34] was the one who said something about

[00:46:36] the ministry and then they

[00:46:38] somebody was getting killed

[00:46:40] trying to get the weapon out of

[00:46:42] the ministry

[00:46:44] on his

[00:46:46] orders

[00:46:48] and Voldemort might have killed him I don't know

[00:46:50] but

[00:46:52] now I'm trying to make a case for Snape being good

[00:46:54] but he is

[00:46:56] choosing bad friends

[00:46:58] but at least they're not as bad as

[00:47:00] some

[00:47:02] he definitely

[00:47:04] that's why this is interesting because he goes down the path

[00:47:06] of being bad

[00:47:08] but his

[00:47:10] what some people call

[00:47:12] his love for Lily

[00:47:14] makes him recant that

[00:47:16] and go against Voldemort in the end

[00:47:18] so he still is like again he's a death eater

[00:47:20] he's like really like a pretty nasty person

[00:47:22] using

[00:47:24] pretty dark magic against people

[00:47:26] but

[00:47:28] on the end of this

[00:47:30] he makes a decision

[00:47:32] to become a spy

[00:47:34] against Voldemort

[00:47:36] because of his intrigue

[00:47:38] I'll say intrigue for Lily

[00:47:40] so all these other

[00:47:42] people like Avery like all these other

[00:47:44] interesting characters that come up they're not necessarily

[00:47:46] the most vital it's just like

[00:47:48] Snape seems to be almost a ringleader

[00:47:50] with these two guys and like his little posse

[00:47:52] and they all three of them

[00:47:54] go and become death eaters

[00:47:56] he was in charge

[00:47:58] he was a leader

[00:48:00] that's all he wanted don't you think

[00:48:02] he wanted to be popular

[00:48:04] and those guys meet him

[00:48:08] I don't think of it as

[00:48:10] him wanting to be popular

[00:48:12] if your best friend goes against you

[00:48:14] we'll start with like best friends

[00:48:16] right Lily and Snape

[00:48:18] because they both called themselves that

[00:48:20] yeah and then all of a sudden

[00:48:22] she wants nothing to do with you

[00:48:24] you can like

[00:48:26] react to it

[00:48:28] and then go the opposite way

[00:48:32] and then you start getting a following

[00:48:34] you're like well I'll just continue this

[00:48:36] new friends now

[00:48:38] well yeah it sounds like he just didn't have many friends

[00:48:40] if they kind of knew

[00:48:42] about him even when they were 11

[00:48:44] and they didn't seem to have the best opinion of him

[00:48:46] it feels like he's been kind of struggling

[00:48:48] for friendship for a long time

[00:48:50] I know I feel for it

[00:48:52] so at least he had brotherhood in the Slytherins

[00:48:54] but it just took him down like a terrible path

[00:48:56] but then it's like

[00:48:58] alright if

[00:49:00] the prophecy wasn't about Lily Potter

[00:49:02] would he have stopped

[00:49:04] trying to stop it

[00:49:06] well yeah yeah exactly

[00:49:08] and then what would have happened

[00:49:10] wait I forget what determined

[00:49:12] it was either Neville or Harry

[00:49:14] and Voldemort

[00:49:16] marked Harry by

[00:49:18] assuming it was Harry

[00:49:20] and then

[00:49:22] it was Harry's half bloodedness

[00:49:24] it was Voldemort pure blooded

[00:49:26] Harry was a half blood

[00:49:28] and it was the one that Voldemort marked

[00:49:30] and that was the one that was going to be as equal

[00:49:32] so when Voldemort goes after Harry

[00:49:34] because he sees Harry and him being a half blood

[00:49:36] Harry was then the chosen one

[00:49:38] and

[00:49:40] if it was Neville

[00:49:42] if Voldemort marked Neville

[00:49:44] and then it went the other way

[00:49:46] would Snape have just been bad

[00:49:48] in his right hand man forever

[00:49:50] and then everything would have gone down normal

[00:49:52] and like

[00:49:54] well maybe because you do get

[00:49:56] I mean it would have been a drastically different series

[00:49:58] but you still got the moment where

[00:50:00] so maybe James and Lily would have been tortured

[00:50:02] into insanity after that

[00:50:04] so

[00:50:06] the story might have just been a little bit different

[00:50:08] so Snape might have still tried to protect Lily

[00:50:10] and James really just Lily

[00:50:12] might have tried to protect her

[00:50:14] but it would have just been a

[00:50:16] drastically different story but Voldemort's decision made that

[00:50:18] you're right because it would have happened later down the line

[00:50:20] yeah you're right it's not like they would ever get a happily ever after

[00:50:22] hmm

[00:50:28] I loved when Dumbledore

[00:50:30] showed up to Snape when he first

[00:50:32] like was turning

[00:50:34] and he shows up

[00:50:36] like lightning and the wind

[00:50:38] I feel like that kind of power we never really

[00:50:40] saw from Dumbledore we just got glimpses

[00:50:42] of it so then to see it in this moment

[00:50:44] was like oh man that was scary

[00:50:46] that's cool it's like Dumbledore in his prime

[00:50:48] he's so good

[00:50:50] like Snape was terrified his wand was out of his hand

[00:50:52] before he even realized what was happening

[00:50:54] yeah it is a cool moment

[00:50:58] this is the conversation that he has with Snape

[00:51:00] Snape and Dumbledore have a little bit later

[00:51:02] so Snape raises eyebrows

[00:51:04] and his tone was sardonic as he asked

[00:51:06] are you intending to let him kill you

[00:51:08] certainly not

[00:51:10] you must kill me

[00:51:12] there was a long silence broken only by an odd clicking

[00:51:14] noise

[00:51:16] Fox the Phoenix was gnawing a bit of cuddle bone

[00:51:18] would you like me to do it now

[00:51:20] as Snape his voice heavy with irony

[00:51:22] or would you like a few moments to compose an epitaph

[00:51:24] oh not quite said Dumbledore smiling

[00:51:26] I daresay the moment will present itself in due course

[00:51:28] given what has happened tonight

[00:51:30] he indicated his withered hand

[00:51:32] we can be sure that will happen within a year

[00:51:34] if you don't mind dying said Snape

[00:51:36] roughly why not let Draco do it

[00:51:38] that boy's soul

[00:51:40] is not yet so damaged

[00:51:42] said Dumbledore

[00:51:44] I would not have it ripped apart on my account

[00:51:46] and my soul Dumbledore

[00:51:48] mine

[00:51:50] you alone know whether

[00:51:52] it will harm your soul to help an old man

[00:51:54] avoid pain and humiliation said Dumbledore

[00:51:58] so this is kind of like

[00:52:00] the idea of

[00:52:02] do we understand now

[00:52:04] why Snape was the one that killed Dumbledore

[00:52:08] partly

[00:52:10] we just don't know the

[00:52:12] we just don't know the

[00:52:14] the Elder Wand element if that was part of it

[00:52:16] yep but we know that it was to

[00:52:18] protect Draco

[00:52:20] and knowing that

[00:52:22] because Snape knows the real reason

[00:52:24] it even protects Snape a little bit

[00:52:26] yeah and potentially passes the Elder Wand

[00:52:28] along to somebody

[00:52:30] so Dumbledore yeah and again Dumbledore could have been doing this

[00:52:32] manipulatively

[00:52:34] so Snape the Elder Wand falls into Snape's

[00:52:36] hand which is going to get harder and harder to get

[00:52:38] right just all part of the plan exactly

[00:52:40] setting him up as bait and potentially

[00:52:42] even thinking that

[00:52:44] Snape would always be the rightful owner

[00:52:46] and then also

[00:52:48] never get killed so that Voldemort

[00:52:50] would never reach the full power

[00:52:52] so I don't know

[00:52:54] it could have been one of those yeah

[00:52:56] he's leaving out details again though

[00:52:58] Clav Dumbledore

[00:53:00] he doesn't tell anybody anything

[00:53:02] it's ridiculous

[00:53:04] I'm curious

[00:53:06] can't have too many eggs in one basket

[00:53:08] yeah exactly

[00:53:10] when Dumbledore

[00:53:12] destroyed the ring

[00:53:14] they're talking about it a little bit

[00:53:16] and Snape was curious why

[00:53:18] Dumbledore said I was a fool

[00:53:20] sorely tempted

[00:53:22] and Snape says tempted by what

[00:53:24] and that's my question too

[00:53:26] so Dumbledore did not answer

[00:53:28] like what was he tempted by

[00:53:30] tempted by

[00:53:32] yeah because it's a spirit in there

[00:53:34] so maybe instead of it

[00:53:36] Ron was trying to kill

[00:53:38] or stab

[00:53:40] the locket

[00:53:42] so you think this was another kind of spirit

[00:53:44] giving Dumbledore some options

[00:53:46] because it plays off of

[00:53:48] half of my kingdom can be yours

[00:53:50] like

[00:53:52] what would the ring have done to tempt him

[00:53:54] I mean

[00:53:56] he's not tempted by much

[00:53:58] must have been juicy

[00:54:00] like a lord of the rings

[00:54:02] what did he see in the mirror verse it

[00:54:04] socks

[00:54:06] oh so he could go back to see Eriana

[00:54:08] was going to give him socks

[00:54:14] I'm trying to think if there could be any

[00:54:16] connection anything more that the ring

[00:54:18] could actually give him

[00:54:20] or I guess my first instinct

[00:54:22] was that it could confirm some of the

[00:54:24] theory that

[00:54:28] well if the ring had more

[00:54:30] power to it

[00:54:32] but

[00:54:34] I just think it taps into whatever

[00:54:36] you're either fear

[00:54:38] or your wants are

[00:54:40] yeah yeah it could have just been that exactly

[00:54:42] and it kind of just allows you to

[00:54:44] hmm

[00:54:46] cause Ron's fear was that Harry and Hermione

[00:54:48] were getting together

[00:54:50] yeah

[00:54:52] there is

[00:54:54] kind of a theory that each

[00:54:56] of the objects

[00:54:58] would do something different to you

[00:55:00] and torture you

[00:55:02] so some people say that if they actually

[00:55:04] had the diadem in their possession for a longer

[00:55:06] period of time and they put it on

[00:55:08] it really would have psychologically messed with you

[00:55:10] some people said if you drank from the cup

[00:55:12] it would have done something completely different to you

[00:55:14] but they all maybe have some kind of weird elements

[00:55:16] which is why Dumbledore when he puts on the ring

[00:55:18] rather than puts on the locket

[00:55:20] you know the locket really makes you grumpy

[00:55:22] and when you open it

[00:55:24] it specifically targeted for that person

[00:55:26] so it might have just been the Horcrux itself

[00:55:28] as Curse but why did he really even put on the ring

[00:55:30] like what is it about the ring

[00:55:32] is there any specific part of the ring that he

[00:55:34] was

[00:55:36] like why would you put on a Horcrux

[00:55:38] like that

[00:55:40] like what is tempting him to do that rather than just destroying

[00:55:42] which they destroy the cup

[00:55:44] the diadem like that

[00:55:46] I thought he just destroyed it and then put it on

[00:55:48] but I guess not

[00:55:50] no cause I think the curse like the blackened hand came from

[00:55:52] him putting it on while it still had power

[00:55:54] so if it was the resurrection stone

[00:55:56] and there was a temptation along

[00:55:58] those lines I'm even well it's our

[00:56:00] of course every episode we must

[00:56:02] wrap this Lord of the Rings

[00:56:04] it's just like the ring there's like the temptation to put it on

[00:56:06] or just to see what it does

[00:56:08] try me see how good it is

[00:56:10] and then he gets to like

[00:56:12] see but it was a trap

[00:56:14] or I'm thinking of the way Harry talked about

[00:56:16] the Dementors when Luna and Neville came

[00:56:18] to save the day

[00:56:20] when Harry

[00:56:22] at some point loses so much hope

[00:56:24] he almost welcomes letting it all

[00:56:26] end because he reaches

[00:56:28] that point of just like at least it'll all be over

[00:56:30] and I feel like

[00:56:32] when you're in some of those weird things that mess with your mind

[00:56:34] you lose

[00:56:36] all perspective and maybe that's part of like the depression

[00:56:38] thing she's been referencing through Dementors

[00:56:40] but then what if

[00:56:42] Dumbledore experienced something like that with this ring

[00:56:44] of just this temptation

[00:56:46] that clouds his judgment entirely

[00:56:48] of just put it on all your

[00:56:50] problems go away if you put this ring on

[00:56:52] but really it takes over his whole body

[00:56:54] maybe it's that though

[00:56:56] it's like part

[00:56:58] Horcrux part

[00:57:00] the stone and it said

[00:57:02] if you put this on you could bring

[00:57:04] someone back to life

[00:57:06] Ariana could be here again

[00:57:08] yeah you can bring back Ariana with her wool socks

[00:57:10] yeah

[00:57:12] yeah it could be

[00:57:14] so he got tempted to

[00:57:16] put it on and then it was kind of a trap

[00:57:18] and it was his undoing and kind of terrible

[00:57:22] what do you think

[00:57:24] which stinks

[00:57:26] terrible way for Dumbledore to go

[00:57:28] so I keep hoping there's like another layer to it

[00:57:30] or it's just telling that even

[00:57:32] as powerful as he was

[00:57:34] he could be tempted because anyone can be tempted

[00:57:36] and

[00:57:38] he had to deal with the consequences

[00:57:40] yeah for sure

[00:57:42] or did he know Snape wouldn't kill him

[00:57:44] unless he had a certain death already

[00:57:46] so he had to infect himself

[00:57:48] to make it easier for him

[00:57:50] that would be

[00:57:52] the ultimate sacrifice actually

[00:57:54] Dumbledore does know a lot

[00:57:58] and we still don't know how he knows everything

[00:58:00] but if he saw everything going down

[00:58:02] as it was

[00:58:04] and he knew he had to ask Snape to kill him

[00:58:06] he would also probably

[00:58:08] know Snape wouldn't be willing

[00:58:10] unless he was already dead

[00:58:12] like you know

[00:58:14] actually I like that

[00:58:16] I'm gonna think about that from now on

[00:58:18] if the book gives us reason otherwise

[00:58:20] because that's another more noble way

[00:58:22] that Dumbledore is saying

[00:58:24] it has to go down this way

[00:58:26] and that was his

[00:58:28] way of initiating it

[00:58:30] and maybe he even accomplished something

[00:58:32] with his temptation before

[00:58:34] it all went south

[00:58:36] I don't know

[00:58:38] yeah it's

[00:58:40] interesting why he put that on

[00:58:42] we'll

[00:58:44] learn about the reasons why in a few

[00:58:48] years

[00:58:50] we'll discuss this

[00:58:52] man those poor chudly cannons

[00:58:54] they just can't contribute

[00:58:56] that's a front of history joke I know

[00:58:58] there is another line here

[00:59:00] that is

[00:59:02] one of the most important of this entire

[00:59:04] chapter

[00:59:06] Harry must not know

[00:59:08] not until the last moment

[00:59:10] not until it is necessary

[00:59:12] otherwise how could he have the strength to do what he must

[00:59:14] well must be done

[00:59:16] tell him what

[00:59:18] Dumbledore took a deep breath and closed his eyes

[00:59:20] tell him that on a night Lord Voldemort

[00:59:22] tried to kill him

[00:59:24] when Lily cast her own life between them as a shield

[00:59:26] the killing curse

[00:59:28] rebounded upon Lord Voldemort and a fragment

[00:59:30] of Voldemort's sword

[00:59:32] was blasted apart from the hole

[00:59:34] and latched itself onto the only

[00:59:36] living thing left

[00:59:38] in that collapsing building

[00:59:40] part of Lord Voldemort lives inside Harry

[00:59:42] and it is that which

[00:59:44] gives him the power of speech with snakes

[00:59:46] and a connection with Lord Voldemort's

[00:59:48] mind that he has never understood

[00:59:50] and while that fragment

[00:59:52] of soul, unmist by Voldemort

[00:59:54] remains attached to

[00:59:56] and protected by Harry

[00:59:58] Lord Voldemort cannot die

[01:00:02] what does that mean

[01:00:04] you said it's a harry crux

[01:00:06] during the library

[01:00:08] yeah

[01:00:10] I'm just, oh goodness

[01:00:12] well what Jen was saying in the car

[01:00:14] um

[01:00:16] what was it something about

[01:00:18] nobody really understands

[01:00:20] how this stuff works

[01:00:22] cause it's ancient magic

[01:00:24] well yeah, my ancient magic thing

[01:00:26] of course

[01:00:28] but I feel like Dumbledore still doesn't know the full thing

[01:00:30] cause he just says oh it's like

[01:00:32] it's called this but like I don't really know how it works

[01:00:34] right with the

[01:00:36] two wands of the double core

[01:00:38] when all those people came out

[01:00:40] you could explain it but like

[01:00:42] oh like Priory and Cantatum actually happening

[01:00:44] was different than what Dumbledore

[01:00:46] thought he just knew the concepts

[01:00:48] so you think it's the same thing with the wands

[01:00:50] I think potentially

[01:00:52] or with the horcrux I mean

[01:00:54] with the horcrux, yeah

[01:00:56] well I've toyed with a few things

[01:00:58] where it was like well maybe

[01:01:00] I also said that everyone's dying

[01:01:02] for

[01:01:04] the good of

[01:01:06] the wizarding world and the muggle

[01:01:08] world which is also protecting

[01:01:10] Harry I feel like

[01:01:12] like everyone's kind of dying for Harry

[01:01:14] to like

[01:01:16] go up against Voldemort to like

[01:01:18] to defeat him

[01:01:20] so I feel like maybe

[01:01:22] potentially all that love and the ancient

[01:01:24] magic spells

[01:01:26] that

[01:01:28] could go along with it are protecting him

[01:01:30] so even if Voldemort tries to kill him

[01:01:32] he maybe can't

[01:01:34] or

[01:01:36] I've also said the other thing with the wand

[01:01:38] yeah and

[01:01:40] and I guess it's

[01:01:42] it's

[01:01:44] is this horcrux forward

[01:01:46] like if

[01:01:48] Voldemort is attacking him with the

[01:01:50] the death blow

[01:01:52] does he hit him in the forehead

[01:01:54] with it and then

[01:01:56] horcrux is gone and he did

[01:01:58] defeat Harry

[01:02:00] but he defeated the more powerful

[01:02:02] entity because we've seen things like that too

[01:02:04] there's like a little

[01:02:06] well I guess I'm thinking of

[01:02:08] you guys is a lot of

[01:02:10] yeah they literally that's what it is

[01:02:12] because I'm like

[01:02:14] it feels like Harry can't die

[01:02:16] and it also feels

[01:02:18] like Snape needed to know that

[01:02:20] somehow because this by the end

[01:02:22] it wasn't

[01:02:24] it was satisfying for

[01:02:26] so much but in the second read I'm like

[01:02:28] Snape's right

[01:02:30] and this feels like Dumbledore just manipulated everybody

[01:02:32] and Dumbledore's like

[01:02:34] yeah I did leave you to believe that Harry was going to be fine

[01:02:36] for this whole time

[01:02:38] for however many years

[01:02:40] but he's gonna die

[01:02:42] and he didn't say that so

[01:02:44] I'm like I just refused to think that Dumbledore

[01:02:46] was manipulative and I keep hoping

[01:02:48] we're gonna find out even more about

[01:02:50] a conversation between

[01:02:52] Snape and Dumbledore or Dumbledore

[01:02:54] and others

[01:02:56] because it just leaves

[01:02:58] me wanting a little bit more

[01:03:00] that takes away the manipulation

[01:03:02] what what I said in the car that you said

[01:03:04] maybe Dumbledore is saying all these

[01:03:06] things because Harry has to

[01:03:08] believe he's sacrificed

[01:03:10] yes it has to be a willing sacrifice

[01:03:12] but he's act so

[01:03:14] he's making everyone believe this

[01:03:16] but it's not actually yeah I like that theory

[01:03:18] that's good I'm good

[01:03:20] yeah I forgot about that one because

[01:03:22] well only because

[01:03:24] it's more manipulation which stinks

[01:03:26] but if that were the case it's another

[01:03:28] holding on to a hope

[01:03:30] that it's not about actually dying

[01:03:32] but about Harry needs to believe

[01:03:34] he's dying and be willing to do it

[01:03:36] in order to

[01:03:38] protect the people that he loves

[01:03:40] so he walks into this

[01:03:42] Voldemort situation

[01:03:44] he's the love shield for all his peeps

[01:03:46] but then he has to die

[01:03:48] maybe not

[01:03:50] but at least everyone else

[01:03:52] I also had a theory

[01:03:54] about the elder one because I thought

[01:03:56] if he's let's say this is the elder

[01:03:58] one and he's using it against

[01:04:00] someone

[01:04:02] but what if the someone is part

[01:04:04] him would it actually

[01:04:06] defeat that person

[01:04:08] would it backfire

[01:04:10] that's where I was like I feel like

[01:04:12] it won't work

[01:04:14] Harry's got love shield and

[01:04:16] vaulty shield

[01:04:18] double whammy

[01:04:20] if he's a horcrux you can't kill a horcrux without the griffin door sword

[01:04:22] this is like the ring of power

[01:04:24] though again it has to be

[01:04:26] destroyed or it was made

[01:04:28] like Voldemort has to be

[01:04:30] like Dumbledore makes that very clear

[01:04:32] Voldemort has to be the one that destroys

[01:04:34] or that kills Harry

[01:04:36] but what if everything else is defeated except

[01:04:38] Harry and the horcrux in him

[01:04:40] well that's what I'm kind of saying

[01:04:42] imagine how could

[01:04:44] how could Voldemort kill

[01:04:46] Harry

[01:04:48] or just the opposite of what we're hoping

[01:04:50] happen where Harry dies

[01:04:52] and the horcrux doesn't die

[01:04:54] no no Harry

[01:04:56] defeats Voldemort

[01:04:58] Harry wins, Voldemort dies, everyone's happy

[01:05:00] and then his scar

[01:05:02] horcrux he just points

[01:05:04] because what we've found is

[01:05:06] wands can't kill horcruxes

[01:05:08] so unless it's the sword of griffin door

[01:05:10] or a fang of basilisk

[01:05:12] how can

[01:05:14] Harry's scar die

[01:05:16] okay how do you cut the

[01:05:18] there's two suggestions that you can add for that

[01:05:20] this is the elder one, can the elder one destroy

[01:05:22] horcrux or

[01:05:24] can the owner of a horcrux

[01:05:26] destroy his own horcrux with his wand

[01:05:28] that's interesting because maybe Voldemort

[01:05:30] is able to destroy Harry yeah definitely

[01:05:32] could be true because Snape

[01:05:34] in the next one of the next lines of this chapter says

[01:05:36] Snape goes so the boy

[01:05:38] the boy must die asked Snape

[01:05:40] quite calmly and Voldemort himself

[01:05:42] must do it Severus that is essential

[01:05:44] another long silence then Snape said

[01:05:46] I thought

[01:05:48] all these years

[01:05:50] that we were protecting him for her

[01:05:52] for Lily

[01:05:54] we have protected him because it has been

[01:05:56] essential to teach him

[01:05:58] to raise him

[01:06:00] to let him try his strength said Dumbledore

[01:06:02] his eyes still tight shut

[01:06:04] meanwhile the connection between them grows

[01:06:06] even stronger

[01:06:08] a parasitic growth sometimes I've thought

[01:06:10] he suspects himself

[01:06:12] if I know him

[01:06:14] it will arrange matter so that when he does set out

[01:06:16] to meet his death it will truly mean the end of

[01:06:18] Voldemort Dumbledore opened his eyes

[01:06:20] Snape looked horrified

[01:06:22] you have kept him alive

[01:06:24] so that he can die at the right moment

[01:06:26] don't be shocked Severus

[01:06:28] how many men and women have you watched

[01:06:30] die so cold I know

[01:06:32] lately only those whom I could not

[01:06:34] save said Snape

[01:06:36] he stood up you've used me

[01:06:38] meaning

[01:06:40] I have spied for you and lied for you

[01:06:42] put myself in mortal danger for you

[01:06:44] everything was supposed to be to keep Lily Potter's son safe

[01:06:46] now you tell me you've been raising him

[01:06:48] like a pig for slaughter

[01:06:50] but this is touching Severus said Dumbledore

[01:06:52] seriously have you grown to care for the boy

[01:06:54] after all for him

[01:06:56] shouted Snape

[01:06:58] expecto patronum from the tip of

[01:07:00] his wand burst the silver dough

[01:07:02] she landed on the office floor

[01:07:04] bounded across the office and soared out of the window

[01:07:06] Dumbledore watched her fly away

[01:07:08] and as her silvery glow faded

[01:07:10] he turned back to Snape and his eyes were full of tears

[01:07:14] after all this time

[01:07:16] always

[01:07:18] said Snape

[01:07:22] it can't just be for Snape though

[01:07:24] okay

[01:07:26] wait what?

[01:07:28] I'm just saying there I am

[01:07:30] what are you saying?

[01:07:32] what I'm saying is that always can't just be like

[01:07:34] Snape's love

[01:07:36] for Harry and Lily

[01:07:38] for Lily

[01:07:40] because he says for him

[01:07:42] question mark meaning like no it's not for him

[01:07:44] it's for Lily right

[01:07:46] but there's more juice to this

[01:07:48] we just don't get it

[01:07:50] all I'm saying is because everyone uses this

[01:07:52] for wedding decorations

[01:07:54] I'm like I can't be this

[01:07:56] I don't know what it is

[01:07:58] but I know that the Snape thing

[01:08:00] cannot be this

[01:08:02] the first time I asked you this

[01:08:04] question guys

[01:08:06] I said there is a word

[01:08:08] that Harry Potter fans

[01:08:10] always

[01:08:12] always

[01:08:14] I've said it

[01:08:16] I'm not gonna gas let you into not believing it

[01:08:18] wow that's so great

[01:08:20] Jen you had that one point of the podcast

[01:08:22] where you're like everyone writes it on weddings

[01:08:24] and stuff like that

[01:08:26] and she's like it has to be always

[01:08:28] and I'm like I don't think so it's definitely not that

[01:08:30] wow I wonder how many more of those little gems

[01:08:32] you hit throughout the podcast

[01:08:34] annoying

[01:08:36] always

[01:08:38] this is essentially your guys theory

[01:08:40] I want to confirm this right now

[01:08:42] you think that

[01:08:44] Snape or you think that Voldemort

[01:08:46] is going to kill Harry

[01:08:48] but there might not Harry might not die

[01:08:50] because Snape is killing something

[01:08:52] like the Horcrux is the first thing that he kills

[01:08:54] and then all of a sudden Harry

[01:08:56] because he dies willingly

[01:08:58] or dies willingly whatever that looks like

[01:09:00] he then casts a protection over

[01:09:02] everyone else in the castle

[01:09:04] ummmmmmmmmmmmmm

[01:09:06] I like that

[01:09:08] something like that

[01:09:10] I guess

[01:09:12] I was almost feeling hoping there'd be something

[01:09:14] more about

[01:09:16] protection when you die willingly for the right

[01:09:18] reasons there's a nobility to it

[01:09:20] ummm

[01:09:24] yeah or I'm thinking Harry already

[01:09:26] has enough charms of protection

[01:09:28] for the people who have died for him

[01:09:30] Lupin and Tonks and Moody

[01:09:32] and Fred and like

[01:09:34] so I'm feeling like Harry has a lot of protection

[01:09:36] and so if Voldemort is attacking

[01:09:38] and

[01:09:42] he

[01:09:44] Harry

[01:09:46] Harry's soul

[01:09:48] that's another confusing part soul in mind

[01:09:50] or one in the same does that mean anything

[01:09:52] then like Harry's soul is protected

[01:09:54] but Voldemort's

[01:09:56] is not protected by that same love

[01:09:58] so then

[01:10:00] Voldemort only kills himself and Harry is protected

[01:10:02] but

[01:10:04] I'm not so sure

[01:10:06] according to that theory it wouldn't matter as much

[01:10:08] if Harry goes willingly or not

[01:10:10] but maybe that's all Dumbledore knew at the time

[01:10:12] ummmmmmmmmmmm

[01:10:14] like that's what makes me think now even more

[01:10:16] so because he said

[01:10:18] uhhhh

[01:10:20] he has to go and

[01:10:22] um Voldemort has to be the one to kill him

[01:10:24] yeah but that's weird too

[01:10:26] why does Voldemort have to be the one

[01:10:28] no because he needs to try to kill himself

[01:10:30] and so only Voldemort can

[01:10:32] kill the

[01:10:34] the Horcrux, the Harry crux

[01:10:36] without

[01:10:38] like cause you can't stab Harry in the forehead with the

[01:10:40] the bass only way for it to

[01:10:42] leave Harry is to have

[01:10:44] Voldemort

[01:10:46] like himself

[01:10:48] attack

[01:10:50] that does make sense but then why

[01:10:52] couldn't he say it

[01:10:54] differently

[01:10:56] he couldn't say

[01:10:58] because he can't talk about Horcruxes

[01:11:00] and take a big hit or something

[01:11:02] oh okay yeah

[01:11:04] so he's still not talking about Horcruxes

[01:11:06] with Snape

[01:11:08] he's implying somehow

[01:11:10] that Harry is

[01:11:12] has part of his soul but he's not saying

[01:11:14] he's part of Horcrux too

[01:11:16] right right so he's still keeping

[01:11:18] that from Snape

[01:11:20] and then

[01:11:22] well I still don't fully get why but

[01:11:24] he couldn't just say

[01:11:26] Harry has to fight Voldemort

[01:11:28] and then let it happen how it happens

[01:11:30] and then what's Harry supposed to do

[01:11:32] go out there with his hands behind his back

[01:11:34] alright it's time

[01:11:36] get me

[01:11:38] it just feels weird

[01:11:40] go out kill Nagini with one hit

[01:11:42] you don't think Dumbledore is saying these things

[01:11:44] setting it up for a more

[01:11:46] dramatic story to get more of a reaction

[01:11:48] from Snape

[01:11:50] from Snape and then from Harry

[01:11:54] wait what do you mean from Harry

[01:11:56] I think Dumbledore was never planning on telling him this stuff

[01:11:58] it was like Snape was supposed to tell him these things

[01:12:02] that's what it feels like

[01:12:04] so Dumbledore was telling all of this to Snape

[01:12:06] hoping Snape would pass this along to Harry

[01:12:08] yeah

[01:12:10] and like you have to die

[01:12:12] but even that feels weird

[01:12:14] because how would that come from Snape

[01:12:16] then like Harry is going to be like

[01:12:18] oh yeah Snape I hate you you hate me

[01:12:20] sounds like a great idea I'm just going to go to your boss

[01:12:22] and let him kill me cool good plan

[01:12:24] like I just feel like that's so weird

[01:12:26] how would Snape even prove that he was

[01:12:30] on Harry's side

[01:12:32] and then he'd be like yeah you gotta go kill yourself now

[01:12:34] what he actually did was

[01:12:36] the pensive fair if you can read minds

[01:12:38] but Snape is so good at that

[01:12:40] if he wasn't doing this on his dying breath

[01:12:42] I don't think Harry would have believed it

[01:12:44] and Dumbledore even warned him

[01:12:46] that when or Dumbledore's portrait warned him

[01:12:48] when he was going to bring them the sword

[01:12:50] like he's like yeah they still might be mad

[01:12:52] about the George thing so just like don't

[01:12:54] don't you know be careful

[01:12:56] but then that's another whole thing

[01:12:58] is if he saw his Patronus like here I could prove it to you

[01:13:00] and look it's a silver

[01:13:02] oh true doh and yeah yeah yeah

[01:13:04] I helped you back then

[01:13:06] but it's still yeah that would help for sure

[01:13:08] it would still be potentially

[01:13:10] I don't know I feel like Dumbledore

[01:13:12] saying these things that it's not actually true

[01:13:14] like I think he's just setting up for like another story

[01:13:18] yeah I just can't figure out what it is

[01:13:20] like what would the thing be

[01:13:22] I wanted to believe Snape was good

[01:13:24] and you want to continue to trust Dumbledore

[01:13:26] that was right

[01:13:28] Dumbledore has a plan in this

[01:13:30] I just can't figure out what the plan is

[01:13:32] what's the close

[01:13:34] when does it open what's inside forgot about that

[01:13:36] and how does that help us

[01:13:38] in this situation

[01:13:40] I just feel like the fact that he's saying

[01:13:42] Voldemort needs to kill him

[01:13:44] and he needs to know

[01:13:46] like that just seems really important

[01:13:48] yeah you have to tell him this

[01:13:50] when it's all well it's also weird because

[01:13:54] even if

[01:13:56] Harry didn't talk to Snape about this

[01:13:58] wouldn't that be the end result anyway

[01:14:00] it's exactly what Voldemort was saying

[01:14:02] in the last chapter

[01:14:04] it seems like he knows Harry better than anyone

[01:14:06] he's like yeah Harry's coming to us

[01:14:08] don't you worry he'll be here

[01:14:10] and I feel like the same thing would happen

[01:14:12] whether he knew this from Snape or not

[01:14:14] he would

[01:14:16] try to kill Nagini and then fight Voldemort

[01:14:18] and he only has an hour to decide anyway

[01:14:20] so in my mind at the end of that

[01:14:22] hour he's fighting Voldemort one way or another

[01:14:24] and regardless of what he heard

[01:14:26] from Snape or Dumbledore or anyone else

[01:14:28] he's on this mission

[01:14:32] but is he going to go out there

[01:14:34] and willingly die

[01:14:36] that's the part that's weird

[01:14:38] it's the only thing that I think

[01:14:40] Snape's story

[01:14:42] says that changes the action

[01:14:44] what is like he's not even going to put up a fight

[01:14:46] well that's what I'm saying that's too weird

[01:14:48] maybe that would throw Voldemort off so much

[01:14:50] he'd be like what's he doing

[01:14:52] is this a trap

[01:14:54] it just feels weird

[01:14:56] I don't know uh

[01:14:58] or maybe you have to put up a fight

[01:15:00] just to keep it going for a little

[01:15:02] I didn't think that way

[01:15:04] I keep thinking he's like fighting him

[01:15:08] I would still want to fight him

[01:15:10] if I had a time

[01:15:12] like this is for the

[01:15:14] well yeah yeah well then you're fighting with no risk

[01:15:16] you're like ha ha at least I can poke him a few times

[01:15:18] before it's all over

[01:15:20] so I mean

[01:15:22] we asked this at the right end

[01:15:24] but we'll ask it now

[01:15:26] what is Harry gonna do after this chapter

[01:15:30] he's gonna fight Voldemort

[01:15:32] do you think

[01:15:34] how can you separate Nagini from Voldemort

[01:15:36] do you think that all happens at once

[01:15:38] I feel like maybe Ron and Hermione

[01:15:40] can take care of Nagini

[01:15:42] I do kind of like that

[01:15:44] from afar

[01:15:46] and then he takes care of Voldemort

[01:15:48] so he's gonna go with

[01:15:50] I really can't picture them

[01:15:52] leaving him

[01:15:54] even though if he explains everything

[01:15:56] they're like we're going with you

[01:16:00] but then Harry's like gonna explain to them

[01:16:02] that yeah it's a die though

[01:16:04] maybe that's why he wanted the three of them together

[01:16:06] he's like you could tell Ron and Hermione

[01:16:08] maybe this is all part of the plan

[01:16:10] because they all need to know about it

[01:16:12] well hmm

[01:16:14] it just seems pretty risky

[01:16:16] and then

[01:16:18] if Ron and Hermione die protecting Harry

[01:16:20] what happens

[01:16:22] another charm

[01:16:24] it feels like the kind of thing he

[01:16:26] I was gonna say has to go do it alone but you're right

[01:16:28] Dumbledore wanted them to be together

[01:16:30] and has kept them together this whole time

[01:16:34] right

[01:16:36] and that's why I don't fully believe

[01:16:38] that he's like a

[01:16:40] pig going to the slaughterhouse

[01:16:42] I feel like these are just words

[01:16:44] to

[01:16:46] you think there's more

[01:16:48] there better be more

[01:16:50] I'm sure there is, we got a couple chapters

[01:16:52] but I just don't know what it would be

[01:16:54] and then

[01:16:56] your opinion of how the dynamic shifts

[01:16:58] is very

[01:17:00] decreased in this because

[01:17:02] you feel so icky after this

[01:17:04] he was just manipulating everything

[01:17:06] even

[01:17:08] when did Dumbledore know

[01:17:10] about all this

[01:17:12] was he keeping Harry alive for this long

[01:17:14] specifically so that he could just

[01:17:16] wait till

[01:17:18] he could just get older

[01:17:20] and then Voldemort could kill him then

[01:17:22] was he really raising it for a pig in the first slaughter

[01:17:24] or was there any kind of love

[01:17:26] or like

[01:17:28] but when Harry questions out to Dumbledore

[01:17:30] Dumbledore was very

[01:17:32] like

[01:17:34] his response was calming

[01:17:36] I forget when it was

[01:17:38] it might have been book four or something

[01:17:40] because he gave you a master manipulator

[01:17:42] well yeah fair

[01:17:44] it is

[01:17:46] I don't want to think of Dumbledore that way

[01:17:48] and I'm holding out hope

[01:17:50] that there's a good reason

[01:17:52] but if we don't get a good reason

[01:17:54] this chapter left

[01:17:56] me with

[01:17:58] feelings towards Dumbledore and Snape

[01:18:00] it was better feelings because this was

[01:18:02] a big step up compared to what Snape was

[01:18:04] feeling

[01:18:06] but a big step down for

[01:18:08] Dumbledore of like manipulation

[01:18:10] so I just want a little more

[01:18:12] because I still have that hope that Dumbledore

[01:18:14] there's more to this

[01:18:16] and it was all for

[01:18:18] Harry's good

[01:18:20] it can't be for Harry's good

[01:18:22] but here's the issue though

[01:18:24] if there's more to this

[01:18:26] when does he find out there's more to this

[01:18:28] I know

[01:18:30] the portrait

[01:18:32] but the portrait's gone no one's in the portrait right now

[01:18:34] yeah I guess I'm hoping there's still somewhere else

[01:18:36] but yeah maybe it comes back

[01:18:38] I don't know where he would

[01:18:40] but it could be a good old fashioned letter

[01:18:42] it could be something else

[01:18:46] I open up the close

[01:18:48] could be a note from Dumbledore

[01:18:50] it might not be something dramatic to end

[01:18:52] the

[01:18:54] battle but it could be just something to

[01:18:56] conclude the relationship

[01:18:58] or something more like

[01:19:00] another piece of

[01:19:02] the story or something

[01:19:04] from Dumbledore to Harry I don't know

[01:19:08] but in my mind there is still hope

[01:19:10] that it was not manipulation

[01:19:14] but maybe we don't have enough pieces

[01:19:16] or I just can't see any connection

[01:19:18] could he also have been saying stuff that way in case

[01:19:20] Voldemort was reading his mind

[01:19:22] like I try to keep thinking

[01:19:24] of these conversations

[01:19:26] as though Voldemort

[01:19:28] can read their mind

[01:19:30] he did say that yeah you're right

[01:19:32] he might have just been saying it

[01:19:34] so that way

[01:19:36] Voldemort thinks it'll be easy

[01:19:38] or

[01:19:40] yeah

[01:19:42] but then what is Harry

[01:19:44] but then I think also Dumbledore knows

[01:19:46] Harry and would he just sacrifice

[01:19:48] himself he would probably fight

[01:19:50] for his life

[01:19:52] and then that's

[01:19:54] actually what he wants

[01:19:56] because

[01:19:58] he knows that Harry will protect

[01:20:00] till the death

[01:20:02] but he's not going to go down

[01:20:04] like

[01:20:06] not fighting

[01:20:08] cause that's in Harry's blood

[01:20:10] he's not going to go down not fighting

[01:20:12] but will he just go down

[01:20:14] like again it talks about this idea of being willing

[01:20:16] to go down

[01:20:18] and then we've never seen him quite like that

[01:20:20] and he is starting to take Dumbledore's word

[01:20:22] more and more

[01:20:24] maybe he doesn't need a wand

[01:20:26] yeah I guess not

[01:20:28] I really think Voldemort is going to kill himself

[01:20:30] instead of killing Harry

[01:20:32] accidentally

[01:20:34] so you think Harry's going to die

[01:20:36] no

[01:20:38] just Voldemort is going to kill his scar

[01:20:40] he's going to de-horcrux himself

[01:20:42] interesting

[01:20:44] or we also talked about does Harry die

[01:20:46] and then Voldemort dies

[01:20:48] and then Harry gets resurrected

[01:20:50] with the stone

[01:20:52] but that seems like not a real way

[01:20:54] of coming back

[01:20:56] so that's why I don't believe it

[01:20:58] again we

[01:21:00] they're missing pieces to make that happen

[01:21:02] unless the resurrection stone is in the snitch

[01:21:04] or

[01:21:06] yeah

[01:21:08] and that's why it just feels weird

[01:21:10] how

[01:21:12] we just

[01:21:14] we want a happy ending so bad

[01:21:16] that we're like anything is possible

[01:21:18] whatever some of my steps coming true

[01:21:20] so now I'm going to go

[01:21:22] I've been saying from the very beginning

[01:21:24] he might have to die because it makes sense

[01:21:26] for the story arc

[01:21:28] and then that's a fair conclusion to the book

[01:21:30] I just don't like it

[01:21:32] and there are ways it doesn't have to happen

[01:21:34] somewhere in this world

[01:21:36] I keep thinking this old ways word

[01:21:38] is something more

[01:21:40] than what was just said

[01:21:42] so like he was always going to live because of love

[01:21:46] or something like that

[01:21:48] oh, Harry?

[01:21:50] yeah, so like this always

[01:21:52] thing it's like

[01:21:54] actually always he was always going to survive this

[01:21:56] and he was always going

[01:21:58] to defeat Voldemort

[01:22:00] because of the love

[01:22:04] and then that would make more sense

[01:22:06] as to why they use in weddings

[01:22:08] that's your

[01:22:10] your primary clue

[01:22:12] yeah, I mean

[01:22:14] I also am wondering what Dumbledore meant

[01:22:16] behind the phrase after all this time

[01:22:18] the initial

[01:22:20] read was oh you

[01:22:22] still love Lily after all this time

[01:22:24] but

[01:22:26] why did his

[01:22:28] Patronus

[01:22:30] tell Dumbledore that

[01:22:32] because Lily's Patronus was a doe

[01:22:34] and has changed into a doe

[01:22:36] changed to the doe so we know hers was a doe

[01:22:38] what? I didn't know this

[01:22:40] because that's, this is mimicking what happened

[01:22:42] to Tonks with Lupin

[01:22:44] and so it confirms kind of the theory

[01:22:46] that Lupin's Patronus was the same as his anime

[01:22:50] you were right, so that's another thing

[01:22:52] that you nailed because you were like

[01:22:54] my top two are maybe that it's Lily and Snape

[01:22:56] you were right on both

[01:22:58] it's both

[01:23:00] so Dumbledore is saying

[01:23:02] after all this time

[01:23:04] so that's

[01:23:06] Harry's not dying

[01:23:08] he's dead

[01:23:10] she ends up in a role right now

[01:23:12] she's really confident in her answers

[01:23:14] that is how Dumbledore

[01:23:16] well that's why Dumbledore says after all this time

[01:23:18] because he knew

[01:23:20] that was proof that he still loved Lily

[01:23:22] that was proof that he still

[01:23:24] loved Lily

[01:23:26] that's a good question

[01:23:28] that would make sense

[01:23:32] what the heck

[01:23:34] I missed that

[01:23:36] you just told us this

[01:23:38] oh that Lily's Patronus was the doe

[01:23:40] yeah I don't think that was said

[01:23:42] but it was definitely implied right here

[01:23:44] that's why I'm saying it because

[01:23:46] that told Dumbledore

[01:23:48] he said after all this time

[01:23:50] meaning like that confirmed

[01:23:52] to Dumbledore you still love Lily

[01:23:54] and to you

[01:23:56] and to me

[01:23:58] but again it was such a whirlwind in the live read

[01:24:00] I was like oh my goodness

[01:24:02] I'm ready to still get it like you did

[01:24:06] but that's why I was saying there's something more to that

[01:24:08] that meant something to Dumbledore

[01:24:10] that's what I wrote here

[01:24:14] so that's proof he was still

[01:24:18] in love with Lily

[01:24:20] oh it's like always

[01:24:22] so like you're always in love

[01:24:24] and you're always gonna take

[01:24:26] Patronus

[01:24:28] but yeah yeah I think that would show the love

[01:24:30] so that the wedding stuff

[01:24:32] I can't I

[01:24:34] I have to figure it out

[01:24:36] okay

[01:24:40] you guys have any other questions in this chapter

[01:24:42] I'm sure you have a ton

[01:24:44] and you just want to try to figure stuff out

[01:24:50] yeah that's basically it

[01:24:52] but till the bag shot says

[01:24:54] that he was

[01:24:56] but it seems incredible that Dumbledore could ever

[01:24:58] have been friends with Gellert Grindelwald

[01:25:00] a little letter

[01:25:02] so you guys had a question about that

[01:25:04] what was the beginning part of the letter

[01:25:06] why did Snape keep that

[01:25:08] because of Lily's signature

[01:25:10] his with love or lots of love

[01:25:12] unless it was also his father's name

[01:25:18] I was on my little theories today

[01:25:20] because his dad feels like

[01:25:22] he means something

[01:25:24] he doesn't care about anything

[01:25:26] interesting

[01:25:28] but who doesn't care about anything

[01:25:30] and Grindelwald cares about stuff

[01:25:34] I thought you said he

[01:25:36] maybe it means nothing

[01:25:38] but maybe it means something

[01:25:40] not into women

[01:25:42] oh Grindelwald that came out after the books

[01:25:44] and it feels like she might have been making it up

[01:25:46] and also he might have just been by

[01:25:48] so

[01:25:50] maybe after

[01:25:52] his whole thing with Dumbledore

[01:25:54] he got a little wild in college

[01:25:56] and then

[01:25:58] he settles down with a nice woman

[01:26:00] to raise a not so nice son

[01:26:02] but I think I'm trying to think of people

[01:26:04] who

[01:26:06] could be his father

[01:26:08] I'm thinking of people like Nicholas Flamel

[01:26:10] where I'm like he's an alchemist

[01:26:12] but he doesn't care about anything

[01:26:14] is this because he's already like

[01:26:16] Nicholas Flamel, everyone's a child of Nicholas Flamel

[01:26:18] and this whole thing

[01:26:20] he's 900 and something years old

[01:26:22] that could be his dad

[01:26:24] and there aren't a lot of options

[01:26:26] but he was blonde, shoot

[01:26:28] I'm thinking of someone with black hair

[01:26:30] that would make sense right?

[01:26:32] unless his mom had black hair

[01:26:34] and dad didn't

[01:26:36] anyways maybe we never find out Snape's dad

[01:26:38] but it felt like there was enough

[01:26:40] hinting in there

[01:26:42] that I was trying to figure it out

[01:26:44] so that was just a no I had in here

[01:26:46] I like that

[01:26:48] by the end

[01:26:50] one of us

[01:26:52] or both of us were right

[01:26:54] when we said they have to be careful

[01:26:56] with that portrait of Phineas and I jealous

[01:26:58] because that's how Snape knew where they were

[01:27:00] yep I can't wait

[01:27:02] until when we're done we can go through all your predictions

[01:27:04] cause you guys

[01:27:06] oh my gosh I cannot even tell you how many

[01:27:08] well like I told Jen in the car

[01:27:10] I don't even know when I'm right

[01:27:12] because I throw so many out there

[01:27:14] that I'm like oh did I say that?

[01:27:16] oh yeah I guess I did

[01:27:18] I'm betting on this

[01:27:20] so I kind of forget what we even said

[01:27:22] but one of us said that

[01:27:24] and it's what happened

[01:27:26] and good thing Snape was good

[01:27:28] or they would have captured them right there

[01:27:30] so I thought that was interesting

[01:27:32] and I like that he got mad

[01:27:34] at him for using the M word

[01:27:36] yeah right yeah

[01:27:38] so do not use that word

[01:27:40] so I think that shows again more change

[01:27:42] in Snape

[01:27:44] growth might be small

[01:27:46] but it takes years

[01:27:48] but it wasn't Lily in my blood so of course

[01:27:50] whoa hey

[01:27:52] do not use that word

[01:27:54] oh my gosh

[01:27:56] it's ridiculous

[01:27:58] yeah Lily was

[01:28:00] but that's why Snape was so confused about the whole thing

[01:28:02] and that's why his worst memory

[01:28:04] so initially he's like about to call

[01:28:06] her like the M word

[01:28:08] and then he does

[01:28:10] in his schooling years that's why

[01:28:12] his worst memory is calling her that

[01:28:14] and then he gets adamant that

[01:28:16] you can't call anybody that after

[01:28:18] this whole situation

[01:28:20] when Phineas Nigelus is like

[01:28:22] oh you know Harry's with the mudblood

[01:28:24] excuse me only quoting what Phineas Nigelus said

[01:28:28] and Snape's like don't use that word because

[01:28:30] he seems to have learned at least a little bit of the lesson

[01:28:32] that's why he lost

[01:28:34] he doesn't want this bias to come in

[01:28:36] I forgot that that's how

[01:28:38] I just took that as again more growth

[01:28:40] even when Dumbledore isn't here to keep him accountable

[01:28:42] he's doing good things for them

[01:28:44] and even in

[01:28:46] privacy he's not willing to say that word

[01:28:48] and he's scolding other people

[01:28:50] so I thought that was nice

[01:28:54] hidden cavity behind

[01:28:56] he took the sword of Gryffindor

[01:28:58] is anything else in there now

[01:29:00] that was my last comment

[01:29:02] so last question before we go into the final

[01:29:04] really really quick

[01:29:06] do you have any final predictions

[01:29:08] for what's going to happen in the next chapter

[01:29:12] we only have an hour to get to Voldemort

[01:29:16] yeah so they have an hour

[01:29:18] so they probably have significantly less time now

[01:29:20] because they had to crawl back here to the tunnel

[01:29:22] they had to go to the top tower

[01:29:24] maybe I'm guessing like I don't know maybe like a half hour movie

[01:29:26] he's getting stagefine

[01:29:28] and then he has to

[01:29:30] and then he has to I feel like he's going

[01:29:32] to also relay this information

[01:29:34] to Ron Hermione somehow

[01:29:36] better make it a short story

[01:29:38] that's intense

[01:29:40] yeah you're right

[01:29:42] because they're not going to let him

[01:29:44] or he lies to them

[01:29:46] oh that's thanks last thing he does before he dies

[01:29:48] he lies to them and runs off to get killed

[01:29:50] this is actually a fascinating question

[01:29:52] what do you think is Harry's personality

[01:29:54] what would he do

[01:29:56] I think you're thinking literally

[01:29:58] right now and maybe Dumbledore

[01:30:00] would want him to do

[01:30:02] maybe would want him to go talk to his friends about this

[01:30:04] he never talks about anyone

[01:30:06] as far as Harry do you think

[01:30:08] he's just not going to talk to anybody

[01:30:10] he's just going to go

[01:30:12] he's going to lie

[01:30:14] I think he might be willing to lie

[01:30:16] just to take action

[01:30:18] and then go be noble

[01:30:20] because that's always what he did

[01:30:22] but then Ron and Hermione always followed

[01:30:24] so that's why I know

[01:30:26] have we seen him willing to die before

[01:30:28] indirectly

[01:30:30] yeah and I think he will

[01:30:32] will he trust Dumbledore

[01:30:34] the part I don't understand

[01:30:36] you know what

[01:30:38] I think

[01:30:40] I'm trying to put myself in Harry's mind

[01:30:42] I think he'll be upset

[01:30:44] at Dumbledore now

[01:30:46] and that will cause him to rebel

[01:30:48] slightly against Dumbledore

[01:30:50] and he will go and try to defeat

[01:30:52] Voldemort

[01:30:54] and he will not die willingly

[01:30:56] Harry

[01:30:58] I think he will be annoyed

[01:31:00] because he will feel like the fattened pig

[01:31:02] off to the slaughter

[01:31:04] and say

[01:31:06] Dumbledore has manipulated me

[01:31:08] and that is not fair, that is unreasonable

[01:31:10] I think he'll be upset

[01:31:12] because he's been so ready to be upset

[01:31:14] with Dumbledore so many times

[01:31:16] and he's grown in trust

[01:31:18] but I think this is going to be a pretty big blow

[01:31:20] in the other direction

[01:31:22] I think he'll be upset after this

[01:31:24] because that's how I felt after reading it

[01:31:26] in a blur the first time in the live read

[01:31:28] after reading it again

[01:31:30] I'm trying to find hopeful things

[01:31:32] and my initial reaction was

[01:31:34] annoyed at Dumbledore

[01:31:36] and I think Harry

[01:31:38] sleep deprived

[01:31:40] after all this time he always had to die

[01:31:42] and I think he's just going to say

[01:31:44] I don't

[01:31:46] you know

[01:31:48] there is another way I'll find it

[01:31:50] he's got to find that other way

[01:31:52] in about 70 pages

[01:31:54] I'm like I don't know how he's going to do it

[01:31:56] but he might be like trying to get other people inside

[01:31:58] let's gather once again

[01:32:00] you go stab this

[01:32:02] let's put the basilisk things on the end of arrows

[01:32:04] and then let's like

[01:32:06] you distract over here

[01:32:08] he might actually come up with a plan

[01:32:10] trying to defeat Dumbledore

[01:32:12] and then ultimately

[01:32:14] is Harry the planner?

[01:32:16] maybe the question is

[01:32:18] will he tell Hermione and Ron

[01:32:20] I think he will

[01:32:22] and they'll make him come up with a plan

[01:32:24] or no

[01:32:26] he doesn't like telling stories

[01:32:28] like no time to explain

[01:32:30] but we've got to do this

[01:32:32] but then I wonder if he just said Snape was on our side

[01:32:34] this whole time

[01:32:36] and Ron will say

[01:32:38] what's wrong with you mate

[01:32:40] that doesn't make any sense

[01:32:42] maybe he pushes them in the pensive

[01:32:46] and then he goes

[01:32:48] I thought that would have been really interesting to have all three of their domes up in there

[01:32:50] and they can

[01:32:52] share the memory

[01:32:54] and how long does it take

[01:32:56] no it's not instant

[01:32:58] I don't know

[01:33:00] I am hoping that Harry does it nobly

[01:33:02] and kind of says

[01:33:04] I will go sacrifice myself

[01:33:06] he has to do two things

[01:33:08] maybe that's it

[01:33:10] Ron, Hermione

[01:33:12] you need to kill Nagini

[01:33:14] I will distract Voldemort

[01:33:16] and then maybe he doesn't tell them

[01:33:18] what he has to do

[01:33:20] but he says with confidence

[01:33:22] and then they believe him

[01:33:24] that's what I am thinking

[01:33:28] good predictions

[01:33:30] but I am going to say there is a battle coming

[01:33:32] another battle

[01:33:34] another battle

[01:33:36] but maybe

[01:33:38] just

[01:33:40] Harry and Voldemort

[01:33:42] maybe Ron and Hermione

[01:33:44] or maybe the battle is not over

[01:33:46] and it's still raging

[01:33:48] and then they are going to mesh to

[01:33:50] no the battle stopped because they said one hour

[01:33:52] what's the time

[01:33:54] you got to know what the clock is at night

[01:33:56] they have like 5 minutes left

[01:33:58] they have 15

[01:34:00] but I think Voldemort has to give him

[01:34:02] a little bit of a

[01:34:04] overtime

[01:34:06] and then it's 5 minutes guys

[01:34:08] Voldemort comes on the last Peter

[01:34:10] 5 minute warning Harry

[01:34:12] your 5 minute warning

[01:34:14] yeah

[01:34:16] that's what I am thinking

[01:34:18] alright interesting

[01:34:20] what's your favorite character

[01:34:22] in these 2 chapters

[01:34:24] favorite moment in Hot Tamale

[01:34:26] I like learning about Snape's

[01:34:28] background so that's the whole chapter

[01:34:30] it's weird to give Snape

[01:34:32] that favorite character

[01:34:34] but I kind of want to give it to him here

[01:34:36] he just makes him so in depth

[01:34:38] again I love literature

[01:34:40] and books and Snape is just such a complex character

[01:34:42] he's one of those echelons of characters

[01:34:44] because you hate him

[01:34:46] you guys were happy when he died

[01:34:48] like a lot more confused

[01:34:50] a lot more confused

[01:34:52] so I like that

[01:34:54] yeah I'm trying to

[01:34:56] think what the favorite moment is

[01:34:58] not a lot

[01:35:00] to go on here

[01:35:02] I think it's almost my favorite

[01:35:04] moment and I'll give

[01:35:06] Hot Tamale

[01:35:08] to Luna

[01:35:10] because it felt like Harry was

[01:35:12] about to literally

[01:35:14] give up everything

[01:35:16] and when Luna came in

[01:35:18] she was able to

[01:35:20] her aloofness in normal life

[01:35:22] applies to battles as well

[01:35:24] and she was just like come on Harry you can't give up

[01:35:26] and it just sounded so sweet

[01:35:28] and so like

[01:35:30] we're gonna get through this

[01:35:32] and that encouragement I think went really really far

[01:35:34] because it

[01:35:36] not only did she save Harry with some Patronus action

[01:35:38] but emotionally I think gave a good nudge

[01:35:40] so that I think

[01:35:42] I won't say it's my favorite moment

[01:35:44] so favorite moment somewhere in

[01:35:46] Snape's memories

[01:35:48] just reading all that

[01:35:50] it's like the whole chapter was my favorite moment

[01:35:52] because I can't stop it's like

[01:35:54] crazy all of the information

[01:35:56] packed in there and it just changes

[01:35:58] the whole dynamic

[01:36:00] and it was just like emotionally charged

[01:36:02] I'm like why am I crying and I don't even know what the moment is

[01:36:04] all I know is this is important

[01:36:06] and it's big and everything changed

[01:36:08] so it's like

[01:36:10] I feel like the whole chapter was my favorite moment

[01:36:12] it's such a good one

[01:36:14] it's such an information dump but it's so much information

[01:36:16] now I feel like I'm mad at Dumbledore a little bit

[01:36:18] I can't quite give it to him

[01:36:20] but it feels so strange giving it to Snape

[01:36:22] yeah I know it's weird

[01:36:24] it's a weird one

[01:36:26] Luna's a good one

[01:36:28] Luna's a hot tamale, Lily?

[01:36:30] yeah I do like

[01:36:32] the silver dough

[01:36:34] there you go

[01:36:36] I think I can give it to Snape

[01:36:38] that's so ridiculous though

[01:36:40] I cannot tell you

[01:36:42] when you were mentioning that

[01:36:44] I think you like throughout

[01:36:46] this one too, this one prediction

[01:36:48] we were going over the horcruxes

[01:36:50] and then all of a sudden out of nowhere

[01:36:52] you're like I don't know

[01:36:54] Harry's a horcrux and I remember sitting here

[01:36:56] being like sweating bullets

[01:36:58] when you said that

[01:37:00] everyone on chat was like how did you keep a straight face

[01:37:02] when she said that

[01:37:04] I don't know I always think I'm crazy

[01:37:06] because the two of you can't say anything

[01:37:08] they don't make any faces

[01:37:10] I know we're going to be good

[01:37:12] well after the first hiccup

[01:37:14] oh yeah

[01:37:16] after Peter Pettigrew

[01:37:18] well also

[01:37:20] they both made faces about the

[01:37:22] polyjuice with

[01:37:24] Crouch Jr

[01:37:26] yeah yeah yeah interesting

[01:37:28] that was the only other time that I was like

[01:37:30] did we just nail that

[01:37:32] we looked at each other and were like

[01:37:34] okay

[01:37:36] that was great

[01:37:38] wait who did you give House Cup to

[01:37:40] I didn't do anything you guys were busy talking

[01:37:42] are you still thinking

[01:37:44] or do you know what are you thinking

[01:37:46] my house cup

[01:37:48] and House Molly and favorite Molly

[01:37:50] I think Snape I don't know

[01:37:52] and like Lily I think would be like

[01:37:54] Hot Tamale

[01:37:56] slash the Silver Dough

[01:37:58] I like your Luna thing though

[01:38:00] too

[01:38:02] and then

[01:38:04] well even Hermione with the little

[01:38:06] flas thing because otherwise

[01:38:08] wick thinking that would have

[01:38:10] been a waste

[01:38:12] and she didn't even see all the

[01:38:14] Penseev stuff with Dumbledore with Harry

[01:38:16] and she just knew like she was just

[01:38:18] ready she's doing

[01:38:20] she was paying attention in

[01:38:22] that was a great moment

[01:38:24] so supportive

[01:38:26] you need Hermione on your side

[01:38:28] yeah so that's why I can't picture them

[01:38:30] separating

[01:38:32] um

[01:38:34] yeah and then I don't know

[01:38:36] favorite moment was just learning that

[01:38:38] I was right

[01:38:40] that was none of that

[01:38:42] no that Snape was actually

[01:38:44] somewhat good because I kept saying this

[01:38:46] whole time I was just like

[01:38:48] I still can't fully believe it

[01:38:50] and like Dumbledore

[01:38:52] I know

[01:38:54] he trusted him

[01:38:56] but he wouldn't tell anyone

[01:38:58] why so like I knew I had to be something

[01:39:00] you've been holding on to that

[01:39:02] so

[01:39:04] but he also wouldn't tell Snape everything

[01:39:06] that's why it's so weird and that's why

[01:39:08] it feels weird to give him

[01:39:10] House Cup because

[01:39:12] Dumbledore House Cup

[01:39:14] no no Snape just because

[01:39:16] he did a lot and he

[01:39:18] saved Harry

[01:39:20] in some ways and

[01:39:22] he sacrificed a lot though too

[01:39:24] yeah he did and that's why people

[01:39:26] in the Southern house think Dumbledore is

[01:39:28] manipulative so now I get it

[01:39:30] like Tony

[01:39:32] yeah

[01:39:34] exactly nice

[01:39:36] um

[01:39:38] my favorite moment was because

[01:39:40] this is different in the movies and the books

[01:39:42] and I love how quick Jin

[01:39:44] you picked up on why Snape

[01:39:46] said look at me

[01:39:48] because that goes over a lot of people's head

[01:39:50] it goes over so many people's head that in the movie

[01:39:52] they change the line

[01:39:54] and Snape goes look at me

[01:39:56] and then he looks at Harry

[01:39:58] and then his last line is

[01:40:00] you have your mother's eyes

[01:40:02] which Alan Rickman delivers it

[01:40:04] very powerfully but it's like

[01:40:06] they just laid it all out

[01:40:08] rather than this line which is more implicit

[01:40:10] but you picked up on that pretty quick because we were going through that

[01:40:12] and you're like oh you said that because

[01:40:14] you wanted to look at Lily's eyes one last time

[01:40:16] as soon as Dumbledore said

[01:40:18] that he has his mother's eyes you said

[01:40:20] that's why you wanted to look

[01:40:22] because you nailed it

[01:40:24] you think that?

[01:40:26] not in that moment I mean you said it before

[01:40:28] I could think it I don't know if I would have come up with it otherwise

[01:40:30] um maybe by the time I read it

[01:40:32] because people want to like you want to remember the last

[01:40:34] like something that you love

[01:40:36] or a last memory

[01:40:38] again it was a funny thing because

[01:40:40] it is sweet and also weird where I'm like

[01:40:42] oh

[01:40:44] I thought it was a Harry connection but then it's really just about

[01:40:46] Lily

[01:40:48] I think it was both

[01:40:50] we're gonna have long discussions on this after the podcast

[01:40:52] I promise

[01:40:54] because the

[01:40:56] Snape idea of him loving

[01:40:58] if he's possible of love or capable of love

[01:41:00] that he loved Lily did he love Harry

[01:41:02] is all love for debate in the Harry Potter community

[01:41:04] because when I first

[01:41:06] when we first read it I thought it was Lily

[01:41:08] but then when I read it over again I was like no

[01:41:10] I don't think it was just Lily

[01:41:12] yeah on your second read through

[01:41:14] it was like kind of like

[01:41:16] like look at me

[01:41:18] because like I was

[01:41:20] I don't know like I was your protector

[01:41:22] also yeah

[01:41:24] and I want you

[01:41:26] I want you to see me as

[01:41:28] like

[01:41:30] I don't know I also thought maybe

[01:41:32] it was like one more connection they can

[01:41:34] have and then when he would

[01:41:36] Harry would look at the

[01:41:38] memories

[01:41:40] he could then like

[01:41:42] see like that good I don't know

[01:41:44] the connection at the end where it wasn't

[01:41:46] like hatred towards him it was just

[01:41:48] like a loving

[01:41:50] last because I mean he doesn't want

[01:41:52] that who doesn't want someone to like you know not

[01:41:54] remember me for my fault but like

[01:41:56] remember me like Harry look at me remember

[01:41:58] me for this moment when I like

[01:42:00] you know sack yeah that's actually

[01:42:02] deeply profound I love that idea

[01:42:04] Jen usually it's not interpreted like

[01:42:06] that but that's like a new interpretation that I kind of heard that

[01:42:08] I kind of love that's great

[01:42:10] anyway

[01:42:12] well

[01:42:14] anyway thanks for joining us on our journey

[01:42:16] of Harry Potter and the first time readers almost done with

[01:42:18] the first time read crazy

[01:42:20] wow oh my gosh wow

[01:42:22] alright

[01:42:36] and we started watching

[01:42:38] Sherlock as Jen was just

[01:42:40] saying and

[01:42:42] we talked about it on one of the episodes

[01:42:44] and I don't know if you remember because

[01:42:46] I don't remember what it was but I know

[01:42:48] we mentioned it yeah and we spoiled

[01:42:50] something

[01:42:52] I think we did

[01:42:54] and then it was coming up and I'm like

[01:42:56] this is great so then

[01:42:58] she was reacting to it raw

[01:43:00] and I was like oh we should have done a first time

[01:43:02] I love that